To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?

[Ettanin]

The thing is that: because Frontier will do nothing about PK'ers / gankers, it is SAFER for the newbs to play Group Play and find someone in the ED Discord who is safe and willing to show them the ropes, versus playing in Open where they are getting continuously ganked / suckered into being a mining slave (remember that a while back?), getting frustrated and turned off from their effort being for naught, and then (rightfully) telling others who are wondering about the game how much it sucks...

And the cycle continues. And you wonder why everyone is leaving to solo and questions like the one this very topic has are asked?

Frontier doesn't give the tools for a cooperative framework in-game. We have tools to excise unwanted players from our sphere of gameplay, but no in-game tools to find desired players for spontaneous cooperative play.

 

[ethelred]

The thing is that: because Frontier will do nothing about PK'ers / gankers, it is SAFER for the newbs to play Group Play and find someone in the ED Discord who is safe and willing to show them the ropes, versus playing in Open where they are getting continuously ganked / suckered into being a mining slave (remember that a while back?), getting frustrated and turned off from their effort being for naught, and then (rightfully) telling others who are wondering about the game how much it sucks...

We're back to this hopeless n00b meme where as soon as they leave n00b space they are instantly and continuously destroyed by an always alert, merciless and unavoidable enemy.

This poor CMDR never again loads are game which is Now Officially Dying And Open Is Empty.

I don't think these types of CMDRs exist in any large quantities, why we haven't had a "I've been murdered" thread for ages - therefore using my anecdotal evidence in the same way means that this doesn't happen frequently.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I don't think these types of CMDRs exist in any large quantities, why we haven't had a "I've been murdered" thread for ages - therefore using my anecdotal evidence in the same way means that this doesn't happen frequently.

The Inara stats, i.e. few players engage in PvP, seem to support the assertion. What the stats didn't indicate was the mode split of players over the same period.

Whether or not it happens frequently is not of particular relevance - as there's no obligation on any player to be the target of those who enjoy PvP - if it is not "fun" for the target then the player who may otherwise have been a target can choose not to play with those who would target them. That this may reduce the fun of those who want to target them is of little importance - as they don't seem to care whether their targets have any fun.

 

[wrr377]

We're back to this hopeless n00b meme where as soon as they leave n00b space they are instantly and continuously destroyed by an always alert, merciless and unavoidable enemy.

This poor CMDR never again loads are game which is Now Officially Dying And Open Is Empty.

I don't think these types of CMDRs exist in any large quantities, why we haven't had a "I've been murdered" thread for ages - therefore using my anecdotal evidence in the same way means that this doesn't happen frequently.

Spoken like a true ganker.

I worked for a well-known amusement park back in the late 90's, and in any type of service industry, there exists what is known as "The Rule of 10", which goes something like this: for each dissatisfied customer, they will tell at least ten people they know / meet, and each of those people will tell AT LEAST 10 more people that they each meet, and so on... In this age of social media and worldwide information, that should be changed to a Rule of 1000 or more...

It would be REALLY simple for Frontier to introduce rules where: If a player tried to interdict any "Clean" player, as soon as they click to start the interdiction, they get forced back to the main menu, then like other games (like GTA V does, and Capcom does for rage quitters in Street Fighter) do for their online components, the PK'ers / cheaters / hackers get sent to a separate area / server where it is only others to play against / with. Then, they could have all the PK'ing / ganking they want with other like-minded players, while the honest players get to cooperate and have productive game times.

 

[PM]

It would be REALLY simple for Frontier to introduce rules where: If a player tried to interdict any "Clean" player, as soon as they click to start the interdiction, they get forced back to the main menu, then like other games (like GTA V does, and Capcom does for rage quitters in Street Fighter) do for their online components, the PK'ers / cheaters / hackers get sent to a separate area / server where it is only others to play against / with. Then, they could have all the PK'ing / ganking they want with other like-minded players, while the honest players get to cooperate and have productive game times.

it's easier to learn a couple of tricks and stay alive than to wait for some global changes from the devs. the game is not a year or two, so everything is clear with the development of this product.

 

[wrr377]

The Inara stats, i.e. few players engage in PvP, seem to support the assertion. What the stats didn't indicate was the mode split of players over the same period.

Whether or not it happens frequently is not of particular relevance - as there's no obligation on any player to be the target of those who enjoy PvP - if it is not "fun" for the target then the player who may otherwise have been a target can choose not to play with those who would target them. That this may reduce the fun of those who want to target them is of little importance - as they don't seem to care whether their targets have any fun.

