Horizons to Odyssey whats the path where are we going this expansion?

[Muzz UK]

Lets have a discussion. Here's a rough stab at all the things we got with Horizons so what do we think is coming?

Horizons:
Landable Planets - Major
Wing Missions - Minor
Multicrew- Minor
Ship-Launched fighters- Minor
Engineers - Major
Changes and redesign of exploration including night vision - Minor
New ships Krait & Chieftain - Minor
Thargoid combat - Major
Guardians - Major
Fleet Carriers - Major
Powerplay - Major


Odyssey
Plantery settlements and on foot gameplay - Major
Fleet Carrier updates & Changes - Minor
Rework of the galaxy map and many aspects of the UI - Minor
Thargoid on foot combat - Rumoured
Rework of major game feature - Powerplay or Crime & Punishment - My opinion

What else do we think commanders?

Anything I have missed?

 

[Riverside]

Odyssey was feature complete on release, so not expecting any more features (which is not to say we won't get any, we got the Scorpion SRV).

Kinda expecting col 70 sector permits to be opened up with this narrative thread. Maybe

 

[Stealthie]

Odyssey was feature complete on release, so not expecting any more features (which is not to say we won't get any, we got the Scorpion SRV).

This.

Horizons was a "season", where you bought a "season pass" (as is common in a lot of games) on the understanding that DLC would be produced gradually and although each individual update might be small(ish) they should, cumulatively, be good value.

Odyssey was a standalone expansion which you bought on the understanding that it's a complete package and, basically, you're getting what you see... although additional updates might provide more content later.

Traditionally a "season pass" is always a bit of a gamble because you don't know whether the Dev is going to release, say, a bunch of cosmetics and call the season done or if they're going to release a variety of full-on expansions and group them into the "season".

Honestly, I feel like FDev were a victim of their own lethargy with Horizons.
They started off with a firm vision of what should be incorporated into Horizons and released all the stuff intended to be part of it.
Trouble is, they didn't bother to develop anything to follow Horizons so they just kept adding small updates randomly and giving them away for free as part of Horizons, culminating with a mish-mash of updates they called "Beyond"... which was also given away for free as part of Horizons.

And then, after keeping Horizons on life-support for half a decade, they decided that they weren't happy with how the whole "season" thing worked so they decided to make Odyssey a standalone release.

If they'd actually started to develop new expansions as soon as Horizons was released, so they had something significant ready for release a year after Horizons first arrived they might've found the "season" model more profitable and we'd have had a steady flow of new content.
As it was, they seemed to focus on tidying up Horizons constantly for half a decade, which meant they spent all that time working for free and then announced that they didn't like the idea of doing that again.

 

[Dragsham]

Odyssey was a standalone expansion which you bought on the understanding that it's a complete package

Ah but it wasn't...a complete package...it was a rolled out beta/alpha at best... the worse dlc I've ever seen..bar none.
Typical...apparently!
We should have all asked for a refund technically speaking cos it was a defective part.

 

[Stealthie]

Ah but it wasn't...a complete package...it was a rolled out beta/alpha at best... the worse dlc I've ever seen..bar none.
Typical...apparently!
We should have all asked for a refund technically speaking cos it was a defective part.

Uhuh.

Considering FDev expressed their dislike of the "season" model, they certainly expected players to still give Odyssey the same latitude that might normally be given to a "season" - whereby you think "okay, well this is something and I'm sure they'll tidy it up and add more later".

 

[Darkfyre99]

In my opinion...

The only major thing left for Odyssey is the obviously mission on-foot Thargoid and Guardian content. This was originally delayed by Frontier's optimistic belief that hardware that could barely handle Horizons in 2015 would somehow be able to cope with the new demands of Odyssey placed on hardware. This was delayed further due to Frontier having yet to the learn that allowing players ample time and incentive to test major releases can really help to find and fix game breaking bugs, resulting in the disastrous PC launch. Instead, they doubled down on treating the testing period as "pay for a sneak peek" rather than an open-to-all player alpha and beta testing phase.

When it comes minor content not on the "roadmap," I expect Frontier to rework existing Horizons POIs to Odyssey's standards.

