GALNET - 29 MAR 3308 - Empire Reaches Out to Marlinists

Amata Lirein

Amata Lirein
GALNET - 29 MAR 3308 - Empire Reaches Out to Marlinists

Emperor Arissa Lavigny-Duval has outlined a plan for the Marlinist Colonies to be officially reconnected with the Empire.

The Marlin Standard published an exclusive report from Prime Consul Kayode Tau, after he attended a diplomatic meeting on Capitol:

“The essence of Emperor Arissa’s proposal is a pledge to grant the status of Imperial protectorate to the Marlinist Colonies, in return for swearing allegiance to the throne.”

“In practice, local government would remain autonomous but the Imperial Navy and security agencies would have a permanent presence. There would be investment in trade, with Empire-based companies as preferred partners. New channels of transportation and communication would be opened between Marlinist and Imperial systems.”

“Emperor Arissa and I discussed the issues at length. Following her experience with the Lords of Restoration, Her Majesty now accepts that most believers in Marlinism are not terrorists or revolutionaries. She has, however, insisted that the Empire must be watchful for any Neo-Marlinist resurgence.”

“When I broached the topic that some senators had suggested absorbing the Marlinist Colonies by force, the Emperor assured me there would be no military action. She spoke of her ‘need to cleanse the wounds left by the NMLA’, and I believe this is a genuine sentiment.”

The Marlinist Parliament has received full details of the proposal and is preparing a response.

Source
 

Erei

Erei
I think this is going to make a lot of CMDR mad. All the marlinist ones who have worked the BGS to keep those system independent.
Amata Lirein said:
in return for swearing allegiance to the throne.”
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That part in particular. It doesn't make much sense. Marlinist believe that the Empire should be a democracy. Why would they swear allegiance to the very same entity they refuse to acknowledge ?

I do hope they don't Fdev force Marlinists back into the Empire.
 

Jaden Capek

J
Us Marlinists are very split on the issue. This is a very good deal, far better than what the Marlinists would've gotten before the NMLA came along. Exclusive trade and protection deals is something hundreds of factions would kill for.

But is it worth surrendering our independence for? Even if we remain self- governing and autonomous? That we're not convinced on.
 

Erei

Erei
Jaden Capek said:
Us Marlinists are very split on the issue. This is a very good deal, far better than what the Marlinists would've gotten before the NMLA came along. Exclusive trade and protection deals is something hundreds of factions would kill for.

But is it worth surrendering our independence for? Even if we remain self- governing and autonomous? That we're not convinced on.
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It's the "swear allegiance to the throne" which is weird. A military protectorate, with some trading agreements, yes sure.

But surrendering their hard won independence to the Emperor ? When they refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy (by definition) ? That's kinda weird.

If they swear to her, then they say they were wrong, and she is the legitimate ruler of the Empire.
 

HRDiagram

HRDiagram
I think there might have been a misunderstanding that went soon out of control.

The Empire said "we are happy if you swear allegiance to the throne"

The Marlinist heard "we are happy if you swear outrageously at the throne".

To everyone's surprise, both parties were happy with the outcome.

Any third party witnessing the event preferred to keep quiet, secretly giggling.
 

Jaden Capek

J
The difference is that we're allowed to be democracies and self- governing, which is also the main point of Marlinism. This is something that would've been inconceivable over the centuries before now. In return, we have to acknowledge Arissa as our legitimate ruler.

Personally, I would prefer a different deal. We remain independent, but in a NATO or EU style alliance with the Empire. We recognize her as the ruler of the Empire, but not the ruler of us. We will support and come to the aid of the Empire as needed and prioritize them with our commerce, but as an ally, not a subject.
 

Sublime

S
Jaden Capek said:
The difference is that we're allowed to be democracies and self- governing, which is also the main point of Marlinism. This is something that would've been inconceivable over the centuries before now. In return, we have to acknowledge Arissa as our legitimate ruler.

Personally, I would prefer a different deal. We remain independent, but in a NATO or EU style alliance with the Empire. We recognize her as the ruler of the Empire, but not the ruler of us. We will support and come to the aid of the Empire as needed and prioritize them with our commerce, but as an ally, not a subject.
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You do not remain independent, you swear allegiance to a foreign power in return for protection. That’s not independence. That’s being a vassal.
 

Sublime

S
Jaden Capek said:
You can enter defense and economic treaties without swearing allegiance to the other party.
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Yes, but her condition is swearing allegiance and that’s the biggest red flag that makes this a vassalage. They are not free.

Edit:
If the Marlinists would like to tell her highness what to do with her offer of vassalage, I’m sure many members of the independent pilot’s federation would be happy to back them up on that point if it came to it.

Edit again:
It’s really ridiculous that this is even being offered in its current form, with a straight face. It’s like King George offering the American states an offer to swear allegiance to him after the revolutionary war. What would their response have been?
 
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Erei

Erei
Jaden Capek said:
The difference is that we're allowed to be democracies and self- governing, which is also the main point of Marlinism. This is something that would've been inconceivable over the centuries before now. In return, we have to acknowledge Arissa as our legitimate ruler.

Personally, I would prefer a different deal. We remain independent, but in a NATO or EU style alliance with the Empire. We recognize her as the ruler of the Empire, but not the ruler of us. We will support and come to the aid of the Empire as needed and prioritize them with our commerce, but as an ally, not a subject.
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If you swear allegiance to her, that mean you acknowledge her legitimacy as ruler of the Empire. Her claim is undisputed by you anymore.
By definition, Marlinist refuse to do. It's in the name even. "Marlin" as in the first ruler of the pre-Empire, and the only legitimate one in their eyes.

