I hate player minor factions

[Para Handy]

I was so annoyed arriving at a neighbouring system's space station to find that the lovely female ATC voice was now replaced by some smarmy git because an uppity player minor faction had taken over. ( Kill them all! )

I mean isn't it a bit unrealistic that a PMF which seems (according to INARA that is) to have 94 supporters in squadrons and 43 individuals can control 30 systems and 80 stations and be present in 60 systems?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

PMFs are a blight, but they seem to make some people happy, so I guess we have to tolerate them.
Besides which, if we didn't have PMFs people would just do the same thing with regular minor factions, so we'd be in the same boat.

 

[Old Duck]

I wasn't overly thrilled when a PMF rolled into the system I called home. Used to be nice and private and I could casually support the local faction, then next thing I know the system starts filling with fleet carriers and this PMF is plastering their name on all the stations and outposts..

I eventually left and never went back

 

[Darrett]

It’d be nice if there were limits to the amount of expansion a PMF can do, and a tendency toward local factions reasserting control without constant, increasingly difficult intervention.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

It’d be nice if there were limits to the amount of expansion a PMF can do, and a tendency toward local factions reasserting control without constant, increasingly difficult intervention.

I'd settle for them not being allowed to control all the stations in a system. Nothing worse than a system where everything is controlled by the same faction.

 

[Morbad]

The problem with PMFs is the same problem with everything else; there is no way to hit it with permanent consequences. Even if you pour enough vicarious fire on it through the limited scope of the BGS theme-park rides to reducing the faction to proverbial ash, it can always be resurrected on a whim if there is any lack of vigilance.

 

[metatheurgist]

Why yes, they are dumb.

You can't even remove them from their home system. So there's not even any point in trying.

 

[Riverside]

It’d be nice if there were limits to the amount of expansion a PMF can do, and a tendency toward local factions reasserting control without constant, increasingly difficult intervention.

I'd like to see a mechanism where increased expansion and asset ownership required significantly more effort to achieve and maintenance to upkeep (making control of large regions a decent challenge even unopposed), possibly in conjunction with a reduction in effort to take control of a system by a native faction (PMF or otherwise) to encourage new players & groups to join in.

The problem with PMFs is the same problem with everything else; there is no way to hit it with permanent consequences. Even if you pour enough vicarious fire on it through the limited scope of the BGS theme-park rides to reducing the faction to proverbial ash, it can always be resurrected on a whim if there is any lack of vigilance.

Just like real life then

 

[CMDR The Riz]

PMFs are a blight, but they seem to make some people happy, so I guess we have to tolerate them.
Besides which, if we didn't have PMFs people would just do the same thing with regular minor factions, so we'd be in the same boat.

Whistles nervously in the background...

I'd settle for them not being allowed to control all the stations in a system. Nothing worse than a system where everything is controlled by the same faction.

A part of me believes that strategy to be somewhat detrimental on two fronts:

1. You're running missions / operations that accrue Notoriety and you get fined by the Faction you support, which means you'll be locked out of your Faction's mission boards / station services until the Notoriety burns off (i.e. you get a bugged Odyssey salvage mission and have to abandon it - see you in 20 hours, mission boards!)
2. Controlling all of the Odyssey Settlements opens up multiple fronts for hostile players to exploit - particularly ones that have high NPC ship traffic, particularly particularly Tourist Settlements.

Having a station owned by another local Minor Faction helps with #1, but could be used against you for the same reasons. I haven't really found the benefit to holding Odyssey assets BGS-wise just yet outside of generating Protect Missions.

 

[DYSEQTA]

I think PMFs are a great idea, but...

Being someone that wishes Elite Dangerous was more EVE-like in its ability to allow players to be truly present in the game with real influence. What sucks here, in my opinion, is that much like so many other things in Elite Dangerous FDev has only implemented the bare minimum of a concept and not seen the idea right through to where it should've gone.

