Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[VR Golgot]

SC just requires a very specific brand of masochism

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/tusqyv

Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/tusqyv/whats_the_intended_way_to_enjoy_this_game_given/

No, it's all good. Yes, it's fun and, being intellectually honest, people play to have fun rather than test things, that part is emergent. The two aren't mutually exclusive after all.
But I'm sure the devs know about these bugs. The elephant in the room is that it's been 10 years. It's more like a series of conceptual themes with narrative conveyance coming from the environments (beautiful) than a robust series of gameplay loops :[ There's a lot to do but the UX is also bad and it's only through perseverance that I had the experience I did.
How's the FPS side of things, solid?

 

[Darkfyre99]

Fast food delivery profession is in!

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/tvgy3k

Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/tvgy3k/whatevers_in_this_burrito_must_be_worth_the_price/

Or the game is made of spaghetti. Take your pick

And here I repeatedly complain about ED’s “You could buy your own ship for that, what do you need me for?” mission rewards…

 

[Viajero]

I think you have missed the point of my post, which was simply to state that the "released status" of a game doesn't matter anymore for a lot of gamers. Refusing to play a game only because it is not in a "released" state is a personnal choice.

Last year 2 of the best games I played (Teardown & Valheim) still don't have a "released" label on it...
Games from Tuxedo Labs released : 0
Games from Iron Gate AB released : 0
Hours spent on tho

Gobsmacked at the casual destruction of basic consumer rights and the obliteration of essential accountability for delivery by someone gladly taking our money.

Also, Valheim and Teardown are light years ahead of SC in terms of accountability and delivery.

Valheim took around 3 years from Alpha to formal release as Early Access. Teardown took even less from announcement to Early Access release, with the developer now confirming actually preparing for full release. Both have been openly subject to game press reviews, and user reviews with scores at least in the Steam platform.

In the mean time Star Citizen has been in alpha for 8 years (and in development for 10+ years) with not even a formal Early Access release announcement (other than the legal terminology used in some support comms and which will break many of the original statements and promises made by CIG to only release when ready), never mind full release.

 

[Sunyavadin]

And here I repeatedly complain about ED’s “You could buy your own ship for that, what do you need me for?” mission rewards…

Ah, but it's the Uber model.
Sure, you could maintain a fleet of ships but then you have the cost of their upkeep, their fuel, their insurance, any taxes. Better to pass all those costs on to "independent contractors" who do all the transporting of your goods for you.

 

[amigacooke]

Last year 2 of the best games I played (Teardown & Valheim) still don't have a "released" label on it...
Games from Tuxedo Labs released : 0
Games from Iron Gate AB released : 0
Hours spent on those games : 100+

Do they still have an alpha label?

 

[LittleAnt]

Also, Valheim and Teardown are light years ahead of SC in terms of accountability and delivery.

They don't have the released label on them and give a lot of fun.
SC doesn't have the released label on it and gives a lot of fun.

See the point ? Being released or not is not a requirement anymore to enjoy a game. Continue to point again and again that SC is not released if you want, a lot of gamers don't care anymore about the "released" label.

 

[Darkfyre99]

And any other game really.
Truth is that there aren't that many going for the whole pg full explorable planets approach.

True. The only games I know of that are going for the whole procedural generation full explorable planets approach are Elite Dangerous (where space is modeled realistically), No Man's Sky (where it's distractingly unrealistic), and Empyrion Galactic Survival (where it's equally unrealistic, but hides it much better than NMS... and has a much better flight model to boot).

Star Citizen's worlds are hand crafted using "procedural tools", just like Space Engineers, Starbase, and Dual Universe. There are also other games out there that I remember were boasting of the same thing, but their names elude me at the moment.

But whole planets are merely a setting. What's most important IMO is the gameplay. A game with the gameplay features I find enjoyable will be enjoyable on full sized worlds, tiny worlds, or even one section of a world. A game that lacks the gameplay features I enjoy won't be enjoyable, regardless of how well their worlds are developed. A game that features gameplay I don't enjoy I will avoid like the plague... unless there's enough enjoyable gameplay features to compensate for that.

Despite being in its twelfth year of development, and having squandered over half a billion dollars of funding, the gameplay features I originally backed Star Citizen for are mostly completely missing, with a few so pitifully underdeveloped that they might as well be missing. In addition, Star Citizen has introduced gameplay that I find so utterly unappealing, especially "save points," that when combined with the game not being released on time, I did something I do so rarely that it's only happened three times: I demanded a refund. And unlike the other two, Cloud Imperium Games still hasn't done anything that's made me reconsider my refund.

