Suggestion to bring Risk vs Rewards on PVP, Piracy and Bounty Hunting on Open Play

[ianstrauss]

why not just remove all other game modes and only maintain Open only to have certain systems allow PVP like Lawless systems with certain benefits to it? For example, before you jump into a Lawless system, the system warns you that you are entering a PVP system and enter at your own risk. However, there should be benefits like mining in a Lawless system can be 100x more profitable than systems wherein PVP is disabled. That way there is risk vs rewards balance, plus PVP is consensual only to those who are bold enough to reap the rewards while in the danger zone. This will also legitimize the piracy, stealth and bounty hunting gameplay mechanics.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

So a player can go in solo to this systems and gain all benefits without risk? How to manage a non-pvp zone where PvP is not permitted? How should this be implemented?

I think it's good to have some thoughts about this (how to create reasonable PvP) in general, but don't forget that this has to be implemented in the game via specific mechanics.

 

[ianstrauss]

So a player can go in solo to this systems and gain all benefits without risk? How to manage a non-pvp zone where PvP is not permitted? How should this be implemented?

I think it's good to have some thoughts about this (how to create reasonable PvP) in general, but don't forget that this has to be implemented in the game via specific mechanics.

The suggestion was made in view of Open play only and can be a good reason for consideration to remove the other modes.

 

[ianstrauss]

It also creates more engagements, for example if you want to do a extremely profitable trade vs a lower output trade.

You can decide wether the trade route will go through a Lawless PVP system which gives you lesser number of jumps but gives you extremely high returns due to the risks. But you also have the option to go to a safer non PVP route but longer and lesser rewards.

 

[Nadreck]

why not just remove all other game modes and only maintain Open only ...

No.

Even if you only allow PvP in some systems... still no.

Pretty much all the usual problems with such proposals would still occur. Forcing players to connect with other players over poor-quality Internet connections, shenanigans involving preventing instancing with other players while still picking up any rewards for "being in Open", and so on.

 

[GroG79]

can be 100x more profitable

You lost me there

 

[ianstrauss]

You lost me there

Let me tell you an example of an emergent gameplay from this suggestion:

There are 2 potential profitable trade routes:

1st Trade Route: Only requires 10 jumps but it goes through 3 risky Lawless PVP systems. You get 300 mill credits.
2nd Trade Route: Will require you 100 jumps without the need to go through any Lawless PVP systems. You get 300 mill credits.

If you are bold enough to enter PVP and get ganked but get more credits out of it, then you would choose 1st route.
If you want to play safe, take the 2nd route but it will take more time.

• It gives reason for Piracy
• It gives reason for Bounty Hunting
• It gives reason for Stealth Gameplay
• it enhances risks vs rewards
• it creates emergent gameplay
• it doesnt force you to PVP
• You don't miss out on any content and switching modes are not needed
• etc.

 

[GroG79]

Did you play a lot of Elite dangerous?
I can jump 100 times and not meet any one. I can jump 100 times and be halfway Colonia... Most trades are 1-2 jumps away. There are 20.000 systems in the bubble alone.
You really do not understand why some players do not want pvp? No rewards will make up for that. Play the game YOUR way.. Do not make other players play YOUR way.

You can pvp all you want with other pvpers. I do not see why you need to pvp with players that do not want to engage with you (yes, they should be in Solo or just escape your interdiction but that is besides the point)

Considering your proposal: A jump costs at least one minute. How is spending 100 minutes and gaining 300 credits fair? This and the 100 jump suggestion in itself is making me thing you do not play this game at all.


Btw: Fdev will never be Open only. Another flaw in your suggestion

 

[ianstrauss]

Did you play a lot of Elite dangerous?
I can jump 100 times and not meet any one. I can jump 100 times and be halfway Colonia... Most trades are 1-2 jumps away. There are 20.000 systems in the bubble alone.
You really do not understand why some players do not want pvp? No rewards will make up for that. Play the game YOUR way.. Do not make other players play YOUR way.

You can pvp all you want with other pvpers. I do not see why you need to pvp with players that do not want to engage with you (yes, they should be in Solo or just escape your interdiction but that is besides the point)

Considering your proposal: A jump costs at least one minute. How is spending 100 minutes and gaining 300 credits fair? This and the 100 jump suggestion in itself is making me thing you do not play this game at all.


Btw: Fdev will never be Open only. Another flaw in your suggestion

Been playing since Beta

and BTW, nobody thought they will shelve the development of the console, so what made you think they won't change any of their plans in the future? So thats a flaw in your argument

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Been playing since Beta

and BTW, nobody thought they will shelve the development of the console, so what made you think they won't change any of their plans in the future? So thats a flaw in your argument

There will be no changes to the modes. That's obvious. Imagine FDev stated open only suddenly... I assume half the players will left and stop playing. FDev will never risk this.

 

[GroG79]

I was not thinking EDO would make it to console without significant changes to the Cobra engine.. So I had big doubts.

But thx for thinking for me and the rest of the community Also I am more than happy to get blown up if we meet in open. However that is my playstyle

 

[Nadreck]

Let me tell you an example of an emergent gameplay from this suggestion:

There are 2 potential profitable trade routes:

1st Trade Route: Only requires 10 jumps but it goes through 3 risky Lawless PVP systems. You get 300 mill credits.
2nd Trade Route: Will require you 100 jumps without the need to go through any Lawless PVP systems. You get 300 mill credits.

