Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Star Citizen is the only game where people demand a definition of what constitutes a game to classify it as either or not, its ridiculous,...
Whilst I get and agree with the gist, nothing can hide that this is a ten year old alpha, at which point it is worthy of critique and noteworthy as being very unusual in its own right.

I think that early access games are questionable as ethnically saleable, and yet I've purchased both Kingdoms and Castles and Valheim and enjoy them both. Notably, both are openly and frankly reviewed for what they are on Steam, where no editorial team rules, and elsewhere. And on Steam excessively and unfixed buggy output gets widely slated.

IMHO SC is way beyond the point of hiding behind game/not a game, released/not released, been done before/never been done before nonsense. Judge it for what it is against other ten year old playable projects, and make comparisons and draw conclusions based on what's there now. Everything else is window dressing, and what there is (after ten years and $500M) is all that matters.
 
Whilst I get and agree with the gist, nothing can hide that this is a ten year old alpha, at which point it is worthy of critique and noteworthy as being very unusual in its own right.

I think that early access games are questionable as ethnically saleable, and yet I've purchased both Kingdoms and Castles and Valheim and enjoy them both. Notably, both are openly and frankly reviewed for what they are on Steam, where no editorial team rules, and elsewhere. And on Steam excessively and unfixed buggy output gets widely slated.

IMHO SC is way beyond the point of hiding behind game/not a game, released/not released, been done before/never been done before nonsense. Judge it for what it is against other ten year old playable projects, and make comparisons and draw conclusions based on what's there now. Everything else is window dressing, and what there is (after ten years and $500M) is all that matters.

My quetion to you is so what?

I like the game for what it is today, it don't give a poo about any of these arguments, they only thing that matters to me is my enjoyment for what it is right now.
 
That 'P2W, what is it?' thread on spectrum is a doozy!

It is. Most are taking the narrowest definition of P2W and using that to declare SC isn't pay to win.

By which yardstick, most P2W games are not P2W.

Example: Some are saying its only P2W if it gives you a competitive advantage against other players. Well, in that case, by that definition, all those single player mobile P2W games are not actually P2W.
 
My quetion to you is so what?

I like the game for what it is today, it don't give a poo about any of these arguments, they only thing that matters to me is my enjoyment for what it is right now.

Aren't they separate issues?

Whether you enjoy it in its current state or not does not mean you can't be critical of it for still being in alpha after 10 years.

They are not mutually exclusive.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
My quetion to you is so what?

I like the game for what it is today, it don't give a poo about any of these arguments, they only thing that matters to me is my enjoyment for what it is right now.
Then by all means, knock yourself out mate. I do not think many here have questioned that some people can have fun with a broken, buggy and incomplete product. Heck, pretty sure there are products even in a worst state or more barebones than SC that may get some positive reviews too.

Aren't they separate issues?

Whether you enjoy it in its current state or not does not mean you can't be critical of it for still being in alpha after 10 years.

They are not mutually exclusive.
Indeed. That has been a false equivalency often used by some posters here to argue "this guy is having fun" ergo SC must be good. As shown multiple times there are as many people, if not more, that tried but do not have fun with SC and therefore the equivalency does not follow. Personal and anecdotal accounts can not support a universal statement.

To reasonably argue that SC is somewhat 'good' (never mind the fully universal BDSSE) from a player perspective, the argument should instead be tried from larger scale and slightly more objective metrics such as player concurrency metrics, game press reviews/rankings and scores, aggregated user reviews, units sold and revenue etc. None of these metrics in isolation can give you an accurate picture either but when put together usually you should have a reasonable answer to the "is SC any good?" discussion. You can see often some SC backers arguing the revenue element (probably about the only one that can hold any water) but when those figures come from a non publicly audited CIG tracker and are used in a 'financial blog' that omits on purpose basic elements from standard financial accounts, even that one can be doubtful.
 
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Star Citizen is the only game where people demand a definition of what constitutes a game to classify it as either or not, its ridiculous, (...)
Actually, not at all, but since you obviously never played too many computer games you wouldnt know. It's been a debate for ages, since the 90's "interactive games" (hint: they were barely so) and more recent "walking simulators". It's also debatable for those german simulator games (you know, Euro Truck Simulator etc.) as they are more like actual work. So, no, it's not the only product that falls between the cracks of proper definitions.
 
My quetion to you is so what?

I like the game for what it is today, it don't give a poo about any of these arguments, they only thing that matters to me is my enjoyment for what it is right now.
Great. Good for you. And it's great that many others also enjoy it for what it is. I'm not saying that you/they can not nor should not.

Should it ever get released, which I don't think it will, I'll wait for the reviews to come in before thinking about buying to hopefully enjoy it too.

I however believe that for a game to be ten years in development with no realistic end in sight with such a huge amount of money hoovered up, is objectively ludicrous. As are attempts to defend it from such critical observations and to hide behind Schrodinger.

Similarly, others are allowed to find the game laughably incomplete and unenjoyable, and to even argue that its a scam.

I never enjoyed Cyberpunk 2077. Play what you enjoy and enjoy what you play. I could care less what others think about Valheim, I enjoy it. ymmv.
 
SC is Early Access. Been for ten years. Excessive time with little to show for. A regressing amount of gameplay. Unconnected concepts. Unsolved technical issues. Lies and misleading marketing galore to fish for cash. It is the embodiment of unethical and dishonest business practice.
It's never make it to the dream form. Buyers can be glad they get a fraction of kickstarted gameplay. And then can console themselves that it looked good ten years ago.
 
SC is Early Access. Been for ten years. Excessive time with little to show for. A regressing amount of gameplay. Unconnected concepts. Unsolved technical issues. Lies and misleading marketing galore to fish for cash. It is the embodiment of unethical and dishonest business practice.
It's never make it to the dream form. Buyers can be glad they get a fraction of kickstarted gameplay. And then can console themselves that it looked good ten years ago.
That's the sort of hate message we love here. 90 days tops !
 

dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
That's the sort of hate message we love here. 90 days tops !
Do you disagree with any of the objective points in that post?
1. SC is Early Access. Been for ten years.
2. Unconnected concepts.
3. Unsolved technical issues.
4. Lies and misleading marketing galore to fish for cash.


This statement could be thought of a subjective, but I think most people would agree that 10 years is 'excessive time' and some at least would agree that there is little to show for it.
1. Excessive time with little to show for. A regressing amount of gameplay.

The rest of the post is subjective as it is Navi's opinion, but where exactly do you see the hate?
 
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