System Authority Overhaul

[Rubbernuke]

BUT this is my point, to STOP the murder (at least after you get notoriety), otherwise what is the point in high sec at all???


I'll try and do better lol.


Exactly: I am proposing that after you get notoriety a high sec worth it's salt throws the ATR at you and chain interdicts, otherwise why even call itself 'high' security?
The few copo kills you manage will be worth a higher INF than normal because SHOCK HORROR our safe system has been invaded!!


Good for you - I await to be enlightened.
(I don't like using sarcasm but didn't really know how else to reply and I think your replies are stonewalling, at least to some extent)

There are far better ways to make security levels reflect things.

Examples

take the wealth of the system into consideration- argi systems, small / poor areas have low end sec vessels- high tech use full on G5 engineering

Treat anarchy controlled systems as invisible for player assets (such as ships)

Being a criminal is fun, but also managing your affairs as you go about your work can and should be fun too. Currently anarchy systems are a bit useless, but what if players could store things in these systems and that when they go to jail (or have to pay things off) these 'extradition free'...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Please scale station drop zones according to BGS criteria

Currently station drop zones are tiny - you drop inside them and are instantly protected by the stations guns. This totally negates the 'no mans land' that exists around the station and the gameplay it would generate- for example Powerplay NPCs and players could attack in this space, pirates...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Odyssey C+P: if bounties are harder to shift, make murders effects on the BGS the defacto way to tank influence again

With the new C+P changes (i.e. bounties are now 'stuck' on commanders) and 'hot ships' being done away, please make murder BGS wise much more potent. Murder INF re the BGS has been eroded so much it needs to have punch if its going to saddle you with its consequences. If not, criminality does...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Missions locked / hidden / sorted by notoriety

An idea that popped into my head while reading Screenmonsters great C+P ideas (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/crime-and-punishment-suggestions-by-an-in-game-criminal.560800/) Why is it factions trust criminals who are notorious? Think about it. Why do hardened cannibals like me get...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Player and NPC scans show notoriety / assaults / murders as an inline text variable

ED holds a lot of data on players and NPCs, but its all over the place and hard to parse quickly. One area is players past behaviour- how do you trust another player? One possible way is collating a players notoriety / assaults / murders and showing them in a simple inline format (N1,A2, M3)...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Scaled reduction of G1 to G5 engineering on weapons, shields and powerplants

Problem: Engineering makes the game unbalanced and severely affects a lot of related parts of the game in a negative way. Examples: Guardian modules: Cannot be engineered, but advantages are eclipsed by G1 > G5 engineering. So they are next to useless except for real edge cases. Outcome...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Scanning/ detection: make it useful (plus suggestions on criminal records, scan mechanics)

[Some Saturday coffee talk] A ships best weapon and defence should be its scanners- so why are they often "just D rate it and forget"? They should be your eyes and ears into supercruise, just as the full spectrum scanner is to explorer types as well as being a window into real space travel...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Make BGS murder count more, but also make it harder to commit and sustain + other ideas [long]

Disclaimer, I'm a BGS murder machine. Did you know I'm utterly insane? I like to dissect security as I return my videotapes. Disclaimer 2: the beta BGS state features may partly sort this out (being snarky the beta was far too short to see them in action). Disclaimer 3: I'm presently a bit...

forums.frontier.co.uk

At notoriety 10, each full NPC / player scan spawns an ATR vessel

A half though out idea, but: If a player is at notoriety 10, they have to be very careful about being scanned by random ships, security or other players as if they are, an ATR security vessel drops in to hassle them. The handwavium being that a scan is like a sighting of you thats disseminated...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Some C + P suggestions, tweaks and ideas (part 2)

Some ideas: Security response times are based on the attack position in that system. So, security response in close proximity to stations, traffic corridors etc are much quicker (and practically instantaneous in high sec close to traffic lanes) than in deep space. This logically simulates how...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Helping new players: scaled, personal NPC security detail at lower ranks in Open (mostly harmless > competent)

After a couple of interesting discussions I came up with this idea to help new players fresh out of the starter area: In short, low ranks on attack by other players (i.e. shots landed, interdicted) spawn security instantly when they drop to realspace 1: This idea kicks in as new players leave...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Revert no fire zone / drop distances to stations to pre gamma(?) distances and other C + P tweaks

Currently its far too easy to never see an NPC opponent from missions. Commanders drop far too close to stations and enter the no fire zone (NFZ) almost instantly, making any NPC bounty hunter or pirate instantly fly off (making them redundant). A distance like 20Km (or perhaps shrink the NFZ...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Danieros]

I remember instinctively thinking the security level would be how hard crimes/legal work would be. Low security being the high risk/reward for legal stuff, high security being the high risk/reward for criminal stuff.

