[Suggestion] How Huge ships might work

[Tividar]

The Panther Clipper, Boa, Imperial Explorer, and [Nameless Federal Cruiser] would all be welcome additions to Elite. As Huge ships, they wouldn't fit on any of the existing Large pads (and couldn't get through the mail slot). But they don't really need to do they?

Add a "ship hanger" optional module and you could store and use the smaller "ship-launched-ship" (SLS) for interacting with Stations and Planetary bases that lack Huge facilities. The smaller ships could be deployed in the same way we deploy Fighters and SRVs. The Dismiss/Recall ship command available to an active SRV could be used here as well. Note: this is not the Carrier Hanger module. More like an SLF Hanger. No Landing Pads, no outfitting services.

Allow transfer of Cargo between the Huge ship and its smaller companion. We already have the interface from working with the Carrier.

Allow the Huge ship's AMFU to repair/rearm ships in its Hanger, and allow ships in the Hanger to refuel from Hydrogen stores in the Huge ships Cargo.

The Huge ship would have a traditional fuel tank, but since it can't refuel at a station, it would need Hydrogen Cargo donated (same UI as for a Carrier). To rearm the Huge ship, we need a new Commodity type (a generic ammunition item). "Convert" the rearming costs to tonnage at a standard rate (20,000 Cr per Ton?). Collectively, to refuel and rearm your ship, you launch a Ship-Launched-Ship, land at a station and take on Hydrogen and Ammunition Cargo. Return to your Huge ship and transfer the cargo to the Fuel Tank and Ammunition Stores. Excess goes to Cargo (which can be transferred to the Huge ship later as needed).

Repairs to the Huge ship are handled via repair limpets (slow) or by visiting a Carrier Construction Dock and requesting repair via the Communication [Contact] Panel (where you'd normally request docking permission. The Carrier Construction Dock would be the only way to repair structural damage or damage to the engine module.

For wing-play, allow wing-mates to dock if there's available hanger space (same UI as for a SLF). As a non-persistent asset, if the Huge ship logs out, the wing-mate is left in normal space at the Huge ship's location (exactly as if a CMDR logged out while not docked with a station).

Allow a crewman to be assigned to (turreted) weapons on the huge ship. The benefit is turrets now ignore chaff in the same way a multi-crew gunner ignores chaff. Huge ships are not going to be dog-fighters, and functional Turrets would be a necessity against smaller ships. I'd unlock the 3rd crewman for a second active SLF/SLS as well.

A fabrications module that converted mineable commodities into generic "Ammunition Cargo" would allow a Huge ship to fulfill a deep-space exploration mission for as long as its powerplant stayed functional.

With this implementation, a Huge ship could be configured as a mobile base for a solo player - a non-persistent asset without an upkeep cost.

 

[aRJay]

My issue with this is it is too carrier like.

Your SLS system needs to be more of a cargo transfer tug setup again with SLF like capabilities but a two part system launched from a module in an internal slot not a hanger. Two part because it is a cockpit module with you or an NPC in and an engine module separated by the string of cargo canisters you are transferring. No need to waste space on a hanger and pads.

As they have ship type drives refuelling can be done by scooping or at a station you could request them to refuel you which they could do with limpets, repairs could be done the same way.

 

[GroG79]

So what after we get Huge ships? Next up Giga ships? And then what?

Just make the Panther Clipper fit thru the mailslot. Large pads are big enough.

 

[EdzUp]

I would make the Panther class a small carrier maybe for a fraction of the price, as it stands there is a lot of leg room for differwnt sizes of ships and their roles in the ED universe

 

[Robert Maynard]

So what after we get Huge ships? Next up Giga ships? And then what?

Just make the Panther Clipper fit thru the mailslot. Large pads are big enough.

The issue would not then be the mailslot (220.4m wide at its widest with a corresponding height of 40.8m and 50.8m tall at it's tallest with a corresponding width of 156.8m) - it'd be the large landing pad, which is "only" 128m wide by 213m long. Not sure what the height limit in the large landing bay is.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The Imperial Explorer wasn't a huge ship.

If FD do add much bigger ships, i hope they are absoloute sloths.

 

[Gordon Freeman IV]

The Panther Clipper, Boa, Imperial Explorer, and [Nameless Federal Cruiser] would all be welcome additions to Elite. As Huge ships, they wouldn't fit on any of the existing Large pads (and couldn't get through the mail slot). But they don't really need to do they?

Add a ship hanger optional module and you could store and use the smaller "ship-launched-ship" (SLS) for interacting with Stations and Planetary bases that lack Huge facilities. The smaller ships could be deployed in the same way we deploy Fighters and SRVs. The Dismiss/Recall ship command available to an active SRV could be used here as well.

Allow transfer of Cargo between the Huge ship and its smaller companion. We already have the interface from working with the Carrier.

Allow the Huge ship's AMFU to repair/rearm ships in its Hanger, and allow ships in the Hanger to refuel from Hydrogen stores in the Huge ships Cargo.

The Huge ship would have a traditional fuel tank, but since it can't refuel at a station, it would need Hydrogen Cargo donated (same UI as for a Carrier). To rearm the Huge ship, we need a new Commodity type (a generic ammunition item). "Convert" the rearming costs to tonnage at a standard rate (20,000 Cr per Ton?). Collectively, to refuel and rearm your ship, you launch a Ship-Launched-Ship, land at a station and take on Hydrogen and Ammunition Cargo. Return to your Huge ship and transfer the cargo to the Fuel Tank and Ammunition Stores. Excess goes to Cargo (which can be transferred to the Huge ship later as needed).