Meanwhile, small indie Early Access games like this, which has a development team of two, keeps on giving me those "Hurry up and take my money" moments. And like nearly all Early Access games and playable alphas I've participated in the past, the emphasis is on being playable, rather than using "it's an Alpha" as an excuse.

edited to fix some bad grammar I just noticed

 

[Surefoot]

They don't have the released label on them and give a lot of fun.

They are released in "early access" and are actually being reviewed (on Steam platform). You can read the reviews, and even judge by yourself.
Also they are light years ahead of SC with actually complete game loops, and a working game engine. SC is still missing its fundamental code elements like networking, working physics engine, etc.
Oh and also, like Darkfyre pointed out just above, no one in these games have to use excuses to justify constant bugs, insta death due to physics glitches, etc. These games can be judged on their own merits, without someone pouring tons of copium in order to make them palatable.

SC doesn't have the released label on it and gives a lot of fun.

Again, you are distorting the reality to make a useless point: obviously you have no idea what "released" means, or you do not want to use its actual meaning... Shifting the meaning of words is a devious tactics. Please keep your statements to actual facts. CiG promises are NOT facts, as we all know, so the only facts you can rely on are what we have installed on our SSD currently, and the reality of that does not match your discourse.

See the point ? Being released or not is not a requirement anymore to enjoy a game.

Having a working core engine is. That's the point where the game systems work together, and the game starts looking like a proper game, not like a 3D engine demo. SC is not there yet.

 

[thistle]

And any other game really.
Truth is that there aren't that many going for the whole pg full explorable planets approach.

Hand crafted fully explorable levels in 1/6 size.

 

[Viajero]

They are released in "early access" and are actually being reviewed (on Steam platform). You can read the reviews, and even judge by yourself.
Also they are light years ahead of SC with actually complete game loops, and a working game engine. SC is still missing its fundamental code elements like networking, working physics engine, etc.
Oh and also, like Darkfyre pointed out just above, no one in these games have to use excuses to justify constant bugs, insta death due to physics glitches, etc. These games can be judged on their own merits, without someone pouring tons of copium in order to make them palatable.


Again, you are distorting the reality to make a useless point: obviously you have no idea what "released" means, or you do not want to use its actual meaning... Shifting the meaning of words is a devious tactics. Please keep your statements to actual facts. CiG promises are NOT facts, as we all know, so the only facts you can rely on are what we have installed on our SSD currently, and the reality of that does not match your discourse.



Having a working core engine is. That's the point where the game systems work together, and the game starts looking like a proper game, not like a 3D engine demo. SC is not there yet.

Also those examples took just a few years to go from alpha to formal Early Access release. Star Citizen on the other hand is still in alpha and has not even accepted the consequences and accountability that come with a mere Early Access status for 10+ years as those other examples have in a fraction of the time (and were CIG to do it it would break the promise to only release when ready anyways), nevermind those of an actual release.

There are not many games out there that are still in alpha after 10+ years and almost 500 millions wasted. Not even announced Early Access. SC is different and special indeed but because of zero releases in all that time and with all that money.

 

[StuartGT]

Gobsmacked at the casual destruction of basic consumer rights and the obliteration of essential accountability for delivery by someone gladly taking our money.

Also, Valheim and Teardown are light years ahead of SC in terms of accountability and delivery.

Valheim took around 3 years from Alpha to formal release as Early Access. Teardown took even less from announcement to Early Access release, with the developer now confirming actually preparing for full release. Both have been openly subject to game press reviews, and user reviews with scores at least in the Steam platform.

In the mean time Star Citizen has been in alpha for 8 years (and in development for 10+ years) with not even a formal Early Access release announcement (other than the legal terminology used in some support comms and which will break many of the original statements and promises made by CIG to only release when ready), never mind full release.

They don't have the released label on them and give a lot of fun.

You literally quoted a post that clearly shows both Valheim and Teardown are released as Early Access, while you state they don't have a released label on them.

 

[StuartGT]

The pretty cloud graphics of Hurston attracts some attention on /r/Gaming. In the comments, plenty of discussion of the actual gameplay included, delays, promises, scope creep, how-long-until-beta, etc, etc. Plus:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/tup7eo/_/i356opl

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/tup7eo/sunsetwait_for_it/i356opl/

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/tup7eo/_/i356sgi

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/tup7eo/sunsetwait_for_it/i356sgi/

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

They don't have the released label on them and give a lot of fun.
SC doesn't have the released label on it and gives a lot of fun.

See the point ? Being released or not is not a requirement anymore to enjoy a game. Continue to point again and again that SC is not released if you want, a lot of gamers don't care anymore about the "released" label.

