Newcomer / Intro How do people kill pirates so quickly?

I'm back in my Krait Mk II doing pirate missions to try to get more experience fighting. I went over to Sosong because it's a conflict zone and they have basically two types of missions:
  • A mission that pays about 600,000 to 800,000 where you have to kill 8 to 10 pirates.
  • A mission that pays about 2.5 million up to 9 million where you have to kill 25 to 40 pirates.
It takes me about an hour on average to find and kill 8 pirates. Most of the time it takes me far longer to find them than it does to kill them. There is simply no way on earth I would ever be able to kill 25 to 40 pirates in the allotted time, so how on earth does anybody do it?

For the record: those missions are NOT marked for multi-player missions. They're just regular missions, so it must be possible somehow.

Here's a video of me today fighting. It takes me 1 minute 33 seconds to kill an expert Krait Mk II pirate.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8zCHft_ePk


What am I missing / doing wrong?
 
First question would be if we could take a look at your build. For example here's what I use :

It's worth pointing out that the plasma chargers are actually the Salvation ones you can pick up from tech brokers. Before using them I had a pair of short range rail guns (one with feedback cascade, the other with super penetrator). Gimballed frags would work very well (possibly better) instead of the Pacifiers.
 
You could probably speed up those kills a little if you make sure to engage the kinetic weapons as soon as target shields drop. But as you say, time to kill isn't so much your problem. Where are you looking for your pirates? It seems like you're in deep space here. Have you tried looking in REZ sites, for example?
 
After looking at that clip I think a lot of it comes down to watching your speed on the turn. You spent a lot of time with your speed outside the 'blue zone' (yellow in your case) when you were approaching a turn so you lost manoeuvrability there. There's also an element of trying to figure out which side they're going to pass you and make sure you use your vertical and lateral thrusters as well to help position yourself.

There's going to be players who can explain it better than me, but one thing would be trying to practice turning earlier to get position sooner. With time you'll find yourself regularly facing them while they're half way through their turn.
 
Lots of valid comments from the others on this thread.

If I may, I will summarise and add my thoughts:-

1. Where are you hunting?
Try Res sites in planetary rings. Low Res sites spawn easier targets, and there’s police to help - you only need 1 hit to get the bounty, so it’s quick and easy kills. Haz Res sites spawn more difficult opponents, and there’s no police so it takes longer to kill them. But the bounty is higher and I find there’s more targets to go at. There’s regular sites and High Res sites in between. Hunt in a Res site, whichever you prefer.

2. What ship loadout are you flying?
As Dillon Fallon says, fill out your ship build and we can take a look at that for you. Is it engineered at all? Let’s see if it’s optimised for bounty hunting.

3. Your flight skills need to improve.
I’m not the best combat pilot by any standard. But I’m alright, especially PvE…
a. So, first thing - pip management. Learn to move power to shields, engines, weapons as the situation demands. At about 54 seconds in the video you lost the target. Really, this was the time to finish the kill. Pips to engines might have kept him in your sites.
b. Flight assist off. On the turns at least, FA off will help you turn a lot faster. You don’t necessarily need FA off all the time (indeed a lot of decent combat pilots use a mixture of FA on and FA off). But FA off and a boost in to the turns will really help.
c. Learn to anticipate the turns instead of reacting to them. Again, this will help keep the target in your sites for the duration of the fight. Practice this and start to turn before you think you need to.
d. Weapons. Follow the general rule of lasers for shields and kinetic for hull. In PvE you can’t really go wrong with this.
e. (edited after reading the post above - I forgot…). Stay in the blue zone when you turn. This is essential to keep the enemy in your sites.

There’s some excellent combat tutorials on YouTube from pilots much better than me. Learn from them, and practice.

Good luck Commander
 
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I'm back in my Krait Mk II doing pirate missions to try to get more experience fighting. I went over to Sosong because it's a conflict zone and they have basically two types of missions:
Don't go into Conflict Zones after pirates, (a) you won't find them, (b) the ships in Conflict ones are setup for wars and are very hard to kill.
  • A mission that pays about 600,000 to 800,000 where you have to kill 8 to 10 pirates.
  • A mission that pays about 2.5 million up to 9 million where you have to kill 25 to 40 pirates.
It takes me about an hour on average to find and kill 8 pirates. Most of the time it takes me far longer to find them than it does to kill them. There is simply no way on earth I would ever be able to kill 25 to 40 pirates in the allotted time, so how on earth does anybody do it?
As has been said elsewhere the various grades of RES plus Nav Beacons and Compromised Nav Beacons. another trick is to fit a small cargo rack and load 1 tonne of cargo (not limpets) this will get pirates to come to you.

For the record: those missions are NOT marked for multi-player missions. They're just regular missions, so it must be possible somehow.

