GALNET - 29 MAR 3308 - Empire Reaches Out to Marlinists

[Jaden Capek]

My feelings on the matter are basically this:

This an amazing deal and the best deal we've been offered, but we believe very strongly in the Marlinist ideology and can't in good conscience support fealty to the Emperor, since fealty to a monarch is anathema to our beliefs. However we do acknowledge that we're perfectly willing to be allies and partners with monarchs, we just can't acknowledge them as our leaders.

In other words, I want independence, but are willing to be allied to the Empire. Allies instead of subject. Peaceful coexistence

 

[Jaden Capek]

Not entirely different than any other protecorate of the empire.
And the no say thing isn't quite true. The empire is like the old roman empire. It is run by a senate and the senators vie for support of the people. That isn't to say corruption doesn't happen, but there is power in gaining more patrons so deals are made to acquire those patrons (the general populace). Sometimes good deals, sometimes shady.
The red hats thing is simply a straw man argument.
As to who is emperor, the senate choses.

That is true. If the Marlinist First Minister is also a Senator, then she could gather enough patrons and enough power over time to force democratic reforms in the greater Empire and maybe one day abolish the title of Emperor and replace it with a democracy.

 

[Rubbernuke]

abolish the title of Emperor and replace it with a democracy.

 

[Tividar]

Edit again:
It’s really ridiculous that this is even being offered in its current form, with a straight face. It’s like King George offering the American states an offer to swear allegiance to him after the revolutionary war. What would their response have been?

If King George had offered local autonomy, the end of Impressment of American "Citizens" and the end of the crown's right to tax the colonies we'd probably have remained part of the British empire. Those were essentially all the major conflict points, and most colonist were still proud of their English heritage. It took many decades to develop an authentic nationalism.

Edit: I should add that freeing the crown from the expense of having to "manage" the colonial frontier would have been an attractive element as well.

 

[Jaden Capek]

View attachment 298941

I'm going to democratically introduce Patreus to an open 10th story window.

 

[Erei]

Not entirely different than any other protecorate of the empire.
And the no say thing isn't quite true. The empire is like the old roman empire. It is run by a senate and the senators vie for support of the people. That isn't to say corruption doesn't happen, but there is power in gaining more patrons so deals are made to acquire those patrons (the general populace). Sometimes good deals, sometimes shady.
The red hats thing is simply a straw man argument.
As to who is emperor, the senate choses.

It's a mix of elective monarchy and Roman Empire.
In the Roman Empire, the Emperor was the absolute leader, but the Senators were elected by the people. They did all the day to day political life of the Empire, and voted for the laws and such. But the Emperor was above them, and if he wanted something, he had what he wanted, period. But as the Emperor as one of the biggets Empire of the world at the time, he rarely had the time nor the inclination to rule over every little laws.

For example, Caligula declared war to Poseidon, and had his legion stab the sea. Fairly certain the senators were not behind that one. It ended up as a small victory-status quo for Rome, if you are curious.

Eventually, like any authoritarian system, it's a difficult balance of power. The Emperor have all the rights, but the more they push a direction the senators don't want (which is not necessarily what the people want, BTW), the more likely said senators decide it's best to get rid of the Emperor and have a new one. And then suddenly a very sad accident happen, RIP the Emperor.
On the other hand, siding with the Emperor can be beneficial for when you need it later on.
Backroom politic and all that.


BTW, from wiki about Empire senator (the ED ones) :

Senators themselves are above the law. They can order executions, and even kill people themselves. They can be held to account by the Emperor.

That seems democratic

 

[Jaden Capek]

If King George had offered local autonomy, the end of Impressment of American "Citizens" and the end of the crown's right to tax the colonies we'd probably have remained part of the British empire. Those were essentially all the major conflict points, and most colonist were still proud of their English heritage. It took many decades to develop an authentic nationalism.

This. It is stated that the Marlinists are still culturally Imperial and many are homesick for their original homeworlds, so the promise of self- governance with no reprisals would be extremely appealing.

 

[Phill P]

GALNET - 29 MAR 3308 - Empire Reaches Out to Marlinists

Emperor Arissa Lavigny-Duval has outlined a plan for the Marlinist Colonies to be officially reconnected with the Empire.

The Marlin Standard published an exclusive report from Prime Consul Kayode Tau, after he attended a diplomatic meeting on Capitol:

“The essence of Emperor Arissa’s proposal is a pledge to grant the status of Imperial protectorate to the Marlinist Colonies, in return for swearing allegiance to the throne.”

“In practice, local government would remain autonomous but the Imperial Navy and security agencies would have a permanent presence. There would be investment in trade, with Empire-based companies as preferred partners. New channels of transportation and communication would be opened between Marlinist and Imperial systems.”

“Emperor Arissa and I discussed the issues at length. Following her experience with the Lords of Restoration, Her Majesty now accepts that most believers in Marlinism are not terrorists or revolutionaries. She has, however, insisted that the Empire must be watchful for any Neo-Marlinist resurgence.”

“When I broached the topic that some senators had suggested absorbing the Marlinist Colonies by force, the Emperor assured me there would be no military action. She spoke of her ‘need to cleanse the wounds left by the NMLA’, and I believe this is a genuine sentiment.”

The Marlinist Parliament has received full details of the proposal and is preparing a response.

Source

So even though the NMLA was a fake terrorist group organised by senators who wanted a coup to get rid of the Emperor, the Marlinists are somehow to blame anyway.

