Tarsiers and other small mammals. Eligible as habitat animals?

[random goat]

So while I was updating the meta-wishlist I encountered two votes for an animal (or more so a group of animals) that had not made it to the list until now: tarsiers.
To avoid derailing the meta-wishlist thread I decided to open this new discussion here.

I knew tarsiers are very small animals but to confirm this I immediately hopped on Wikipedia to check their size and it turns out they are pretty much like a mouse. As things stand now in the meta-wishlist, I consider that pretty much every animal which is smaller than a common rat or a big mouse is not eligible as habitat animal (therefore not making it to the list). For instance, jerboa are currently left out. How would people treat tarsiers in this regard? Would you consider them as habitat animals potentially?
Share your thoughts.

 

[Mjmannella]

On paper, tarsiers are probably active enough to be habitat animals (ignoring size). I believe the developers still want exhibit animals left to "creepy crawlies" (anything that isn't a bird or mammal). But in practice, I would strongly wish against tarsiers since small animals are a major pain to deal with in-game.

 

[Doran]

They sit in one place and look around. Thats what they mostly do if not hunting. Perfect for current exhibit system.
Would like them as first exhibit mammals. Put them on branch, give them som neat animations and thats all.

 

[coatifan]

So while I was updating the meta-wishlist I encountered two votes for an animal (or more so a group of animals) that had not made it to the list until now: tarsiers.
To avoid derailing the meta-wishlist thread I decided to open this new discussion here.

I knew tarsiers are very small animals but to confirm this I immediately hopped on Wikipedia to check their size and it turns out they are pretty much like a mouse. As things stand now in the meta-wishlist, I consider that pretty much every animal which is smaller than a common rat or a big mouse is not eligible as habitat animal (therefore not making it to the list). For instance, jerboa are currently left out. How would people treat tarsiers in this regard? Would you consider them as habitat animals potentially?
Share your thoughts.

They’re too active IMO. And I love small mammals, so I hope we get a tiny primate or two (like a tamarin or marmoset)

 

[DarthQuell]

Here's my take: if we were to get tiny animals like that (including other primates like marmosets, tamarins, maybe add bats into the mix), I can see a modular building that behaves similar to the aviaries/lagoons of JWE 2. where you add them together to make a larger enclosure.
These can be perfect for smaller animals that won't necessarily make sense in larger habitats but also won't fit glass terrariums

 

[ElectricMonk]

There’s nothing inherent about exhibits that necessitates that animals remain mostly motionless - looped animations would work fine for mammals and small birds. To the best of my knowledge all that’s been officially said is that exhibit mammals and birds weren’t planned at launch… I think they’re too small to be habitat animals so I hope exhibit mammals and birds become a thing, though I doubt they will :/

 

[biggest_dreamer]

I’m fine with the current setup of exhibits remaining herps and inverts. I think it’d bug me more if we ended up with a single random mammal or two in that list at this point. So I don’t really see an issue with saying that tarsiers don’t have a place in habitats or exhibits with their current setups.

 

[Bearcat9948]

They would work as exhibit animals, along with sloths, if we got further customization. Like the ability to set windows, grounds, ceilings to null etc and make custom fenced exhibits. You might want a larger exhibit size for a tarsier though. So maybe the ability to "join" to exhibits together into a larger one if they're next to each other would be good too.

 

[SpookDoc]

With the Meta-List and it’s rules in mind (one of which being that only species that “require” less intensive new game changes/mechanics be featured), tarsier species could easily work as a habitat option. Taking into account all of Frontier’s previous decisions, they have kept all mammal inclusions as strictly habitat species, regardless of size. Before Frontier started providing DLC, there was great debate in the PZ community if Frontier would even implement the Meerkat, yet here we are over two years since release with not only habitat-based Meerkats but also a number of other small, habitat-based mammals (some of which are even smaller than a Meerkat). Yes, tarsiers are on the smaller side, but they are also highly-active, arboreal primates.

 

[ElectricMonk]

Pretty big difference-
Meerkat: 620 - 970 g
Sangihe tarsier (largest species): 100-120 g
(From Wikipedia)

The exhibit boxes are big enough for many small mammals - 4x4 m is the size of a largish room.

 

[coatifan]

Pretty big difference-
Meerkat: 620 - 970 g
Sangihe tarsier (largest species): 100-120 g
(From Wikipedia)

The exhibit boxes are big enough for many small mammals - 4x4 m is the size of a largish room.

I think part of the apprehension is that exhibits, while pretty, function as animated props in game. I think most people would rather a unique species like a tarsier or tamarin also have a unique habitat -- and I know I'd be disappointed if my beloved Golden Lion Tamarin was an exhibit species.

 

[ElectricMonk]

I think part of the apprehension is that exhibits, while pretty, function as animated props in game. I think most people would rather a unique species like a tarsier or tamarin also have a unique habitat -- and I know I'd be disappointed if my beloved Golden Lion Tamarin was an exhibit species.

They’re a lot bigger ~620g (no range given on Wikipedia) and would certainly need more space than exhibit boxes so I agree they’d be better as habitat species.