... this has been my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Tyvolus]

This.

Horizons was a "season", where you bought a "season pass" (as is common in a lot of games) on the understanding that DLC would be produced gradually and although each individual update might be small(ish) they should, cumulatively, be good value.

Odyssey was a standalone expansion which you bought on the understanding that it's a complete package and, basically, you're getting what you see... although additional updates might provide more content later.

Traditionally a "season pass" is always a bit of a gamble because you don't know whether the Dev is going to release, say, a bunch of cosmetics and call the season done or if they're going to release a variety of full-on expansions and group them into the "season".

Honestly, I feel like FDev were a victim of their own lethargy with Horizons.
They started off with a firm vision of what should be incorporated into Horizons and released all the stuff intended to be part of it.
Trouble is, they didn't bother to develop anything to follow Horizons so they just kept adding small updates randomly and giving them away for free as part of Horizons, culminating with a mish-mash of updates they called "Beyond"... which was also given away for free as part of Horizons.

And then, after keeping Horizons on life-support for half a decade, they decided that they weren't happy with how the whole "season" thing worked so they decided to make Odyssey a standalone release.

If they'd actually started to develop new expansions as soon as Horizons was released, so they had something significant ready for release a year after Horizons first arrived they might've found the "season" model more profitable and we'd have had a steady flow of new content.
As it was, they seemed to focus on tidying up Horizons constantly for half a decade, which meant they spent all that time working for free and then announced that they didn't like the idea of doing that again.

All those years between Horizons and Odyssey, they should have been pumping out PREMIUM yearly or at least every other year content updates, but they really did nothing. They just sat on a half-baked game. And it shows. There just isnt enough cool content being added to this game, the kind that makes you go "wow, they are adding ship interiors, and boarding gameplay to Elite, and a bunch of new ground vehicles!! I got to check that out when it releases!"

 

[Factabulous]

All those years between Horizons and Odyssey, they should have been pumping out PREMIUM yearly or at least every other year content updates, but they really did nothing. They just sat on a half-baked game.

So you wanted them to charge for Beyond? Interesting idea - most people go the other way and point at the other game that's done continuous free updates like ED - NMS. But you do you

 

[Riverside]

So you wanted them to charge for Beyond? Interesting idea - most people go the other way and point at the other game that's done continuous free updates like ED - NMS. But you do you

They couldn't have charged for most of the Beyond changes, they weren't things that could have been made optional.

 

[Star Wanderer]

Lets have a discussion. Here's a rough stab at all the things we got with Horizons so what do we think is coming?

Horizons:
Landable Planets - Major
Wing Missions - Minor
Multicrew- Minor
Ship-Launched fighters- Minor
Engineers - Major
Changes and redesign of exploration including night vision - Minor
New ships Krait & Chieftain - Minor
Thargoid combat - Major
Guardians - Major
Fleet Carriers - Major
Powerplay - Major


Odyssey
Plantery settlements and on foot gameplay - Major
Fleet Carrier updates & Changes - Minor
Rework of the galaxy map and many aspects of the UI - Minor
Thargoid on foot combat - Rumoured
Rework of major game feature - Powerplay or Crime & Punishment - My opinion

What else do we think commanders?

Anything I have missed?

If we get Thargoids on foot as part of Odyssey then:

• New Anti - Thargoid Weapons
• New Engineering for Anti-Thargoid Weapons

So it's the same thing Horizon got when we got Thargoids in Space.

Then they will probably continue to add:

• New Landeble Atmospheric Planets.
• EVA
• Ship Interiors
• New Missions
• Story

Lots of fun things to look forward too.

 

[varonica]

Lets have a discussion. Here's a rough stab at all the things we got with Horizons so what do we think is coming?

Horizons:
Landable Planets - Major
Wing Missions - Minor
Multicrew- Minor
Ship-Launched fighters- Minor
Engineers - Major
Changes and redesign of exploration including night vision - Minor
New ships Krait & Chieftain - Minor
Thargoid combat - Major
Guardians - Major
Fleet Carriers - Major
Powerplay - Major


Odyssey
Plantery settlements and on foot gameplay - Major
Fleet Carrier updates & Changes - Minor
Rework of the galaxy map and many aspects of the UI - Minor
Thargoid on foot combat - Rumoured
Rework of major game feature - Powerplay or Crime & Punishment - My opinion

What else do we think commanders?