Here's a video of me today fighting. It takes me 1 minute 33 seconds to kill an expert Krait Mk II pirate.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8zCHft_ePk


What am I missing / doing wrong?
As I don't do missions I don't run into the problem of having a time limit to meet, a couple more higher end targets would cover the credits rewards for the first mission for example.

So consider why you are doing the missions, if it is just to boost your combat rank and make money you can just go to the locations recommended and shoot away as long as you want cashing in the bounties will still boost your reputation with the faction. If you are doing it for the non credit portion of the reward then consider adding a Ship Launched Fighter and NPC pilot they will reduce your credits earned and your speed of gaining rank but can help a lot by reducing the targets attention on you and keeping it under fire while you are out of arc.

Edited to add.
The other point is if you are not killing the pirates to rank up then choosing the places where you will find smaller lower ranked ships will get you faster kills.
 
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One of my kraits has all rails.
2 long range plasma ammo (extra fuel tank required.)
3 short range plasma ammo.
You'll crucify em.
Fly sideways hehehe using short range to full effect.
Long range to snipe their power plant.
Short range effective about 1km.
Long ones max range is 6km.
Try to build a cool running (armoured pp) with lots of thermal spread hehehe.

Oh you'll need heatsinks@!

GL o7
 
I don't often do those missions, but when I do I go to a LOW RES site with some gold or such in my cargo hold. Then I just sit around in there and let them come to me. Of course you have to be in the correct system where the pirates you are after will spawn -- depends on the mission. I have a couple of systems where I'm allied that tend to throw off massacre pirate missions for the same pirate faction, which I already know will spawn in the nearby LOW RES site. I pick the missions based on that.

There's a web tool that can list suitable systems --> https://edtools.cc/pve

Read the instructions there, they are pretty informative about the process.
 
It takes me about an hour on average to find and kill 8 pirates. Most of the time it takes me far longer to find them than it does to kill them. There is simply no way on earth I would ever be able to kill 25 to 40 pirates in the allotted time, so how on earth does anybody do it?

What am I missing / doing wrong?
That's an easy to answer question. You're doing it in the wrong place. If you want to make a lot of money, go to Ngalinn. Any ship that can land on a small or medium pad will work, but a FAS is probably the best. A Krait would work, but you don't need a fighter.

Ignore all the blue mission locations. Instead, go to the low RES in planet 5, where I kill at around 120 an hour of which half are mission targets.
 
What are you doing to find them?
It says to go to the nav beacon, which I do first, and to go to res sites if there are any, which I do. Normally when I get to the nav beacon, after about a minute, one will show up. Sometimes two. Then it's another 5 minutes or so before another shows up.

If I go out to the res sites it's normally a little faster than that but I still get these times where it's 8 or 10 minutes in between the time I kill one and the next shows up.

You could probably speed up those kills a little if you make sure to engage the kinetic weapons as soon as target shields drop.
I try to but it's nearly impossible. It takes them 2 to 4 seconds after I pull the trigger for them to actually fire. They spin up for a LONG time. Normally by the time they fire the enemy is already passed by.

Here's the ship build as it sits: https://inara.cz/cmdr-fleet/387867/3891635/

You spent a lot of time with your speed outside the 'blue zone' (yellow in your case) when you were approaching a turn so you lost manoeuvrability there.
Can you elaborate on that? I don't understand.

I have never figured out how they turn so very fast. The only way I've been able to come close to matching them is hammer the reverse thrusters and slow down so I can turn a bit faster.

At present, I'm playing mouse and keyboard as my stick is on the fritz.

If you want to make a lot of money, go to Ngalinn.

At present, I'm trying to learn how to fight. Money isn't the object just yet.

And again, thanks for all the advice, folks.
 
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Okay that makes sense. Taking a bit of time out to engineer your weapons even to g4 will make a difference to the damage you're putting out. Beam lasers also take a lot of energy from your distributor so you might even want to consider using an incendiary experimental on medium multicannons instead. One (and only one) of your multicannons should have a corrosive experimental in it too- you'll notice a big difference there. Maybe aim for something like this: https://s.orbis.zone/jc0h
Can you elaborate on that? I don't understand.

I have never figured out how they turn so very fast. The only way I've been able to come close to matching them is hammer the reverse thrusters and slow down so I can turn a bit faster.

At present, I'm playing mouse and keyboard as my stick is on the fritz.
Best picture I have is when I was messing around with heat levels but this should illustrate things.
20200804_032155~2.jpg
See that that blue area next to the throttle indicator on the right of the radar? The best manoeuvrability is achieved when your speed is in that region (improved further when you put more distributor pips in ENG). In this case I also have my throttle set to 50% which is the blue horizontal line (hotkeys are useful). I tend to keep the throttle setting there and use the forward thruster to speed up and let the speed bleed off (or use reverse thrust) when I'm in range. Manouverability can be further improved by turning off flight assist, but that's definitely something that needs a lot of practice to master. I'd leave that for later on.