If they swear allegiance, then they stop being Marlinist. They become something else, I dunno, a democratic movement inside the empire or something. Could rename themselves "Duvalist" then :D

It's like claiming the USA would still be the USA if they swore allegiance to the Queen of UK. They wouldn't, that was the whole point of the war of independence. They would be a UK colony again. Even if they are free to conduct most of their business.
 

Jaden Capek

J
Erei said:
If you swear allegiance to her, that mean you acknowledge her legitimacy as ruler of the Empire. Her claim is undisputed by you anymore.
By definition, Marlinist refuse to do. It's in the name even. "Marlin" as in the first ruler of the pre-Empire, and the only legitimate one in their eyes.

If they swear allegiance, then they stop being Marlinist. They become something else, I dunno, a democratic movement inside the empire or something. Could rename themselves "Duvalist" then :D

It's like claiming the USA would still be the USA if they swore allegiance to the Queen of UK. They wouldn't, that was the whole point of the war of independence. They would be a UK colony again. Even if they are free to conduct most of their business.
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I like to think there's different kinds of Marlinist belief systems, and the common thread between them is they want to be ruled by a democracy. One group (let's call them Free Marlinists) are basically "Fine, you can keep Achenar, but we want our own republic!" like how Marlin left her homeland to start her own republic, while others are like "noo, the Empire needs to be democratic and we want Marlin's Republic of Achenar back!". You can make arguments that both are Marlinist in different ways, since both support Marlin's legacy in different ways.
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
I can't remember which kids film it came from when I looked after my very young nieces at the time, which was probably ten years ago, but there is a line I'm always reminded of:-

"Gonna catch me a Marlin...!"

This is my contribution, but I'd love to know if anyone remembers the movie?! Could be a tv show too, but I thought film.
 

Jaden Capek

J
I wonder how Imperial players feel about this? Hypothetically, if there were a CG to decide whether the Marlinists became independent, who would win?
 

Erei

Erei
Jaden Capek said:
I like to think there's different kinds of Marlinist belief systems, and the common thread between them is they want to be ruled by a democracy. One group (let's call them Free Marlinists) are basically "Fine, you can keep Achenar, but we want our own republic!" like how Marlin left her homeland to start her own republic, while others are like "noo, the Empire needs to be democratic and we want Marlin's Republic of Achenar back!". You can make arguments that both are Marlinist in different ways, since both support Marlin's legacy in different ways.
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Then both would agree swearing allegiance is bad.
The independists certainly don't want to be ruled by the Empire, by definition. And this is an Empire rule. Even with some freedom. If you swear to the throne, then the Emperor is your ruler. That's how it work. Sure she won't meddle in the system rules (for now), but she will for everything else.
The closest I can think of is medieval era Feudalism. People were ruled by their Lord, which in turn was ruled by the king (or equivalent). But the townfolk (the rich one, you had to get citizenship) voted for a Mayor. And the Mayor would decide most of the daily political city life. But the town citizen were not living in democracy. The mayor still had to answer its Lord.

Same thing here. Sure, marlinists will decide how to rule their system. But ALD will decide which war she want to get into. She decide what kind of global reform she does. It will be her fleet which keep peace. Her army to protect the citizen. She decide everything that's not local ruling.

In addition, it's no guarantee about the future. Now she say she will let them rule. What about tomorrow ? Or the next Emperor when she is gone ? Marlinist will already be a part of the Empire after all.


And obviously the "democracy to rule the Empire" crowd would also hate this, for the reason I mentioned above and in my previous post.
 

Jaden Capek

J
I imagine some moderate Marlinist citizens who didn't sign up for nation- building and just want to go home would be willing to take the deal. "Marlinism is about wanting to be in a democracy. I'm fine with being part of a monarchy as long as my local government is democratic.

Which gives me an idea: There are 8 Marlinist factions. What if half of them agree to the deal and combine to become the Marlinist Protectorate, and the other half refuse and combine to become the Marlinist Republic? Basically combining the 8 factions into 2. One being an Empire Democracy and the other an independent. (FDev, if you're reading this, you have my permission to steal this idea.)
 

Erei

Erei
Yeah but if you call yourself Marlinist in honor of the first (and only) democrately elected ruler of a nation, you usually don't grovel at the feet of the authoritarian one who is the direct descendant of the guy who destroyed the system, and likely KILLED the person you honor.

The Empire is not a democracy. Even if you elect your local rulers. They hold NO power outside of the one temporarily granted by the Emperor. And it can be revoked and changed at any time. And they have NO power on the global direction the Empire do.
Say the Empire declare war to the Fed ? They join, they send ship and people to die for Her Glory. No real choice, they are vassals after all.
Say the Empire tax them ? Nothing can be done.
Police ? Empire do it.
Wearing red hats in public is illegal ? Whatever you say my Lord.
How it is handled at the end is up to the local rulers, but they still have to impose that.
 

BDelacroix

BDelacroix
Not entirely different than any other protecorate of the empire.
And the no say thing isn't quite true. The empire is like the old roman empire. It is run by a senate and the senators vie for support of the people. That isn't to say corruption doesn't happen, but there is power in gaining more patrons so deals are made to acquire those patrons (the general populace). Sometimes good deals, sometimes shady.
The red hats thing is simply a straw man argument.
As to who is emperor, the senate choses.
 
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