If people like Para Handy and Old Duck take exception to some new faction rolling into 'their' system and messing up their lawn then should damn well be able to do something about it and organise a resistance to kick them the hell back out! Player factions should be able to fight for control of system directly.

By the way I hated with a passion some of the many nasty players of EVE but my hatred for them was far outwieghed by my love of the knowledge that the universe I was playing in was living and breathing, warts and all.

 

[Riverside]

I think PMFs are a great idea, but...

Being someone that wishes Elite Dangerous was more EVE-like in its ability to allow players to be truly present in the game with real influence. What sucks here, in my opinion, is that much like so many other things in Elite Dangerous FDev has only implemented the bare minimum of a concept and not seen the idea right through to where it should've gone.

If people like Para Handy and Old Duck take exception to some new faction rolling into 'their' system and messing up their lawn then should damn well be able to do something about it and organise a resistance to kick them the hell back out! Player factions should be able to fight for control of system directly.

By the way I hated with a passion some of the many nasty players of EVE but my hatred for them was far outwieghed by my love of the knowledge that the universe I was playing in was living and breathing, warts and all.

My issue with Eve (anecdotally, I never got much into it) was that it is/was dominated by a few large groups which left little room for the lone player to make much headway. I appreciate the appeal of team play, it's not something I am looking for though.

Conversely one of the things that drew me into ED was that it seemed to be much more about the individual and loose, fleeting or more permanent alliances with other individuals & small groups.

I'm not against large player groups forming and working together to achieve great things but I don't want that to be the only way or even to be perceived as the default choice (to just join an existing group as with Eve). I feel it should be more viable for lone or small groups of Cmdrs to be able to establish a foothold somewhere and not just be ground down by ever expanding large factions.

 

[Morbad]

Just like real life then

Real life is littered with extinct cultures, dead languages, and forgotten religions. Sometimes, there is enough left for careful anthropology and determined education to allow for a resurgence or passable recreation...but most are just gone.

With no way to remove a faction from it's home system or destroy any facilities, victory/defeat will always seem a bit incomplete to me.

My issue with Eve (anecdotally, I never got much into it) was that it is/was dominated by a few large groups which left little room for the lone player to make much headway.

Probably not enough arson mechanisms.

 

[DYSEQTA]

My issue with Eve (anecdotally, I never got much into it) was that it is/was dominated by a few large groups which left little room for the lone player to make much headway. I appreciate the appeal of team play, it's not something I am looking for though.

Conversely one of the things that drew me into ED was that it seemed to be much more about the individual and loose, fleeting or more permanent alliances with other individuals & small groups.

I'm not against large player groups forming and working together to achieve great things but I don't want that to be the only way or even to be perceived as the default choice (to just join an existing group as with Eve). I feel it should be more viable for lone or small groups of Cmdrs to be able to establish a foothold somewhere and not just be ground down by ever expanding large factions.

Oh I feel you. I played EVE solo with three accounts. I have no particular desire to be in a large group either. What I like is the idea that players are in some way or another actually shaping some aspect of the game with a real impact enough that FDev could actually work story around it. If a player faction started expanding too much for FDevs comfort or were obviously becoming a nuisance in some way then FDev could use the many large factions/powers/super powers to apply "pressure" and exert some level of control. Doesn't have to be all about combat either, if PMFs were actual business entities within a proper economy then BGS system states could be used to again apply preassure on a rapidly expanding PMF to stop expanding and nurture what they have taken or risk having it start to negatively effect their economics. Hey I'm just jaming here, my point is that given some real though and effort FDev could make player interaction in the game so much more than it currently is.

I think a nice balance between total freedom and no power at all could be found and right now it feels like the idea just hasn't been fleshed out enough to where it's actually good.

EDIT: Wow the typos...

 

[Riverside]

Real life is littered with extinct cultures, dead languages, and forgotten religions. Sometimes, there is enough left for careful anthropology and determined education to allow for a resurgence or passable recreation...but most are just gone.