Anyone can go to Inara and see that anywhere players congregate, ie CG's, station rescues, and major systems for engineering or such, the ganking / murder threat is ALWAYS high. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that once newbs head to these necessary / important areas / systems, they get ganked if they're in Open, and usually by fully-engineered PK'ers.

As also pointed out, PK'ing / ganking is not fun for both parties, especially when one party has no experience or chance to stand on even ground with the ganker....

As opposed to in my time playing the game (almost 2600 hours), I have used Group Play to tutor and teach new players (and sometimes show some tricks to veterans) without worrying about our time getting interrupted by jerkoffs who need to "compensate" for their "shortcomings" by feeling oh-so-powerful and "big" by destroying people who can't fight back...

There's a word for that: bullying.

Frontier really didn't even care about the mining slavery until it got into the news and spread like wildfire, causing lots of negative feedback and views of the games, potentially ruining sales / players - THEN they stepped in and did something about it. The Fuel Rats and affiliated commanders had even mounted a rescue mission with fleet carriers to dock all the slave players and get them out of the system... and Frontier ignored all of this until word got out and started affecting their bottom line, just like the Odyssey release destroyed their entire additional player base in two months (according to Steam Charts figures of active players), as well as dropped their stock...

 

[Robert Maynard]

it's easier to learn a couple of tricks and stay alive than to wait for some global changes from the devs.

.... if one wants to change the way one approaches the game, i.e. ship and outfit, to accommodate those who one does not find to be fun to play with. For some the frisson of the ganker mini-game is enjoyable - for some others it's a tedious and predictable waste of limited game time.

 

[ethelred]

Spoken like a true ganker.

I worked for a well-known amusement park back in the late 90's, and in any type of service industry, there exists what is known as "The Rule of 10", which goes something like this: for each dissatisfied customer, they will tell at least ten people they know / meet, and each of those people will tell AT LEAST 10 more people that they each meet, and so on... In this age of social media and worldwide information, that should be changed to a Rule of 1000 or more...

It would be REALLY simple for Frontier to introduce rules where: If a player tried to interdict any "Clean" player, as soon as they click to start the interdiction, they get forced back to the main menu, then like other games (like GTA V does, and Capcom does for rage quitters in Street Fighter) do for their online components, the PK'ers / cheaters / hackers get sent to a separate area / server where it is only others to play against / with. Then, they could have all the PK'ing / ganking they want with other like-minded players, while the honest players get to cooperate and have productive game times.

You must be new. I had a bet with myself to see if your first action would call me a ganker and you didn't disappoint.

As Robert will attest, we all bought the game knowing that Open means you can be attacked by any CMDR at any time, for any reason or none.

FDEV aren't going to change the modes, the modes are good.

Choose the right mode. The one part of what you say I do agree with - the majority of CMDRs you meet either in game or elsewhere will be more than happy to help you improve your flying in whatever mode - it must be your choice to where you fly though.

 

[wrr377]

it's easier to learn a couple of tricks and stay alive than to wait for some global changes from the devs.

Those "tricks" are to simply not play the game in the mode that allows gankers to destroy your fun: Solo or Group Play.

Problem solved.

Furthermore, they wouldn't even need to make new servers, just modify the same rules they already have in place to determine who you can encounter when playing Open vs Solo or Group Play. Each mode doesn't have it's own server - it only has "Encounter Rules" set for each player, based on the mode they choose, and other players they encounter or add to their Group Play session, which is not hosted by the individual player, but is a "session instance" run by the server, based on the rules allowed for those playing within the Group Play session. There have been many times I've logged off from my Group Play session, but the rest of the players can still keep doing their own thing. They can also join my "group session" without me being online, and then anyone in my group friends list can join the session to play with them, but ONLY those on my friend's list.

The only actual additional programming they would have to do was the sequence for the attempted ganking of a "Clean" player and getting kicked to the main menu. The permanent gankers-only encounter would just be a new "encounter rule" they add in the background, based off of the current encounter rules already in place for the various game modes.

 

[Robert Maynard]

As Robert will attest, we all bought the game knowing that Open means you can be attacked by any CMDR at any time, for any reason or none.

Indeed.

FDEV aren't going to change the modes, the modes are good.

Quite.

Choose the right mode. The one part of what you say I do agree with - the majority of CMDRs you meet either in game or elsewhere will be more than happy to help you improve your flying in whatever mode - it must be your choice to where you fly though.

Exactly.

 

[SergMx]

How would you do that practically?
They use very similar tools and methods so I'm not sure it could actually be done.
I still think shifting the interdiction back in favour of the interdictee would have the most effect.

