To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?

[Jack Winter]

That might work.. An open PvE mode (with no limit on participants like the current PGs), and if you kill another commander then you can't login to the group for increasingly longer periods and finally you're autobanned from the group. I don't think it would be hard for FDev to keep track of PvP kills. So an open mode for unlimited PvP, an open PvE (which actively discourages PvP combat) and solo. Some mechanism could be added for consensual PvP in the PvE mode.

Some other approach would have to be invented to deal with other griefers like pad campers, rammers, suicidewinders, etc. Also a question is how many throwaway accounts our seal clubbing colleagues got from the giveaway..

Edit: And of course keep the existing PGs for those that prefer..

Edit2: That would actually take care of the rammers over time too.. Make a mistake shooting or ramming another player and you get a cooldown period, but persist and you can't partake in the PvE mode any longer.

 

[Misty_Dark]

It will NOT discourage ganking. A meta FDL can outfly ATR.

The only deterrent against non-consensual PvP is an absolute one. And as such, the only sensible option is a separate mode that bans CMDR on CMDR combat of any form and makes evading that restriction a permaban-worthy non-appealable (=zero-tolerance) offense.

However, evidence gathering of a neutral way requires a client-server netcode solution. Thus such a mode needs concessions that make this mode non-abusable.

Really? What is stopping us from having ATR FDL? and that is even before we get into that ATR can already cheat...

But please explain how this magical PVE only game mode would work, how would you 100% stop players from ganking other players? including collisions. without destroying the game in the process.

 

[Ettanin]

But please explain how this magical PVE only game mode would work, how would you 100% stop players from ganking other players? including collisions. without destroying the game in the process.

Look at the other 200 pages of suggestions. I won't repeat myself.

 

[Misty_Dark]

Look at the other 200 pages of suggestions. I won't repeat myself.

So basically you do not have this magical PvE only solution.... and if you had actually bothered to read and comprehend those 200 pages you refer to, you should already know this.... as this have also been covered there, like so many other suggestions... as there is no magical solution that will work for everyone.

We already know, that we would still have solo only players, that would still be solo only even if they could disable PvP. Just like we would have PvE only players that would have issues with how your suggested PvE only game mode would work, due to the changes needed to make it work reliably top protect against ganking.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

So basically you do not have this magical PvE only solution.... and if you had actually bothered to read and comprehend those 200 pages you refer to, you should already know this.... as this have also been covered there, like so many other suggestions... as there is no magical solution that will work for everyone.

We already know, that we would still have solo only players, that would still be solo only even if they could disable PvP. Just like we would have PvE only players that would have issues with how your suggested PvE only game mode would work, due to the changes needed to make it work reliably top protect against ganking.

Basically ramming is so hard to pull consistently trick, that we are talking pretty marginal problem. Especially when best rammers happen to be also most hard to manouver kind of ships. Something like my Cutter can of course ram pretty hard. But lining it up to ram manouver against more agile target is painfully hard.

 

[Brrokk]

So basically you do not have this magical PvE only solution.... and if you had actually bothered to read and comprehend those 200 pages you refer to, you should already know this.... as this have also been covered there, like so many other suggestions... as there is no magical solution that will work for everyone.

We already know, that we would still have solo only players, that would still be solo only even if they could disable PvP. Just like we would have PvE only players that would have issues with how your suggested PvE only game mode would work, due to the changes needed to make it work reliably top protect against ganking.

This still going? To summarise, not many people liked the idea of a PvP flag in Open, but some plausible solutions for an Open-PvE mode have been advanced. Note that the game already tracks the origin of all damage, so that mission rewards, bounties and notoriety can be assigned. The most common suggestions fall into two categories:
1. A mode in which the damage source is checked and if it's from a player it's cancelled. This could include ramming.
2. A mode with the same rules as Open but which you get excluded from, either permanently or temporarily, if you damage another player.

I'm pretty fed up with this debate as modes+block provide almost the same options IMO. I'm fairly sure that FD will get around to one of these ideas eventually because it's the way all multi-player games go. I just hope they don't choose the flag in Open.

