Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

amigacooke

amigacooke
Agony_Aunt said:
FD delivered on what they asked for funds for 10x over by now. Unless you think that 1.5 million raised should have lasted them for 10 years? The rest came from their own coffers and sales of DLCs and cosmetics. Things they also delivered on.

Meanwhile, CIG are still asking for handouts after close to 500 million.

That's a difference of over 300 times.
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If memory serves, Horizon was asking for money upfront with a large percentage of the content to come in the future. Odyssey was the first occasion that Frontier were going to deliver all the content at point of sale.

Then, as we know, plans changed.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Agony_Aunt said:
Bloomin heck.... the /r/sc mods have gone full jackboots

ZBZxBMi37094zeTNx2TFTTl4SzyRdnfoCjYCrdnBuuQ.png


That thread was getting massively upvoted.

Thankfully the brave mods were on hand to shut down all the negative opinions about the game!
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Ok I would love to know the rationale there. Didn't even seem that Chris-bashy many hours downstream.

Whatever was wrong with it, apparently there's nothing wrong with these memes / quotes though...

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/smn5rf
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/smn5rf/context_matters_meme_gallery/


9fbx3mwnudg81.jpg


Quavers has inspired them ;)
 

amigacooke

amigacooke
Agony_Aunt said:
And FD delivered. Odyssey similarly.
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Well I still haven't tried it, but I understand some folk think that CIG have delivered to a level as well.

The point I'm trying to clumsily make, is that if it is aceeptable for one developer to be able to change plans because of circumstances, then surely it's acepptable for all developers?

Unless of course 'plans change' is a fob off which in reality explains nothing useful.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
amigacooke {macOS} said:
If memory serves, Horizon was asking for money upfront with a large percentage of the content to come in the future. Odyssey was the first occasion that Frontier were going to deliver all the content at point of sale.

Then, as we know, plans changed.
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Horizons was delivered. EDO was delivered.
SC wasn't delivered. SQ42 wasn't delivered. Despite being announced for release in 2014 and each year after
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
amigacooke {macOS} said:
Well I still haven't tried it, but I understand some folk think that CIG have delivered to a level as well.

The point I'm trying to clumsily make, is that if it is aceeptable for one developer to be able to change plans because of circumstances, then surely it's acepptable for all developers?

Unless of course 'plans change' is a fob off which in reality explains nothing useful.
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I get where you're coming from...and yup, I agree ;)
 
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Ebob

E
Navigare Necesse Est said:
Horizons was delivered. EDO was delivered.
SC wasn't delivered. SQ42 wasn't delivered. Despite being announced for release in 2014 and each year after
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An Arx store and a thousand ship skins were also delivered! Nav beacons were also delivered! So much stuff delivered! Yet no ship interiors! Or any other meaningful space gameplay after Beyond!
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
Ebob said:
An Arx store and a thousand ship skins were also delivered! Nav beacons were also delivered! So much stuff delivered! Yet no ship interiors! Or any other meaningful space gameplay after Beyond!
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Meanwhile...back at the ranch. We got Xenothreat as well as Jumptown all over again to tie in with yet another free-fly ship sale marketing run event for the third consecutive month with absolutely zero new gameplay added, meaningful or otherwise...Oh, mustn't forget the coffee vendors ;)
 
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Intrepid3D

Intrepid3D
Some of these SC content creators just don't get it, this includes SaltEMike who has been advocating for the removal of the release view of the roadmap for some time making the same argument that CIG made when they did basically make it meaningless.

He also thinks the release view is a distraction because it makes people upset, and that's what i find so frustrating about these people, even SaltEMike has absolutely no interest in holding CIG to account for progress

SaltEMike quotes from the video.

The actual actions they are taking is quite positive, i think they are managing expectations properly for the first time ever.
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And this is the argument he has been making for some time, its the same argument CIG used in that we cannot be trusted to temper our expectations of anything on the roadmap being true.
I find it astonishing that people just don't expect CIG to deliver on anything, more than that it is our fault if we do and get upset when they don't, what? what is going on here????????

I heard they only hit 20% of the roadmap, a lot of people are posting this Erin video where he said the old roadmap was bad, this new one...were factering in all these things so we are pretty sure we will hit on these new roadmaps.
We were like Ok Erin We Believe You.............................. and i think a lot of the issue is accountability, that's the one that blows my mind, i'm like the whole existence of CIG is so they don't have to be accountable for anything and "we can put it out when we are ready" So like the "We can hold them accountable now".... you never could in the first place so what are you so upset about????????
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Again, what??? Is this guy happy for the game to continue in the same stagnant vain for another decade? And if it does whose fault is that??? what a ######### Moron!

Source: https://youtu.be/JlZL-ipGHBI?t=655
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
amigacooke {macOS} said:
The difference is by degree not in process.
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I am afraid we will still have to agree to disagree there.

The business models and processes are diametrically opposed: One is fully based on asking for money a decade+ before delivering any product (and counting). The other is overwhelmingly based on revenues obtained after releasing products.

One business willingly undertakes the full risk of its own work and makes it subject to the market scrutiny with any sales and reputational impact thereof. The other still manages to place all risk on their backers shoulders while avoids all that. Not just appels and oranges different, but mango and concrete level of difference.

And degree is indeed key. Even the proportion of pre-order revenue related to Elite franchise products during kickstarter, pre sales of Horizons or EDO compared to revenue of actual released products, is probably tiny compared to the 100% pre-order revenue handled by CIG.

amigacooke {macOS} said:
From my point of view, both asked for funds in 2012 for future products, neither of which have been fully delivered by 2022
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Well, that is a point of view indeed but it is probably a too simplistic one: The good news is that unlike CIG, FDEV will not ask you for funds (with a few exceptions) until they think the product is ready to release or relatively close (Horizons and Odyssey already released, or those who bought the base game after release in 2014). And even add in products at no extra cost (Beyond, Fleet Carriers). On the other hand CIG has released exactly Zero products. But has cashed in 400+ million. Hardly comparable.
 
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Intrepid3D said:
Some of these SC content creators just don't get it, this includes SaltEMike who has been advocating for the removal of the release view of the roadmap for some time making the same argument that CIG made when they did basically make it meaningless.

He also thinks the release view is a distraction because it makes people upset, and that's what i find so frustrating about these people, even SaltEMike has absolutely no interest in holding CIG to account for progress

SaltEMike quotes from the video.



And this is the argument he has been making for some time, its the same argument CIG used in that we cannot be trusted to temper our expectations of anything on the roadmap being true.
I find it astonishing that people just don't expect CIG to deliver on anything, more than that it is our fault if we do and get upset when they don't, what? what is going on here????????



Again, what??? I this guy happy for the game to continue in the same stagnant vain for another decade? And if it does whose fault is that??? what a ######### Moron!

Source: https://youtu.be/JlZL-ipGHBI?t=655
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Yeah the whole 'community can't be trusted with roadmaps' angle really has worked on some people. Has taken the spot light off the core underlying issue: Stuff not coming out of the pipes at volume. And the pipes themselves not seeming to lead anywhere that looks like game launch.

Lord knows how anyone but CIG should take the blame for that stuff. But some guys really are happy with the 'Dream game must take huge amount of time to make' logic. Ergo, the longer it takes, the better it's going to be...

No dev hell here. No sir. This is dev heaven, for sure...
 
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