If you are bold enough to enter PVP and get ganked but get more credits out of it, then you would choose 1st route.
If you want to play safe, take the 2nd route but it will take more time.

• It gives reason for Piracy
• It gives reason for Bounty Hunting
• It gives reason for Stealth Gameplay
• it enhances risks vs rewards
• it creates emergent gameplay
• it doesnt force you to PVP
• You don't miss out on any content and switching modes are not needed
• etc.

Well, you've completely ignored the point that players can be in Open and STILL choose not to get instanced with anyone at all (and in some cases it won't even be a choice: if you have a poor Internet connection, or you're in an unusual timezone when hardly anyone else is online).

But let's run with your example, but scale the silly numbers back (not a trader, methinks?):

1st Trade Route: Only requires 2 jumps but it goes through 1 risky Lawless PVP system. You get 30 mill credits.
2nd Trade Route: Will require you 10 jumps without the need to go through any Lawless PVP systems. You get 30 mill credits.

So, how exactly would you implement that in the Bubble? How do you block al the routes that the non-PvP player might take? You can't. You'd have to make almost every system a PvP system, to try to force the players into narrow corridors of "safe" systems, and you'd have to remove all engineered FSD's and Guardian FSD boosters to limit jumprange, so that nobody can take a shortcut across those lanes.

And even if this was actually possible, the net result is to punish peaceful traders. Like it or not (you plainly don't), that IS a legitimate playstyle.

 

[TR]

The game is fine as it is.

Aside from the arguments above: for all intents and purposes, people played the original Elite in Solo. And Frontier. In Solo. Yes, there weren't any other modes available in those games, and I'm happy that Elite Dangerous has the Solo option, because that's how a lot of us like to play. Simple as that.

o7

 

[Taifu]

Ah, I see the OP would like to hit dead horse No One.

Excellent choice OP. Dead horse No One is one the forums favourites.

Yes I know it doesn't look like a horse. That's the result of years of beatings.

Would the OP like to see the Stick Menu?

 

[Northpin]

why not just remove all other game modes and only maintain Open only to have certain systems allow PVP like Lawless systems with certain benefits to it? For example, before you jump into a Lawless system, the system warns you that you are entering a PVP system and enter at your own risk. However, there should be benefits like mining in a Lawless system can be 100x more profitable than systems wherein PVP is disabled. That way there is risk vs rewards balance, plus PVP is consensual only to those who are bold enough to reap the rewards while in the danger zone. This will also legitimize the piracy, stealth and bounty hunting gameplay mechanics.

Has anyone mentioned already:
1) the block function?

and

2) that Elite Dangerous is using p2p networking.
Which makes any open-only proposal useless.
Even before this change will get implemented, YT will be full with how-to guides on how to find and block IP addresses of your oppoenents?
Or on how to create an allow list to filter anyone except FDev servers connecting to your computer?

As such - people will be easily reap the bonuses from the "open" setup while still being "solo" all the time


Nope, Elite is good as it is.
Who ever want pvp can find like minded commanders and pvp
Who does not - can use solo, pg or even open (and a rather large block list)

 

[Ettanin]

why not just remove all other game modes and only maintain Open only to have certain systems allow PVP like Lawless systems with certain benefits to it? For example, before you jump into a Lawless system, the system warns you that you are entering a PVP system and enter at your own risk. However, there should be benefits like mining in a Lawless system can be 100x more profitable than systems wherein PVP is disabled. That way there is risk vs rewards balance, plus PVP is consensual only to those who are bold enough to reap the rewards while in the danger zone. This will also legitimize the piracy, stealth and bounty hunting gameplay mechanics.

Leave the choice of modes as is. Forced PvP will kill this game.

 

[Chaparral]

I think it is a fine idea.

Unfortunately, PVP/Piracy/Gankorama will exist in high security systems. FDEVs solution to this is the Block mechanic and modes.

So, unless Block was rendered non-functional in Open Anarchy, AND PVP/Piracy/Gankorama was somehow blocked in Open high security - the idea is a non-starter.

 

[Misty_Dark]

you

why not just remove all other game modes and only maintain Open only to have certain systems allow PVP like Lawless systems with certain benefits to it? For example, before you jump into a Lawless system, the system warns you that you are entering a PVP system and enter at your own risk. However, there should be benefits like mining in a Lawless system can be 100x more profitable than systems wherein PVP is disabled. That way there is risk vs rewards balance, plus PVP is consensual only to those who are bold enough to reap the rewards while in the danger zone. This will also legitimize the piracy, stealth and bounty hunting gameplay mechanics.

you are going about this the wrong way...

what you want is an entirely new game mode, in another, much smaller, galaxy.
But you have still not solved the other numerous issues, how this would in any way shape or form solve the piracy, bounty hunting, etc mechanics.

 

[varonica]

1st Trade Route: Only requires 2 jumps but it goes through 1 risky Lawless PVP system. You get 30 mill credits.
2nd Trade Route: Will require you 10 jumps without the need to go through any Lawless PVP systems. You get 30 mill credits.

Or, Fleet Carrier. Original process, load up T9, 2 minutes per jump around 20 minutes. Fleet Carrier, load T9, hop on FC, 15 minutes to jump, 100,000 credits to jump, 29,800,000 credits, can park next to source and destination stations, job done!

 

[Brrokk]