OK, but there is no Quantum and it was scheduled for 3.17. We can list the number of scheduled items that were supposed to be released but didn't make it. The Quanta scam is just the latest example. 10 years of failed milestones. No early access title stays that long in EA. Only Scam Citizen does. And those who think it's fun don't last through EA.

 

[amigacooke]

They don't have the released label on them and give a lot of fun.
SC doesn't have the released label on it and gives a lot of fun.

See the point ? Being released or not is not a requirement anymore to enjoy a game. Continue to point again and again that SC is not released if you want, a lot of gamers don't care anymore about the "released" label.

Have CIG reached the point yet where they can promise that game progress will not be wiped? Just asking for a friend

 

[StuartGT]

Have CIG reached the point yet where they can promise that game progress will not be wiped? Just asking for a friend

Nope. That's still a very long time off, many many years away.

 

[LittleAnt]

You literally quoted a post that clearly shows both Valheim and Teardown are released as Early Access, while you state they don't have a released label on them.

You need to start from the beginning, the post of Metatheurgist.
SC released as alpha. Other released as early access.
None of them gold. Simple as that. Metatheurgist was talking about gold standard = released game like EDO or CP2077.

 

[Theodrid]

I think you have missed the point of my post, which was simply to state that the "released status" of a game doesn't matter anymore for a lot of gamers. Refusing to play a game only because it is not in a "released" state is a personnal choice.

Last year 2 of the best games I played (Teardown & Valheim) still don't have a "released" label on it...
Games from Tuxedo Labs released : 0
Games from Iron Gate AB released : 0
Hours spent on those games : 100+

Really partial to comparing apples with rotten oranges aren't you Ant?

If I'm wrong could you show me in the RELEASED 'Valheim' early access, fully reviewable and stable game where I can buy my £40,000 axe jpeg package? - I hear it chops trees above it's weight...........smh

Released is the difference Ant
Fleecing backers for a decade is the difference Ant
Many, many fully functional game loops is the difference Ant
Stability is a difference Ant

...and there are a thousand more differences as well Ant....how dare you compare a reputable, reliable and small studio like Iron Gate with the omnishambles that is CIG.

 

[LittleAnt]

If I'm wrong could you show me in the RELEASED 'Valheim' early access, fully reviewable and stable game where I can buy my £40,000 axe jpeg package? - I hear it chops trees above it's weight...........smh

If I'm wrong, could you show me where you are forced to buy ships with real money in SC past the base package ?
Buy ship if you want to support CIG, nothing more.
And if you want a review on the game, you can look at the 47 830 posts in this forum, it's more than all reviews on Valheim + Teardown on Steam. You can hop in Free Fly too to review it by yourself. You are correct on the less stable SC compared to the 2 other games, SC is still alpha. An enjoyable alpha !

 

[Intrepid3D]

It is, but gaming on a Threadripper isn't going to yield good results in any game, it's a workstation CPU, not a gaming CPU.

Exactly this, especially first gen (Zen 1) Threadripper which looks like this....

https://imgur.com/9uiPxVo

Source: https://i.imgur.com/9uiPxVo.jpg

https://imgur.com/CEeaOJS

Source: https://i.imgur.com/CEeaOJS.jpg


For one while the IPC is good for a CPU of its time the cores are very low clocked, already a bad idea for any game, on top of that its the worlds first MCM X86 CPU, while in many ways that is good its really bad for games which make a lot of call requests from the CPU, because Threadripper is multiple dies there is a very high latency as those call requests move between dies, that latency is really bad for games.

Yamiks is clueless about hardware, he thinks its a good CPU because its expensive, it is a very good CPU, at least it was for its time, its been superseded by a factor of 6 by AMD's own latest HEDT CPU, my own midrange mainstream AMD Ryzen 5800X 8 core is at worst as fast as this 16 core in multi threaded workloads and 2X as fast in single threaded.
He's using the worst CPU possible for any game and Star Citizen need the CPU to be half decent.

For anyone interested AMD's latest Threadripper looks like this, its a Zen 3, 64 core 128 thread monster, the most powerful CPU on earth, and its good at gaming, AMD re-engineered the Infinity Fabric, that's AMD's glue that make multiple CPU chiplets act as one.

https://imgur.com/s8DgasB

Source: https://i.imgur.com/s8DgasB.jpg

https://imgur.com/tKal5DL

Source: https://i.imgur.com/tKal5DL.jpg


The next generation has already been announced.
Genoa: 96 Zen 4 cores, 192 threads.
Bergamo: 128 Zen 4 cores, 256 threads.

 

[StuartGT]

SC doesn't have the released label on it and gives a lot of fun.

SC released as alpha.

Now you're contradicting yourself.