Then as commanders flock to reap these, security would naturally change over time... after all there's a security slider.

Hopefully with one codebase they'll have more time to look at stuff like this.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

There are far better ways to make security levels reflect things.

Examples

take the wealth of the system into consideration- argi systems, small / poor areas have low end sec vessels- high tech use full on G5 engineering

Treat anarchy controlled systems as invisible for player assets (such as ships)

Being a criminal is fun, but also managing your affairs as you go about your work can and should be fun too. Currently anarchy systems are a bit useless, but what if players could store things in these systems and that when they go to jail (or have to pay things off) these 'extradition free'...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Please scale station drop zones according to BGS criteria

Currently station drop zones are tiny - you drop inside them and are instantly protected by the stations guns. This totally negates the 'no mans land' that exists around the station and the gameplay it would generate- for example Powerplay NPCs and players could attack in this space, pirates...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Odyssey C+P: if bounties are harder to shift, make murders effects on the BGS the defacto way to tank influence again

With the new C+P changes (i.e. bounties are now 'stuck' on commanders) and 'hot ships' being done away, please make murder BGS wise much more potent. Murder INF re the BGS has been eroded so much it needs to have punch if its going to saddle you with its consequences. If not, criminality does...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Missions locked / hidden / sorted by notoriety

An idea that popped into my head while reading Screenmonsters great C+P ideas (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/crime-and-punishment-suggestions-by-an-in-game-criminal.560800/) Why is it factions trust criminals who are notorious? Think about it. Why do hardened cannibals like me get...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Player and NPC scans show notoriety / assaults / murders as an inline text variable

ED holds a lot of data on players and NPCs, but its all over the place and hard to parse quickly. One area is players past behaviour- how do you trust another player? One possible way is collating a players notoriety / assaults / murders and showing them in a simple inline format (N1,A2, M3)...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Scaled reduction of G1 to G5 engineering on weapons, shields and powerplants

Problem: Engineering makes the game unbalanced and severely affects a lot of related parts of the game in a negative way. Examples: Guardian modules: Cannot be engineered, but advantages are eclipsed by G1 > G5 engineering. So they are next to useless except for real edge cases. Outcome...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Scanning/ detection: make it useful (plus suggestions on criminal records, scan mechanics)

[Some Saturday coffee talk] A ships best weapon and defence should be its scanners- so why are they often "just D rate it and forget"? They should be your eyes and ears into supercruise, just as the full spectrum scanner is to explorer types as well as being a window into real space travel...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Make BGS murder count more, but also make it harder to commit and sustain + other ideas [long]

Disclaimer, I'm a BGS murder machine. Did you know I'm utterly insane? I like to dissect security as I return my videotapes. Disclaimer 2: the beta BGS state features may partly sort this out (being snarky the beta was far too short to see them in action). Disclaimer 3: I'm presently a bit...

forums.frontier.co.uk

At notoriety 10, each full NPC / player scan spawns an ATR vessel

A half though out idea, but: If a player is at notoriety 10, they have to be very careful about being scanned by random ships, security or other players as if they are, an ATR security vessel drops in to hassle them. The handwavium being that a scan is like a sighting of you thats disseminated...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Some C + P suggestions, tweaks and ideas (part 2)

Some ideas: Security response times are based on the attack position in that system. So, security response in close proximity to stations, traffic corridors etc are much quicker (and practically instantaneous in high sec close to traffic lanes) than in deep space. This logically simulates how...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Helping new players: scaled, personal NPC security detail at lower ranks in Open (mostly harmless > competent)

After a couple of interesting discussions I came up with this idea to help new players fresh out of the starter area: In short, low ranks on attack by other players (i.e. shots landed, interdicted) spawn security instantly when they drop to realspace 1: This idea kicks in as new players leave...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Revert no fire zone / drop distances to stations to pre gamma(?) distances and other C + P tweaks

Currently its far too easy to never see an NPC opponent from missions. Commanders drop far too close to stations and enter the no fire zone (NFZ) almost instantly, making any NPC bounty hunter or pirate instantly fly off (making them redundant). A distance like 20Km (or perhaps shrink the NFZ...

forums.frontier.co.uk

I didn't understand the first line and the rest all seems to be a much wider discussion on the BGS and C&P in general, not really pertaining to the thread here - I agree that stuff depends on other stuff, but it's too wide ranging to wade into all of that (when I'm supposed to be working). How am I even supposed to reply? Or am I supposed to just bow down to the weight of you extensive documentation and take it as gospel?