I'm not saying it will completely remove the gankers, but it should weaken their position.

For example, the pirates had boarding hooks and displayed a black flag when attacked.
I.e. if you haven't posted that you're a pirate and don't have a cargo hatch, hacker drones, etc. then after killing a clean one you have a one billion fine.

As for the interdict, I made a suggestion a long time ago to make a module for interception interference. In terms of classes ...

 

[wrr377]

You must be new. I had a bet with myself to see if your first action would call me a ganker and you didn't disappoint.

As Robert will attest, we all bought the game knowing that Open means you can be attacked by any CMDR at any time, for any reason or none.

FDEV aren't going to change the modes, the modes are good.

Choose the right mode. The one part of what you say I do agree with - the majority of CMDRs you meet either in game or elsewhere will be more than happy to help you improve your flying in whatever mode - it must be your choice to where you fly though.

~2600 hours, and I'm "new" to ED? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigt.... I am new to the Elite game series, yes, but not this game, which AFAIK, is the first online-centric Elite.

You are a ganker, because only gankers work as hard as you have in this thread to promote "Open" as some bastion of wholesomeness and safety. You further downplay what the actual numbers support, gaslighting the evidence - only one reason to try to convince players to play in Open when they can have an actual productive, fun, co-op ONLY time in Group Play (where they can also ban PK'ers permanently): you're a ganker and want more targets.

Furthermore, Open is not explained ANYWHERE in the tutorials or the menu that other players can (and will) be able to kill you without your consent or desire for PvP. NONE of the game modes are really explained, so new people need to be given a proper rundown of the game modes (which I and other like-minded commanders will do). There are a LOT of other players who tell new people DO NOT play in Open unless you want to get killed or fight other real players (and have full engineering), because you'll be constantly set back and frustrated thanks to said players. I don't know how many players I helped learn how to productively and cooperatively enjoy their time in ED - WITHOUT the chance of getting ganked...

"I'm doing my part!"

Ganker.

 

[PM]

modify the same rules

I don't have issue with other players who want to destroy me it's just a challenge for me. So all is ok with rules for me.

Those "tricks" are to simply not play the game in the mode that allows gankers to destroy your fun: Solo or Group Play.

Problem solved.

I use high wake and diplomacy but agree it not so easy to type messages while a few ships trying to destroy you. So I'm still practicing in this.

 

[ianstrauss]

why not just have certain systems allow PVP like Lawless systems with certain benefits to it? For example, before you jump into a Lawless system, the system warns you that you are entering a PVP system and enter at your own risk. However, there should be benefits like mining in a Lawless system can be 100x more profitable than systems wherein PVP is disabled. That way there is risk vs rewards balance, plus PVP is consensual only to those who are bold enough to reap the rewards while in the danger zone. This will also legitimize the piracy, stealth and bounty hunting gameplay mechanics.

 

[SergMx]

I don't have issue with other players who want to destroy me it's just a challenge for me. So all is ok with rules for me.

It depends on what you're doing. Get a courier with a speed of 850 and you won't have any problems either ...

 

[Robert Maynard]

why not just have certain systems allow PVP like Lawless systems with certain benefits to it? For example, before you jump into a Lawless system, the system warns you that you are entering a PVP system and enter at your own risk. However, there should be benefits like mining in a Lawless system can be 100x more profitable than systems wherein PVP is disabled. That way there is risk vs rewards balance, plus PVP is consensual only to those who are bold enough to reap the rewards while in the danger zone. This will also legitimize the piracy, stealth and bounty hunting gameplay mechanics.

Given that systems can be entered in any game mode, the bonus would be applicable to all players, not just those in Open....

 

[Robert Maynard]

It depends on what you're doing. Get a courier with a speed of 850 and you won't have any problems either ...

It's not good for much else though.

 

[ianstrauss]

Given that systems can be entered in any game mode, the bonus would be applicable to all players, not just those in Open....

The suggestion was made in view of Open play only and a consideration to remove other game modes

 

[Robert Maynard]

The suggestion was made in view of Open play only and a consideration to remove other game modes

Given that, from the Inara stats posted earlier in the thread, less than 10% of players engage in PvP, what compelling reason would there be to remove the game modes other than Open?

The shared galaxy is the same in all game modes - the difference is the likelihood of meeting other players. Even in Open, particular CMDRs can be blocked, effectively removing them from ones gameplay.

 

[ianstrauss]

Given that, from the Inara stats posted earlier in the thread, less than 10% of players engage in PvP, what compelling reason would there be to remove the game modes other than Open?

I myself don't like PVP. What made you think that Open play is only for PVP?