You can also use vertical thruster to change your turning circle as well. If you're pitching up (generally the way you want to go based on cockpit visibility) thrusting up will tighten your turning circle which keeps your opponent closer and with a greater chance that they haven't had chance to turn themselves. You can also thrust down to loosen the turning circle and this will bring your opponent into view faster- at the cost of increasing the distance between you. Probably something best experimented with really. I'd also look up boost turns on YouTube. I'd explain here, but that's probably much better demonstrated.
 
I'm back in my Krait Mk II doing pirate missions to try to get more experience fighting.
What am I missing / doing wrong?

Firstly, thank you for including a video. So few ever do, yet it is one of the more effective means of communicating the point, and it also looks nice.

I will present my approach in a moment (I destroy a lot of pirates...), though to your closing question:
  • Nav Beacons are a good place for beginners, but this is so much the case that targets are few for the purpose of your mission. I use Resource Extraction Sites, in my case Hazardous but by all means start with Low and follow the system security around. Compromised Nav Beacons have tougher targets without really having suitably-increased payout, although they can help with reaching Elite rank.
  • You are very reluctant to use your Multi-Cannons. Almost all of the shots they did output were during your second pass, when they should be active whenever the target is in view and those gimbals are tracking the leading marker. The class 3 hardpoints atop a Krait 2 are very effective with Multi-Cannons, especially for clearing up dozens of smaller targets, but only if you activate them!
  • To that end, my impression was that you appeared to be managing your WEP power carefully, though what you really need is to put points to WEP for that. This has a predictive element to it; if an upcoming pass is likely to be lengthy and deplete your WEP, empower it first. The Krait 2 has a large, powerful class 7 Power Distributor which should support all five weapons indefinitely.
  • You are using boosts to close distance, though you can also use boosts to turn. This should be especially beginner-friendly in a Krait 2, because the spatial acceleration of its boost is quite weak. For other starships, a few more ingredients are needed to turn with boosts effectively, for which you will likely need your stick functional again.
  • Mind that boosting at a pirate usually invites boosting in return, initiating a boost-dance with very little actual damage dealt. With Lasers and Multi-Cannons, you may prefer flying sideways or backwards to keep the target in view (opposite example is Plasma Accelerators, where you need only a brief moment every few seconds).
  • All movement, both spatial and rotational, is improved with points to ENG.




The following is not necessarily advice for now, given that it is a very specialised approach and requires learning a particular way to fly. However, it is very much my answer to your opening question.

As a fair forewarning, this approach is presently not possible in PC Horizons at all, only in Odyssey. It was disrupted in Update 11, and I will consider PC Horizons retired entirely if it is not addressed in Update 12.

In short:
  • Time between kills is reduced most effectively in a Mamba, which is the fastest starship with the largest hardpoints.
  • Using a combination of boosting, Landing Gear, lateral thrust and disabling Flight Assist, it is far more agile than the numbers convey.
  • Collisions with 4 to SYS can help remove some of the target shield energy, and are not considered a hostile action.
  • Fragment Cannons ruin Power Plants, if sub-targeted.
Here is a recent video of some typical pirate kills:

Personally I prefer only needing one Fragment Cannon volley, though another approach is Rapid Fire engineering:

That style of hunting is not for everyone, though. If you are interested, please see Hunter for a complete account of the theory/ideas, outfitting, fire groups, flight method, seeking, targeting and execution.

CMDR Aleks Zuno
Imperial Navy Intervention and Rescue
 
The best manoeuvrability is achieved when your speed is in that region
I think I see what you mean.

I just tried keeping it in that area and it does seem much better. I think my problem has been that I'm an "all or nothing" throttle fighter and that's been costing me. I just fought a pirate and made a mental effort to keep the throttle in the middle and only throttle up to close the gap and back off again to the middle and I killed him in about 45 seconds.

I'll keep working on it. Thanks.
 
From page 16 of the manual:

"To the right of the speed bar is a “sweet spot” indicator shown in blue. When your ship’s speed
is within this range it will have the best manoeuvrability and smallest turning circle"



Note that is is the actual current SPEED that matters, not the position of the throttle line - just in case that wasn't clear.
 
Can you elaborate on that? I don't understand.

I have never figured out how they turn so very fast. The only way I've been able to come close to matching them is hammer the reverse thrusters and slow down so I can turn a bit faster.

At present, I'm playing mouse and keyboard as my stick is on the fritz.
To add to what @Dillon Fallon wrote above, shifting pips to engines will also increase maneuverability. Which is something I still struggle with, though I'm by no means decent combat pilot even after all these years. I come by my "novice" rating honestly, and I'm in no hurry to increase it artificially.