 

[CaptainPugwash]

I remember instinctively thinking the security level would be how hard crimes/legal work would be. Low security being the high risk/reward for legal stuff, high security being the high risk/reward for criminal stuff.

Then as commanders flock to reap these, security would naturally change over time... after all there's a security slider.

Hopefully with one codebase they'll have more time to look at stuff like this.

I think we all agree on that more or less, it's just that the OP (and others) think that there is little difference between the sec levels.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I didn't understand the first line and the rest all seems to be a much wider discussion on the BGS and C&P in general, not really pertaining to the thread here - I agree that stuff depends on other stuff, but it's too wide ranging to wade into all of that (when I'm supposed to be working). How am I even supposed to reply? Or am I supposed to just bow down to the weight of you extensive documentation and take it as gospel?

The point is, just saying 'C+P needs an overhaul' is a massive, massive undertaking that to be done well requires many complex systems to interlock and work harmoniously.

Just trying to rely on chain interdiction and the bare bones we have now is folly, because it will just keep it paper thin and never really express the differences between systems, gov types and the myriad of other factors that would make C+P in each system different and interesting to crack.

Or am I supposed to just bow down to the weight of you extensive documentation and take it as gospel?

You can take it as you like, its my thoughts from murdering each and every day for a year and knowing the C+P systems backwards. Right now its inconsistent, has massive loopholes and other failings that FD 'cure' by simply making murder and piracy less impactful- all the time ignoring the immense gains in gameplay possible if they got it right.

I didn't understand the first line

Its simple as a concept: poor systems that can't afford top end ships use cheaper and less able vessels (expressed via BGS abstraction via economy type, population etc) while high tech, large pop systems (who have more money) afford better ones. The rules might be slightly different for superpower aligned systems (because they have military backing).

 

[Ian Doncaster]

A high security system currently has the same level of security as a low security system.

Yes and no. The difference is mostly irrelevant to a player in an engineered ship, certainly, but compared with a high-security system:
- low-security systems have a much longer authority response time
- low-security systems have more common and higher ranked NPC pirates hanging around in supercruise
- low-security systems are more likely to be ambush points for mission/tasty cargo pirate NPCs

If you're early enough in your career to be involuntarily losing interdictions to NPCs and not able to fight off an arbitrary NPC attacker single-handed, that could make quite a difference.

The problem isn't really the security levels, the problem is that involuntary NPC encounters are basically designed out wherever you are (by making interdictions winnable for the defender and making post-interdiction escape trivial - compare with the original Elite or especially FE2/FFE where once intercepted you essentially had to fight) so the rest of the set up makes no difference anyway.

If a player interrupts me when I'm in a high-security system, he has to realize that he's probably not going to make it out alive to tell the tale

In the specific case of player attacks, I think you'd need to have six or seven fleet carriers or similarly armed vessels drop in and open fire instantly if a crime is committed to stand a chance of that. Player ships can be made so ridiculously tough that no even vaguely-immersionist system authority counter is possible. (Equally, player ships can be made so ridiculously tough, without noticeable sacrificing performance in other areas, that you don't need system authority to help you get away)

Without "throw the game out and start over" levels of rewrites of combat and especially engineering, security levels are only ever going to meaningfully apply to interactions with NPCs no matter what they do.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Just trying to rely on chain interdiction and the bare bones we have now is folly

Well, we agree to disagree then (at least mostly), as I think it's quite realistic in terms of the simulation i.e. if I were a local police force I would do my best to stop any known criminals getting into shipping lanes or near stations etc. 'folly'? absolutely not .. at worst it's not the optimal choice.

You can take it as you like, its my thoughts from murdering each and every day for a year and knowing the C+P systems backwards. Right now its inconsistent, has massive loopholes and other failings that FD 'cure' by simply making murder and piracy less impactful- all the time ignoring the immense gains in gameplay possible if they got it right.