Anything I have missed?

So landing on atmospheric bodies doesn't count as major...or indeed anything at all?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

So landing on atmospheric bodies doesn't count as major...or indeed anything at all?

Well given that they're only 'tenuous' atmospheres and they do nothing but change the color of the sky, I'd not call it 'major'

 

[dm06]

Anything I have missed?

What is missed here is "roadmap" which should include:

• all planned features (no release dates, order does not matter)
• what feature is in development now (no release date or planned release date which is OK to be shifted, up to years from planned)
• or it is bugfixing

The features could be removed/rejected due to "not very good idea". Or added by opposite reasons.

That's basically all I would like to know about products in development.
The list of all planned features will just eliminate such threads.

Lets have a discussion.

I see zero reasons to discuss anything, there's just not enough info, being fortune-tellers is not applicable for productions.
Let's complete the discussion.

 

[Stealthie]

All those years between Horizons and Odyssey, they should have been pumping out PREMIUM yearly or at least every other year content updates, but they really did nothing. They just sat on a half-baked game. And it shows. There just isnt enough cool content being added to this game, the kind that makes you go "wow, they are adding ship interiors, and boarding gameplay to Elite, and a bunch of new ground vehicles!! I got to check that out when it releases!"

See, that's the thing.

FDev either didn't put much effort into ED or they didn't have the ability to polish Horizons and develop new content at the same time.

In either case, the result was that they got sucked into spending all their time and effort on maintaining Horizons - a thing that they'd already been paid for - and scraped along, adding small things to maintain interest in the game, instead of developing a new expansion that would generate revenue.

Having done that, they shouldn't have been surprised to find that the whole "season" thing didn't work well for them.
Horizons ended up being an "Epoch" rather than a "Season".

 

[dj_wylie]

If we get Thargoids on foot as part of Odyssey then:

• New Anti - Thargoid Weapons
• New Engineering for Anti-Thargoid Weapons

So it's the same thing Horizon got when we got Thargoids in Space.

Then they will probably continue to add:

• New Landeble Atmospheric Planets.
• EVA
• Ship Interiors
• New Missions
• Story

Lots of fun things to look forward too.

EVA, Atmospheric landings, Ship interiors - most of the community have been waiting for these things for years! Ive never heard any noises from fdev that they will do them. The opposite actually as they have said before ship interiors arent in their plans. Sorry I just dont think these are likely.

However since we are trying to be positive here, should we also throw in Base Building? It was on the original Project Watson leak from a few years back after all.

 

[EdzUp]

A lot of the stuff listed was also in "Beyond" season of "bug fixes" so tbh its apples and oranges as a comparison.

 

[Star Wanderer]

EVA, Atmospheric landings, Ship interiors - most of the community have been waiting for these things for years! Ive never heard any noises from fdev that they will do them. The opposite actually as they have said before ship interiors arent in their plans. Sorry I just dont think these are likely.

However since we are trying to be positive here, should we also throw in Base Building? It was on the original Project Watson leak from a few years back after all.

Looking back at Development of ED, i am pretty sure they said hard No to player owned bases. But Ship Interiors and EVA they had it in the plans from the start.
Yea i also was a bit dissapointed when CM last year said it wasn't in their plan, but than they went and added them to Fleet Carrier. Looks like they changed their minds and went with original plan, or maybe they were just talking about near-future plan like 6 month or so, hence it wasn't in the works yet.

But FC Interiors is the best guess that Ship Interiors are comming. Because they had no reason at all to do FC Interior - no one was even asking for them. So maybe it's a part of their long term plan.

 

[GraphiteGB]

But FC Interiors is the best guess that Ship Interiors are comming. Because they had no reason at all to do FC Interior - no one was even asking for them. So maybe it's a part of their long term plan.

People were asking for a bridge to stand on in there FC for ages and to watch the jump from inside...
With first person EDO camera and leaving the Ship that became possible...
Teleporting from personal ship to FC bridge would have sucked... But the walking to bridge of the FC is a chore in other games as well.
In EDO you can still access the FC menus from any location. removing the requirement to be at the bridge every time realy wish other games did the same...