One thing I've always done is ignore the common advice of "submit and highwake" when confronted by successful NPC interdictions when I'm in a non-combat vehicle. Instead, I've always used low wakes, and tried to maneuver, and then keep, my ship into the six of the would be pirate until my FSD was ready. If you can succeed at that with a more unwieldly ship, then you sure can with a more nimble one.
 
Keeping the throttle in the blue zone is a bad idea. It's good that it seems to be working better than before, but you need to advance from that position because it's a bad habit to get into. You need to fly forwards, backwards, fast and slow, depending on what the NPC does. The main thing, though, is use of the lateral thrusters, which you should practice all the time.

Each time you go to the same RES, there are different spawns of NPCs - sometimes only small ships, sometimes only large, sometimes both, sometimes a lot of ships, sometimes very sparse. if you don't get continuous targets to shoot, log until you get a decent spawn. After you log, a clue to a good spawn is how many square-headed targets immediately resolve on your radar. If there are none, it's probably a slow spawn. If there is one or more, it's probably good. It's not an exact rule. but gives a good clue if you want to save time. The square headed ones are always wanted ships and mainly mission targets.

Your ship isn't fully engineered yet, so don't expect too much. As it is, it would do well in a low RES, but it's a bit limited for a haz RES. Prioritise the thrusters and power distributor, then work on the shields.

I just looked at the video. what you did wasn't too bad. I just noticed two things. firstly, your lasers are engineered for efficient, which means that they do virtually no damage at the range you engaged. You need to be closer than 1km to get the better damage from them - 500m would get the full damage, and by 1500m, they're pretty useless. You therefore need to start and stay closer to your target, and if you struggle with that, change them to long-range. Secondly, leaving your pips at 2-2-2 is a no,no. Your capacitors never moved, so you might be able to go 1.5- 3-1.5 (balanced then 1 up) and leave them like that, which would give you much more agility. Best would be more active adjustment of them, but you need to find your own default position for them. I'd probably go 0-4-2 until I take some incoming fire.
 
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It says to go to the nav beacon, which I do first, and to go to res sites if there are any, which I do. Normally when I get to the nav beacon, after about a minute, one will show up. Sometimes two. Then it's another 5 minutes or so before another shows up.

If I go out to the res sites it's normally a little faster than that but I still get these times where it's 8 or 10 minutes in between the time I kill one and the next shows up.


I try to but it's nearly impossible. It takes them 2 to 4 seconds after I pull the trigger for them to actually fire. They spin up for a LONG time. Normally by the time they fire the enemy is already passed by.

Here's the ship build as it sits: https://inara.cz/cmdr-fleet/387867/3891635/


Can you elaborate on that? I don't understand.

I have never figured out how they turn so very fast. The only way I've been able to come close to matching them is hammer the reverse thrusters and slow down so I can turn a bit faster.

At present, I'm playing mouse and keyboard as my stick is on the fritz.



At present, I'm trying to learn how to fight. Money isn't the object just yet.

And again, thanks for all the advice, folks.

While I'm not a massive combat expert, I do most of my combat in a Krait II and can chew up 30+ pirates in an hour using a different mission type and weapons load on the Krait.

Ship build - first priority is get the power distributor as close to grade 5 charge enhanced with super conduits as you can.
Next, you need more thermal damage output to drop your targets shields faster and you need the large hard points on top of the Krait that have a much greater firing arc to do it. The medium hard points cannot fire up very far where you targets will be and large hard points can reach. Put two grade 5 efficient beam lasers with thermal vent up there. If you cannot access grade 5 engineering for lasers yet, add incendury rounds to two of the large hardpoints on top and autoloader on the third. That will work almost as well, you just have to watch for reload time and running out of ammo.
The medium hard points are best with more kinetic damage. Two multi canons is easiest to fight with. Put corrosive rounds on one of them. Set up fire groups so the two large multi cannons with incendury rounds or efficient beam lasers are on fire button 1. Use those until shields drop. Then with the other multi canons on fire button two are for attacking the hull. If the target is at close range and directly in front opening up all guns can speed the kill.
If you really want to use two lasers up top but only have access to grade 3 laser engineering, I suggest grade 3 rapid fire on pulse lasers. Rapid fire is better on pulse lasers than burst lasers. It's a good option until grade 5 laser engineering for beam lasers is open to you extend time between reloads. Beam lasers with a high grade of efficient engineering drain the power distributor too quickly.
My Krait build https://s.orbis.zone/jc3t

When you take pirate kill or massacre missions there are usually mission related signal sources in the system you can fly to and find pirates of the right faction to shoot. The mission tells you to target the nav beacon to scan it which then puts the mission signal sources into you list of navigation points for the system highlighted in blue (assuming you are using the default orange colour scheme). I use mission signal sources as I find nav beacons and RES sites are generating lots of pirates that are not in the target faction.
 
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