I simply don't have time to sift through all your thoughts, and no game designer on this planet is going to either I suspect - no offence intended, but your 'it all needs doing again from the ground up' stance will just encourage doing nothing, and I do think they are positive small steps that can be taken that are better than nothing.
For what it's worth I actually agree that piracey and muder could be more impactful (you mean INF I presume), but I would like to see it much more risky and difficult in proportion to sec level - at the moment it's pretty similar (I am not without experience myself).

Its simple as a concept: poor systems that can't afford top end ships use cheaper and less able vessels (expressed via BGS abstraction via economy type, population etc) while high tech, large pop systems (who have more money) afford better ones. The rules might be slightly different for superpower aligned systems (because they have military backing).

Sounds reasonable, but in a real economy I would expect that only the rich systems would be able to fund the best security. I don't have data to hand but I wouldn't be surprised if the high pop systems were already generally likely to be high sec as well.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Without "throw the game out and start over" levels of rewrites of combat and especially engineering, security levels are only ever going to meaningfully apply to interactions with NPCs no matter what they do.

I don't wanna get all doom and gloom but complex problems usually only get solved one piece at a time. If fdev, like many here in the community, decide that the only way is to start from scratch we will witness a gradual death of the game, and there is no guarantee that starting from scratch will actually produce anything better.
There is always a way to improve something, but there is often a mental block based on the premise that acting to produce a partial solution will somehow cause the end of the search for the ideal solution. The problem is the ideal solution doesn't exist, so nothing gets done.

 

[DemiserofD]

The problem with beefing up system security is that it is much harder to do piracy than murder, but you want to encourage piracy, and discourage murder. How do you create a system where players can pirate over multiple minutes, but aren't allowed to kill in seconds?

 

[CaptainPugwash]

The problem with beefing up system security is that it is much harder to do piracy than murder, but you want to encourage piracy, and discourage murder. How do you create a system where players can pirate over multiple minutes, but aren't allowed to kill in seconds?

You can still, via notoriety, increase the deterrent to killing to the point where it’s not worth it to kill more than once (see chain interdictions). That still leaves space for the pirates that don’t kill, and I would also greatly increase the average cargo value in traders or miner NPCs, especially in wealthy high sec systems. We are still waiting for the core mining minerals.

 

[avow555]

Fdev never sort old issues.
I think they outsource a lot of content and cannot revisit after a certain time frame.

Modern sort of YOP for the current age...

 

[Rubbernuke]

You do also get that sec does this now too? When you are hostile sec forces will (around 60% of the time) go after you. But having it so that the minute you enter SC and seconds later another interdiction, and another.....its going to be horrible. Its better to keep how it works now, and make realspace more dangerous to balance things out, otherwise....whats the point of other areas? Whats the point of drop zones if they are too small, scan mechanics never used, ATR pointless, zones (deep space / shipping lanes) etc? Do you see how many areas C+P dovetails into, and how superficial it is currently?

I simply don't have time to sift through all your thoughts, and no game designer on this planet is going to either I suspect - no offence intended, but your 'it all needs doing again from the ground up' stance will just encourage doing nothing, and I do think they are positive small steps that can be taken that are better than nothing.
For what it's worth I actually agree that piracey and muder could be more impactful (you mean INF I presume), but I would like to see it much more risky and difficult in proportion to sec level - at the moment it's pretty similar (I am not without experience myself).

And thats fine, but I'm showing you the amount of problems and solutions the C+P has, because its got into this state by having new concepts bolted onto old ones or taken away without thought for consequences. This has led to the mess we have now, which is dull, paper thin, and not fun at all.

positive small steps

There are a few (I posted a couple in my list) but you'll soon butt up against more fundamental problems that require sorting out.

Sounds reasonable, but in a real economy I would expect that only the rich systems would be able to fund the best security. I don't have data to hand but I wouldn't be surprised if the high pop systems were already generally likely to be high sec as well.

It was a simple example, but using more BGS metrics would make each security force unique. Not all high pop systems are high security- but at the same time population could allow for bigger wings of ships

 

[Rubbernuke]

The problem with beefing up system security is that it is much harder to do piracy than murder, but you want to encourage piracy, and discourage murder. How do you create a system where players can pirate over multiple minutes, but aren't allowed to kill in seconds?

In my list I have a few solutions for this- but the main one is removing fixed response timers and taking into account distance from the main station and what 'zone' (deep space / shipping lane) its in.