 

[Misty_Dark]

This still going? To summarise, not many people liked the idea of a PvP flag in Open, but some plausible solutions for an Open-PvE mode have been advanced. Note that the game already tracks the origin of all damage, so that mission rewards, bounties and notoriety can be assigned. The most common suggestions fall into two categories:
1. A mode in which the damage source is checked and if it's from a player it's cancelled. This could include ramming.
2. A mode with the same rules as Open but which you get excluded from, either permanently or temporarily, if you damage another player.

I'm pretty fed up with this debate as modes+block provide almost the same options IMO. I'm fairly sure that FD will get around to one of these ideas eventually because it's the way all multi-player games go. I just hope they don't choose the flag in Open.

and with the wonky physics we already have, #1 opens up to us having ships act as bouncy castles... and then there is the issue with simply pushing other players around, with no damage dealt, then this could be just another way to grief players, and if go down the route where we cannot push around other players, then we will most likely experience extremely strange behaviour, and what about pad blockers, or mail slot blockers, if we can't even push them out of the way? We can just observe how wonky the physics already works in the game, by observing how SRV's can been flung into orbit by simply trying to ride ontop of ships moving up. and we end up in the the pit of issues with having no collisions at all between players... would not disturb anyone if we could be boosting through other players ships at full speed...

#2 looks alot like how some games do shadow banning of cheaters. and this comes with it's pit of issues to deal with.


but you are correct, modes+block offers a decent balance and everyone can choose to use any of these available options to tailor their experience to their best fit their own preference.


I like that you, me and everyone else, can choose who we want to allow to play with us, but we cannot force anyone to play with us, and at any time, for whatever reason, anyone can change their mind about who they want to allow to play with them, by choosing game mode and/or adding/removing players from their block list.

 

[Mercury7]

Meh... what the hell...

If you want to PvP against me, be good. If you want to fly 5 ships against me? Good luck! I'm happy to self-destruct.

There is a galaxy of difference between organic PvP, and just killing a human player because they exist. The latter are toxic players and for that there should be a ban list.

One problem I have is even stock, a smaller vessel is no match for a larger vessel. It doesn't even have good defensive capability even if maxed out. System sec I'm guessing is still too slow and under-powered?

Don't think I'm some light-weight. I battle Anacondas in my engineered Mk.III Cobra, but it can still be insufficiently protected. Looking at raw shield strength, I don't know how smaller vessels can do it.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

the difficulty here is.... they can't and neither should they really. as it is there are pretty big and logically strange penalties put on large vessels against small ones because "videogame" to a point Indo get it but it equally it is a bit lame. ultimately it is because I am not a fan of MMOs. I was gonna back ED regardless, I have a long history with the franchise, elite is my GOAT and likely will always be ...... but I was so happy to hear David braben say at the start he was not really interested in making an MMO..... alas they made an MMO.
elite is not my game and besides that ship has long since sailed but I would FAR more have had elite as a single player game with proper NPC's like say xwing Vs tie fighter but with optional ability to play with a pool of friends. PG is elites approximation of that but it does still come. with the design choices forced via ED being a MMO , such as being unable to destruct anything in the game or interact with much, or build bases etc or having time compression (which was cool in the other games) (the plan was to be able to blow up space stations until DB realised that if they did that they would be massachred.

I went off on a tangent .... TLDR imo the main problem with the balance in the game is the other players
warts and all tho I have put 2500+, hrs into the game so I guess FD must have got something right

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Meh... what the hell...

If you want to PvP against me, be good. If you want to fly 5 ships against me? Good luck! I'm happy to self-destruct.

There is a galaxy of difference between organic PvP, and just killing a human player because they exist. The latter are toxic players and for that there should be a ban list.

One problem I have is even stock, a smaller vessel is no match for a larger vessel. It doesn't even have good defensive capability even if maxed out. System sec I'm guessing is still too slow and under-powered?

Don't think I'm some light-weight. I battle Anacondas in my engineered Mk.III Cobra, but it can still be insufficiently protected. Looking at raw shield strength, I don't know how smaller vessels can do it.

Depends on your flying skills. Properly engineered small vessel can be very hard target to catch. You don't need huge defensive capabilities if enemy cannot hit you much. Where as when you fly big ship, well most of shots tend to hit you...There are lots of videos where you see somebody trolling gankers with small agile&fast ship.