 

[Star Wanderer]

In EDO you can still access the FC menus from any location. removing the requirement to be at the bridge every time realy wish other games did the same...

That's exactly the point. It doesn't adds anything but immersion to the game. So why spend crucial development time when you get massive heat from your latest DLC? Is why i think it's a part of a bigger long term plan where they want to add Ship Interrios to most ship. And they will do it regardless of the state of the game, like they did with FC Interior.

 

[londonx]

This.

Horizons was a "season", where you bought a "season pass" (as is common in a lot of games) on the understanding that DLC would be produced gradually and although each individual update might be small(ish) they should, cumulatively, be good value.

Odyssey was a standalone expansion which you bought on the understanding that it's a complete package and, basically, you're getting what you see... although additional updates might provide more content later.

Traditionally a "season pass" is always a bit of a gamble because you don't know whether the Dev is going to release, say, a bunch of cosmetics and call the season done or if they're going to release a variety of full-on expansions and group them into the "season".

Honestly, I feel like FDev were a victim of their own lethargy with Horizons.
They started off with a firm vision of what should be incorporated into Horizons and released all the stuff intended to be part of it.
Trouble is, they didn't bother to develop anything to follow Horizons so they just kept adding small updates randomly and giving them away for free as part of Horizons, culminating with a mish-mash of updates they called "Beyond"... which was also given away for free as part of Horizons.

And then, after keeping Horizons on life-support for half a decade, they decided that they weren't happy with how the whole "season" thing worked so they decided to make Odyssey a standalone release.

If they'd actually started to develop new expansions as soon as Horizons was released, so they had something significant ready for release a year after Horizons first arrived they might've found the "season" model more profitable and we'd have had a steady flow of new content.
As it was, they seemed to focus on tidying up Horizons constantly for half a decade, which meant they spent all that time working for free and then announced that they didn't like the idea of doing that again.

I disagree, they concluded that the public didn't like paying upfront for a "Season" of promised updates due to the poor (v expectation) sales of the DLC and saw an issue with Horizons going way over its original intended time span by a year and the community perception of half-baked content, a combination of both would have been a big disruption to the original funding model. It was stated as such by the time it was finishing around 2017. Beyond Season was basically a gift to the community and was striclty limited to one year, at the time it was painted as a sort of apology for the protracted completion and the resulting loose ends created by the long list of Horizons promises by refreshing some of the untouched core gameplay loops. But I would imagine it was also about re-enforcing the core product for the impending long development gap of the New Era.

New Era was obviously a huge decision and definitely came off the back of the problems encountered with Horizons, Odyssey is almost like a Horizons feature set refresh in parts. For example the mini premium content (mission/campaign?) packs that were meant to appear in 2018 were abandoned which meant more funding loss. Maybe the scope of New Era expanded over the course of 2018, or its development capacity had to be reinforced by cutting other stuff. Would be interesting to see how development and marketing decisions moved from Horizons to New Era.

If you look at the business model, they are obviously focussed on the DLC as long term revenue approach, something said at the time of the kickstarter and something you see in all their titles, a mix of free updates to keep the base game and community engagement fresh and regular premium content packs to create the revenue boosts.

For Elite Dangerous I would say that the Premium Content path/trajectory was always going to be planet-type access, Horizons as barren rocky and icy planets and Odyssey with a re-imagining of those plus with the introduction of thin atmospheres. I suspect the pre-Horions plan would have seen access to other more major planet types follow on from Horizons but the Horions tech proved too cumbersome and hence New Era.

So yeah I would imagine from a business-hat you would want to basically ramp up the output of premium DLCs for a title that is 7 years old and that has only had 2 x DLCs, both of which didnt perform to expectations. It still makes a profit and has a large hungry gaming community so doesn't make sense to bin the entire franchise. I personally feel that ship based content and missions will become the free updates while the big new content will be access to some of the major planet types and that those assets will be milked, so we will see a return to the more rapid DLC launch cycle (2 years?) providing access to incrementally more complex planet types.