General NPC traffic flows in defined corridors but it could be that this is made fuzzy (in that the occasional trader might deviate), and that attacking further out increases the time sec has getting to you. Deep space adds extra seconds (because via abstraction police have to go look for you) while shipping lane zones do not.

The more valuable the cargo the closer the NPC sticks to lanes, which would then force players to interdict as far away from the station as they can- so while its not impossible it still rewards choosing the right interdiction position because response timers are not 'flat' regardless of you dropping the target far away.

The flip side is that players who are interdicted are rewarded for how close they are to a station- the closer they get the faster police turn up, incentivizing putting up a fight.

Making murder harder but more rewarding would take a combination of ideas but is also doable.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I don't wanna get all doom and gloom but complex problems usually only get solved one piece at a time. If fdev, like many here in the community, decide that the only way is to start from scratch we will witness a gradual death of the game, and there is no guarantee that starting from scratch will actually produce anything better.
There is always a way to improve something, but there is often a mental block based on the premise that acting to produce a partial solution will somehow cause the end of the search for the ideal solution. The problem is the ideal solution doesn't exist, so nothing gets done.

Oh, no disagreement with you on that - my point was that security levels are best talked about purely in terms of PvE situations - where reforms and adjustments could make them more interesting, rather than PvP situations where the balance is so completely different it's really out of scope for system security levels at all.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Oh, no disagreement with you on that - my point was that security levels are best talked about purely in terms of PvE situations - where reforms and adjustments could make them more interesting, rather than PvP situations where the balance is so completely different it's really out of scope for system security levels at all.

I actually think that virtually locking known criminals out of a high via an imposing police presence in SC (by chain interdicting them) is fairly plausible and effective both for pve and pvp because it side steps the engineering imbalance in pvp. The purists would say it doesn’t solve it but their solution is to start from scratch or remove engineering, and we know that is a dead end, at least for the current game.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

You do also get that sec does this now too?

Yes of course I do, but you can easily enter a high sec with notoriety 10 and go to one of the stations atm

But having it so that the minute you enter SC and seconds later another interdiction, and another.....its going to be horrible.

It would only happen in a high sec when you already have notoriety, so no, I don’t think it’s horrible. It seems reasonable to me that after a murder happens in a high sec, the local authorities will do everything in their power to stop it happening again, and will mobilize all the police they can muster. there is already a notoriety timer, so after losing notoriety you can kill again, AND such killing should have a stronger INF effect on the controlling faction than it does now in my opinion.

Whats the point of drop zones if they are too small, scan mechanics never used, ATR pointless, zones (deep space / shipping lanes) etc?

These mechanics wouldn’t be made redundant, the ATR would still be called in after a murder, and would arrive quick enough in a shipping lane to stop you killing more than a few ships at most, whereas in deep space they would be slower

Do you see how many areas C+P dovetails into

I believe I do, but I’m certainly willing to learn from others here

Not all high pop systems are high security- but at the same time population could allow for bigger wings of ships

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It would only happen in a high sec when you already have notoriety, so no, I don’t think it’s horrible. It seems reasonable to me that after a murder happens in a high sec, the local authorities will do everything in their power to stop it happening again, and will mobilize all the police they can muster. there is already a notoriety timer, so after losing notoriety you can kill again, AND such killing should have a stronger INF effect on the controlling faction than it does now in my opinion.

My issue is chain interdiction- its simply not fun PvE. In such an underdeveloped part of the game (Supercruise) it hammers any gameplay left in it. It would also be impossible because you'd need a huge density of security not normally present. Even in the most contested supercruise I can remember (2.x BGS Lockdown) which had wings of Anacondas / Corvettes from navies in high sec (which is as close as the game gets to your idea) it was impossible for chain interdictions (and this was with several very angry wings roving about).

I'd rather have it that scanning mechanics and hiding in plain sight are used better, and that supercruise has more ways to traverse it unseen- like smuggling routes through asteroids belts and other gaps.

For example: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...-npc-player-scan-spawns-an-atr-vessel.533172/ would be far more effective because you can't get sloppy when you travel, and requires skill to keep a low profile if you want to keep a shield.

The space around stations needs to have better policing, as well as make better use of smuggling mechanics to get yourself inside. Supercruise is far too easy to win interdictions in PvE too, where you can rove at will. Its only interdiction bugs from repeated NPC interdictions that pose a threat (bar the unending swirling and judder).