 

[PM]

Depends on your flying skills

This statement need to add on game poster

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Depends on your flying skills. Properly engineered small vessel can be very hard target to catch. You don't need huge defensive capabilities if enemy cannot hit you much. Where as when you fly big ship, well most of shots tend to hit you...There are lots of videos where you see somebody trolling gankers with small agile&fast ship.

hard to hit for sure.... but even 1 hit from a huge weapon should be game over really in a small ship no matter how engineered.

but IF it was like that it would make it even easier for grief....... erm purple haired emergent content providers

I do keep meaning to go into open with a super fast ship and try my hand and defending trade ships in a a CG by interdicting wanted ships. worse case scenario I lose.an eagle or something.

 

[GreySix]

My answer to this question is still no.

If I want PvP, I'll play in Open.

If I want permanent PvP, I'll play Star Citizen.

 

[SergMx]

My answer to this question is still no.

If I want PvP, I'll play in Open.

If I want permanent PvP, I'll play Star Citizen.

And if you want a team game on the same ship (multicrew) you go where?

 

[St0rmFury]

And if you want a team game on the same ship (multicrew) you go where?

Now I don't play SC, but a number of members from my discord does and they say the bigger ships (those usually bought with cash) need a team of players to function effectively. The turrets are not AI controlled like in ED, someone has to man them.

 

[Dragsham]

Mindless ganking shouldn't be possible...leastways repeatedly. At some point a switch is auto flicked and they should end up in uninhabited space with little or no chance of ever having peace, even momentarily, in an inhabited system.
Cos thats how it should be. Then they probably wouldn't do it after resetting. Because it would serve no purpose other than repeated exile.
That's that taken care of.
Pvp as regards wings and bgs pp etc now that's a different ballgame.
Simply put its fair to say that if pvp was a tool, rather than just mindless, it would be seen as a more respected occupation.
As it stands its a dirty word and soloists will have none of it.
As the game stands atm l agree with them. Mindless ganking just taints the whole subject.
I love pvp.
But it should be interwoven in such a way, that it fits in with elites narrative. We advocates of open only mmo have no leverage.
Nothing to table that would entice anyone to alter elites modes.
I wish it were different.

o7

 

[SexyCat]

I say make no other change to the game other than Open-only and allow us to hire henchmen/mercenary ships to protect us as we fly around; effective mercenaries.

Oh, and get rid of instance blocking; just keep chat blocking.

 

[Rebel Yell]

ED is much more solo player friendly, and I hope it will stay that way.

Yeah, let's make it a solo game... I hope they remove hostile NPCs too, so I couldn't be worried to fall asleep between a screenshot and a cargo haul at a CG.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Mindless ganking shouldn't be possible...leastways repeatedly. At some point a switch is auto flicked and they should end up in uninhabited space with little or no chance of ever having peace, even momentarily, in an inhabited system.
Cos thats how it should be. Then they probably wouldn't do it after resetting. Because it would serve no purpose other than repeated exile.
That's that taken care of.

I doubt that those who like to gank would agree - and some of those who enjoy adversely affecting the gameplay of others would quickly work out the meta for being able to cause maximum inconvenience for minimum effort with a freshly reset account.

Pvp as regards wings and bgs pp etc now that's a different ballgame.

It is, for those who enjoy PvP - however it's still PvP - and most players don't get involved in PvP, in a game where no player needs to get involved in PvP.

Simply put its fair to say that if pvp was a tool, rather than just mindless, it would be seen as a more respected occupation.

While PvP is possible, ganking is also possible.

As it stands its a dirty word and soloists will have none of it.
As the game stands atm l agree with them. Mindless ganking just taints the whole subject.

Those who eschew PvP bought a game where PvP is an optional extra that no player needs to engage in - and, according to the illuminating stats from Artie earlier in the thread, most players don't engage in it.

Whether PvP attacks are "mindless ganking", or not, they're still PvP - and this game does not force players engaging in any game feature (apart from CQC, but that's out of game) to play among those who wish to engage them in PvP.

I love pvp.

.... and most players don't engage in it, in this game.

But it should be interwoven in such a way, that it fits in with elites narrative. We advocates of open only mmo have no leverage.
Nothing to table that would entice anyone to alter elites modes.
I wish it were different.

o7

The "advocates of open only mmo" bought the same game as everyone else, on the same terms, i.e. three game modes and a single galaxy that every player affects.

 

[Brrokk]

258 pages... necro... why???