With no way to remove a faction from it's home system or destroy any facilities, victory/defeat will always seem a bit incomplete to me.

You've never reduced a player supported faction to 1% in their home system & demotivated it's supporters sufficiently that they quit the game? Can't kill an idea though, someone else could always adopt it

A dead PMF in a system you have an interest in is a guarantee that it will never be the home system for any other PMF. Unless FDev's Hand of God changes the rules of course, but if we go down that road removing PMFs could be a thing too.

I'd prefer it if the system description describing the PMF were only visible if that faction controls the system though.

 

[GunnerBill]

I was so annoyed arriving at a neighbouring system's space station to find that the lovely female ATC voice was now replaced by some smarmy git because an uppity player minor faction had taken over. ( Kill them all! )

I mean isn't it a bit unrealistic that a PMF which seems (according to INARA that is) to have 94 supporters in squadrons and 43 individuals can control 30 systems and 80 stations and be present in 60 systems?

As we see in the world today it only takes a few dedicated lunatics to ruin it for everyone else.

 

[Jmanis]

If it wasn't PMFs, it would just be some other RNG faction. Never really understood why people specifically call out PMFs, as they're functionally no different to the proc gen factions, and most people who "play the BGS" have their origins there.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll never understand why FD allowed PMFs in the game in the first place... I think they thought they were just letting players add some background flair, rather than putting in something players would rally behind... but again... groups asked for PMFs because FD allowed it. If FD never allowed it, we'd be complaining about players rallying behind arbitrary proc gen factions Some of the biggest squadrons/groups aren't aligned with a single faction, and have no PMF core to their efforts.

I mean, what you're really saying is "I hate players influencing the BGS"... which is weird, since everyone does it with everything they do.

My issue with Eve (anecdotally, I never got much into it) was that it is/was dominated by a few large groups which left little room for the lone player to make much headway. I appreciate the appeal of team play, it's not something I am looking for though.

As someone who carved their teeth out as a solo player in EVE, I do disagree with that. I'd actually argue it's much easier to make a difference in EVE than in Elite.

 

[Chaparral]

My home system is home to an abandoned PMF that I have adopted. A different PMF moved into my home system. I did the usual stuff to reduce their influence.

I lucked out that they were a primarily a console faction, and they seemed to lose motivation for some reason...

Things worked out in the end.

 

[Riverside]

As someone who carved their teeth out as a solo player in EVE, I do disagree with that. I'd actually argue it's much easier to make a difference in EVE than in Elite.

I've heard of a few that did it yes. The perception put me off though as I described and as to whether it's easier I don't know enough about Eve to compare and am happy to defer to your expertise but I'd suggest yours is a highly subjective take dependant on what you are trying to achieve. It's certainly easier to get started (as a lone Cmdr) in ED ime.

 

[Morbad]

You've never reduced a player supported faction to 1% in their home system & demotivated it's supporters sufficiently that they quit the game?

Probably yes to the former, no idea about the latter. However, I've never so much as removed a settlement from a map, let alone reduced the population listed for a system to zero...the game doesn't offer any way to.

Can't kill an idea though

Only because shooting someone in the head is just a rebuy screen.

A dead PMF in a system you have an interest in is a guarantee that it will never be the home system for any other PMF.

The most the game allows is pushing someone back to their doorstep and changing the the order of names on the mailboxes. It could still be home to up to eight factions I'd rather didn't exist...any of which could breakout and expand at any time, without constant vigilance.

Having to maintain an interest in a system, rather than just being able to scorch-earth it into unhabitability, is part of the lack of agency/consequence I bemoan.

 

[Riverside]

Having to maintain an interest in a system, rather than just being able to scorch-earth it into unhabitability, is part of the lack of agency/consequence I bemoan.

LHS 2541 Alliance Combine retreated from Ross 128. One can never be sure how much work others did of course but I had a hand in that.

They can never return (unless the rules on permit systems change again).