That year in cryostasis obviously froze her brain. Tell her where to stuff it.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I can't remember which kids film it came from when I looked after my very young nieces at the time, which was probably ten years ago, but there is a line I'm always reminded of:-

"Gonna catch me a Marlin...!"

This is my contribution, but I'd love to know if anyone remembers the movie?! Could be a tv show too, but I thought film.

Austin Powers. Good to know you're well in the "irresponsible uncle" camp too.

 

[Erei]

This. It is stated that the Marlinists are still culturally Imperial and many are homesick for their original homeworlds, so the promise of self- governance with no reprisals would be extremely appealing.

A country they fled because they were persecuted for their belief on how it's ruled.
And the promise of an authoritarian ruler are worth as much as my monopoly money.

How many time did an authoritarian ruler kept his/her word in that aspect ? I think none so far.

 

[Jaden Capek]

So even though the NMLA was a fake terrorist group organised by senators who wanted a coup to get rid of the Emperor, the Marlinists are somehow to blame anyway.

That year in cryostasis obviously froze her brain. Tell her where to stuff it.

It literally says that the Emperor now accepts that Marlinists are not terrorists or revolutionaries

 

[Jaden Capek]

A country they fled because they were persecuted for their belief on how it's ruled.
And the promise of an authoritarian ruler are worth as much as my monopoly money.

How many time did an authoritarian ruler kept his/her word in that aspect ? I think none so far.

Also true. I imagine the Marlinist people will have some strong opinions on the matter.

 

[Phill P]

It literally says that the Emperor now accepts that Marlinists are not terrorists or revolutionaries

But also says she must be watchful for future NMLA appearances, so the Marlinists must swear loyalty to her even though they had nothing to do with it.

 

[Jaden Capek]

But also says she must be watchful for future NMLA appearances, so the Marlinists must swear loyalty to her even though they had nothing to do with it.

Both Marlinists and Imperials agree that the NMLA is bad, so that's not really an issue. I think she just wants us to swear fealty to get rid of the democratic activism that's been giving the Duvals headaches for centuries once and for all.
, by recognizing her right to rule.

 

[Erei]

But also says she must be watchful for future NMLA appearances, so the Marlinists must swear loyalty to her even though they had nothing to do with it.

It's smart and political.
If they swear to her, that mean they acknowledged her legitimacy as ruler of the Empire. Which put a definitive end to their claim of a democrately elected Emperor (or whatever you'd call them).
Essentially, it ends the Marlinist as we know them, since everything about them, even the name, is against the Empire leadership.

 

[Phill P]

Both Marlinists and Imperials agree that the NMLA is bad, so that's not really an issue.

The Marlinists always did. The NMLA wasn't their idea. But they were blamed and hounded out of their homes for it anyway. I wouldn't trust it not to happen again as soon as the Empire needs another witch to burn. The Senate created the NMLA, not the Marlinists themselves, and this smacks of blaming the victim.

 

[Esteban]

Hmm. A superficial analysis:

...security agencies would have a permanent "presence" (uh huh. sure that sounds cozy.)
...in return for "swearing allegiance to the throne." (gag)
...must be watchful for any Neo-Marlinist resurgence (based upon who's view?)

I don't know, but it seems to me that Marlinists, after what they have been through, would react something like:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llKB2Sol-uo

...and you let me the hell outta this meeting!

 

[Phill P]

It's smart and political.
If they swear to her, that mean they acknowledged her legitimacy as ruler of the Empire. Which put a definitive end to their claim of a democrately elected Emperor (or whatever you'd call them).
Essentially, it ends the Marlinist as we know them, since everything about them, even the name, is against the Empire leadership.

Yes I understand that, just not sure why any Marlinist would accept it. They are independent now. Have a trade deal with the Empire by all means, and assurances from the Empire that they will be otherwise left alone, in return for which they leave the Empire alone to run itself, but swearing allegiance is a step too far.

 

[BDelacroix]

It's a mix of elective monarchy and Roman Empire.
In the Roman Empire, the Emperor was the absolute leader, but the Senators were elected by the people. They did all the day to day political life of the Empire, and voted for the laws and such. But the Emperor was above them, and if he wanted something, he had what he wanted, period. But as the Emperor as one of the biggets Empire of the world at the time, he rarely had the time nor the inclination to rule over every little laws.

For example, Caligula declared war to Poseidon, and had his legion stab the sea. Fairly certain the senators were not behind that one. It ended up as a small victory-status quo for Rome, if you are curious.

Eventually, like any authoritarian system, it's a difficult balance of power. The Emperor have all the rights, but the more they push a direction the senators don't want (which is not necessarily what the people want, BTW), the more likely said senators decide it's best to get rid of the Emperor and have a new one. And then suddenly a very sad accident happen, RIP the Emperor.
On the other hand, siding with the Emperor can be beneficial for when you need it later on.
Backroom politic and all that.


BTW, from wiki about Empire senator (the ED ones) :

That seems democratic

The empire never claimed to be democratic.
Also, really, you pulled out Caligula as an example? C'mon. I'm no fan of the roman empire's shenanigans but caligula was a nutter.

 

[Jaden Capek]

The empire never claimed to be democratic.
Also, really, you pulled out Caligula as an example? C'mon. I'm no fan of the roman empire's shenanigans but caligula was a nutter.

Problem is, if the Empire gets their own Caligula in the future, the Marlinists are screwed.