Currently you can loiter in supercruise at will, and that dropping down into places like NAVs and around stations is inconsistent (especially surface bases where no ATR go).

BTW Notoriety only acts as a bounty multiplier and timeout- its the bounties that determine if sec want to kill you. This is another loophole, because you can gain assaults by shooting (but not killing) which affect the BGS but gain no notoriety (and thus billion scale bounties).

 

[Vandaahl]

I know this has been asked thousands of times but now that the focus of the game is on its development can we finally have an overhaul of the system authority? A high security system currently has the same level of security as a low security system.

If a player interrupts me when I'm in a high-security system, he has to realize that he's probably not going to make it out alive to tell the tale. In the same way, if I go with a T9 to a low security system to take a shortcut, I risk being destroyed. We need realism please.

Well, to be honest, the last time they made changes to the C&P system, the law abiding pilots were the victims... be careful what you ask for. AI law enforcers can not be reasoned with.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

My issue is chain interdiction- its simply not fun PvE. In such an underdeveloped part of the game (Supercruise) it hammers any gameplay left in it. It would also be impossible because you'd need a huge density of security not normally present.

Not impossible if it happens on arrival at the main star, and after that is diluted.

For example: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...-npc-player-scan-spawns-an-atr-vessel.533172/ would be far more effective because you can't get sloppy when you travel, and requires skill to keep a low profile if you want to keep a shield.

I agree fdev haven’t levered the ATR enough, but as many have stated here, players with engineered ships can kill repeatedly even with ATR, would your suggestion significantly change that?

Currently you can loiter in supercruise at will

Which allows serial ganking and to me is also inadequate in a high sec for pve

dropping down into places like NAVs and around stations is inconsistent (especially surface bases where no ATR go).

Agreed.

Supercruise is far too easy to win interdictions in PvE too

Now you got me!
A better solution than chain interdictions would be ATR interdictions that are very difficult to win. However even the slightest hint of making interdictions more difficult, even if only for notorious criminals, gets a hefty portion of the forum community all hot under the collar, and resulted in me leaving the forums alone for a few months.
I do still strongly believe that a trader should be able to plan a trade route in high sec systems and not have to worry about combat as long as he sticks to the shipping lanes.

all sorts of BGS activity could then revolve around the creating and maintaining safe trade routes.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Not impossible if it happens on arrival at the main star, and after that is diluted.

The only NPCs that do this proactively are BH, and to do it they cheat. Also, sec forces start from scattered positions and are not static, and take time to spawn. They'd have to be in one giant ring around the star all the time too, because of instancing.

I agree fdev haven’t levered the ATR enough, but as many have stated here, players with engineered ships can kill repeatedly even with ATR, would your suggestion significantly change that?

The biggest flaw in ATR: they tell you when they are coming- if they autospawn on you failing a scan then you have a non-murder spree dependent outcome. Also, ATR remove the shield in a shield dependent game- combine random (but skill dependent avoidance) spawns of difficult ships it adds much more uncertainty when committing crimes, because then there is little room for error (unlike now where sec spawn, try to find you, then scan you, then open fire).

Which allows serial ganking and to me is also inadequate in a high sec for pve

The issue here is: crimes are committed in real space, so add more avoidance / security gameplay to these areas and not simply annoy people in SC more.

Now you got me!
A better solution than chain interdictions would be ATR interdictions that are very difficult to win. However even the slightest hint of making interdictions more difficult, even if only for notorious criminals, gets a hefty portion of the forum community all hot under the collar, and resulted in me leaving the forums alone for a few months.
I do still strongly believe that a trader should be able to plan a trade route in high sec systems and not have to worry about combat as long as he sticks to the shipping lanes.

all sorts of BGS activity could then revolve around the creating and maintaining safe trade routes.

The problem is making something require skill but not hit people over the head.

This is what I mean about making interdiction location matter, it rewards traders fighting interdictions to get as close to help as possible, rewards pirates for interdicting in remote places. Help then comes faster (or slower) based on skill and judgement, not fixed timers which are too simplistic. ATR is too simplistic- making them more random would make PvE raiding much more perilous because you can;t get scanned, must build a ship that relies on hull more (since 4 hits and your shield is toast) which is heavier, and that you must plan how you murder. Add to that blackspots, no fly areas patrolled by navies, better use of scan mechanics and then you have a synergistic C+P that is gameplay rich.