 

[MissySanchez]

So while I was updating the meta-wishlist I encountered two votes for an animal (or more so a group of animals) that had not made it to the list until now: tarsiers.
To avoid derailing the meta-wishlist thread I decided to open this new discussion here.

I knew tarsiers are very small animals but to confirm this I immediately hopped on Wikipedia to check their size and it turns out they are pretty much like a mouse. As things stand now in the meta-wishlist, I consider that pretty much every animal which is smaller than a common rat or a big mouse is not eligible as habitat animal (therefore not making it to the list). For instance, jerboa are currently left out. How would people treat tarsiers in this regard? Would you consider them as habitat animals potentially?
Share your thoughts.

Not sure how small they are compared to some other animals already accepted on the list, like pygmy marmosets and several others I can't recall, but either way I think these community wish lists should not be very limiting. That's my take.

 

[DragonNTiger]

I think part of the apprehension is that exhibits, while pretty, function as animated props in game. I think most people would rather a unique species like a tarsier or tamarin also have a unique habitat -- and I know I'd be disappointed if my beloved Golden Lion Tamarin was an exhibit species.

This basically... exhibits kinda suck. Also, anyone who uses "lack of activity" to justify going the exhibit route clearly isn't paying attention to the roster... we've got koalas, beavers and crocodilians already, and those are all extremely lazy in real life.

 

[random goat]

As I expected, I see no consensus here
Not surprising given that probably out of all animals, these ones are probably the most at the edge between habitat and exhibit. Slightly bigger than mice, but less active.
I usually try to guide myself by what is found irl so the question is: is there any zoo where tarsiers are housed in either an open-air enclosure or a terrarium bigger than 4x4m?

So far I've only found two places that aren't terrariums but they're smaller than 4x4m. Faunaland in Indonesia (pictures 1 and 2) and Lok Kawi Wildlife Park in Malaysia (picture 3). In both cases though the height of the cage is pretty high and a lot of mesh is used so I guess this could qualify as a semi-open-air cage, which could make them eligible as habitat animals? Just trying to be flexible here as @MissySanchez suggested.

 

[ElectricMonk]

G

As I expected, I see no consensus here
Not surprising given that probably out of all animals, these ones are probably the most at the edge between habitat and exhibit. Slightly bigger than mice, but less active.
I usually try to guide myself by what is found irl so the question is: is there any zoo where tarsiers are housed in either an open-air enclosure or a terrarium bigger than 4x4m?

So far I've only found two places that aren't terrariums but they're smaller than 4x4m. Faunaland in Indonesia (pictures 1 and 2) and Lok Kawi Wildlife Park in Malaysia (picture 3). In both cases though the height of the cage is pretty high and a lot of mesh is used so I guess this could qualify as a semi-open-air cage, which could make them eligible as habitat animals? Just trying to be flexible here as @MissySanchez suggested.
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given their size, and that they’re tropical, they’re likely very susceptible to changes in temperature (no source, just background knowledge) so open air would only be viable in wet tropical environments- I’d guess they’d need a lot more climate control in other biomes.

 

[lunavinceres]

G

given their size, and that they’re tropical, they’re likely very susceptible to changes in temperature (no source, just background knowledge) so open air would only be viable in wet tropical environments- I’d guess they’d need a lot more climate control in other biomes.

I quoted you mostly because you posted a picture of exactly the sort of thing I think they should add in PZ for small birds and small mammals. I imagine it being kind of a half-way between exhibit and habitat. Potentially it could be resizeable (maybe using the grid) and customizable, but less so than the standard habitats. I'd love a tarsier in game, but I do find it hard to imagine it being realised in either of the current options.

I do think this is wishful thinking on my part and probably won't happen but you never know....

 

[Bearcat9948]

As I expected, I see no consensus here
Not surprising given that probably out of all animals, these ones are probably the most at the edge between habitat and exhibit. Slightly bigger than mice, but less active.
I usually try to guide myself by what is found irl so the question is: is there any zoo where tarsiers are housed in either an open-air enclosure or a terrarium bigger than 4x4m?

So far I've only found two places that aren't terrariums but they're smaller than 4x4m. Faunaland in Indonesia (pictures 1 and 2) and Lok Kawi Wildlife Park in Malaysia (picture 3). In both cases though the height of the cage is pretty high and a lot of mesh is used so I guess this could qualify as a semi-open-air cage, which could make them eligible as habitat animals? Just trying to be flexible here as @MissySanchez suggested.
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Cincinnati Zoo has pygmy slow loris in what could essentially be considered a PZ exhibit box, though they may be a little bit bigger. Not a tarsier but the size is comparable.

 

[Markiz]

I mean in my opinion even Tamarins are too small for a game, Tarsiers would be out of the question. Sadly because I love Tamarins, especially Emperors

 

[random goat]

Reviving this to see what people think about flying squirrels. I'm thinking about perhaps allowing these in the meta-wishlist.

Would they be feasible within the current habitat setting?
Would they mandatorily be housed in an aviary-type enclosure or big terrarium?