For wing-play, allow wing-mates to dock if there's available hanger space (same UI as for a SLF). As a non-persistent asset, if the Huge ship logs out, the wing-mate is left in normal space at the Huge ship's location (exactly if a CMDR logged out while not docked with a station).

Allow a crewman to be assigned to weapons on the huge ship. The benefit is turrets now ignore chaff in the same way a multi-crew gunner ignores chaff. Huge ships are not going to be dog-fighters, and functional Turrets would be a necessity against smaller ships. I'd unlock the 3rd crewman for a second active SLF as well.

A fabrications module that converted mineable commodities into generic "Ammunition" would allow a Huge ship to fulfill a deep-space exploration mission for as long as its powerplant stayed functional.

With this implementation, a Huge ship could be configured as a mobile base for a solo player - a non-persistent asset without an upkeep cost.

I support hydrogen to be refineable in deep space.
I would love a mini farragut (federal frigate) but with a maximum jump of 60 ly (imperial explorer has 90 ly) the federal frigate being more armored, shielded and have more damage output to justify the -30 ly federal frigate and imperial explorer would also have walkable cockpits and SLS hangars with elevator going there (like stations/carriers)

 

[Tividar]

My issue with this is it is too carrier like.

Your SLS system needs to be more of a cargo transfer tug setup again with SLF like capabilities but a two part system launched from a module in an internal slot not a hanger. Two part because it is a cockpit module with you or an NPC in and an engine module separated by the string of cargo canisters you are transferring. No need to waste space on a hanger and pads.

module/hangar slot: the idea was to treat “regular” small/medium/large ships the same way we currently treat SLFs. No pads. Size and number of dockable ship dependent on the optional module slots devoted to it.

 

[Tividar]

So what after we get Huge ships? Next up Giga ships? And then what?

While the Existing size classes appear to roughly double in size, I’d treat Huge ships as “anything smaller than capital class but too large for large pad/mail slot.

 

[Tividar]

I support hydrogen to be refineable in deep space.
I would love a mini farragut (federal frigate) but with a maximum jump of 60 ly (imperial explorer has 90 ly) the federal frigate being more armored, shielded and have more damage output to justify the -30 ly federal frigate and imperial explorer would also have walkable cockpits and SLS hangars with elevator going there (like stations/carriers)

Huge ships would be a logical place to introduce ship interiors, boarding actions and on-foot repairs.

 

[Tividar]

As they have ship type drives refuelling can be done by scooping or at a station you could request them to refuel you which they could do with limpets, repairs could be done the same way.

Restocking by limpet would take a long time at one ton per limpet. Much faster to use and SLS. Plus the game is currently designed such that you have to be docked with a station to make use of the stations services. Would be interesting to add a request rearm/refuel/repair option to the existing request docking Communication though.

 

[aRJay]

module/hangar slot: the idea was to treat “regular” small/medium/large ships the same way we currently treat SLFs. No pads. Size and number of dockable ship dependent on the optional module slots devoted to it.

That is why I said too like a carrier, I want huge ships when introduced into the game to behave like existing flyable ships not like mega ships or carriers we already have them. I don't want people docking Pythons in them or even Sidewinders.

Restocking by limpet would take a long time at one ton per limpet. Much faster to use and SLS. Plus the game is currently designed such that you have to be docked with a station to make use of the stations services. Would be interesting to add a request rearm/refuel/repair option to the existing request docking Communication though.

I have seen refuelling by limpet and it isn't all that slow, besides Stations are somewhat bigger so could fit a larger version of the limpet.

 

[Tividar]

I have seen refuelling by limpet and it isn't all that slow, besides Stations are somewhat bigger so could fit a larger version of the limpet.

Have you actually done it? Doing a Search & Rescue refuel only requires the delivery of one Fuel Limpet (one Ton). To actually refuel an Imperial Cutter (64 Ton fuel tank) takes several minutes. Presumably Huge ships would have materially larger Fuel Tanks.

 

[aRJay]

Have you actually done it? Doing a Search & Rescue refuel only requires the delivery of one Fuel Limpet (one Ton). To actually refuel an Imperial Cutter (64 Ton fuel tank) takes several minutes. Presumably Huge ships would have materially larger Fuel Tanks.

Yes but never bothered to time it, limpets in flight are such a nice sight I tend to go into the camera to watch.
But the larger tank size is why I suggested stations could fit bigger limpets.

 

[Tividar]

Yes but never bothered to time it, limpets in flight are such a nice sight I tend to go into the camera to watch.
But the larger tank size is why I suggested stations could fit bigger limpets.

They are pretty. I think by the time you scaled up limpets to be large enough to fuel a Huge ship in a reasonable amount of time (128-256 tons as a minimum Fuel Tank), you'd end up with small freighters. For comparison, a Hauler at 14 tons can carry 26 tons. Hypothetically strip out the unnecessary core modules to mimic a minimalist tug and you're looking at maybe 30 tons. You'd still need half a dozen or more of them. Similar though not as extreme problem with rearming. Based on the Engineering mods, about half of a weapons mass is devoted to ammunition. That's about 12 tons of ammunition for my Cutter. Presumably an ammo-dependent build for a Huge ship would be at least double that.

 

[Gordon Freeman IV]

They are pretty. I think by the time you scaled up limpets to be large enough to fuel a Huge ship in a reasonable amount of time (128-256 tons as a minimum Fuel Tank), you'd end up with small freighters. For comparison, a Hauler at 14 tons can carry 26 tons. Hypothetically strip out the unnecessary core modules to mimic a minimalist tug and you're looking at maybe 30 tons. You'd still need half a dozen or more of them. Similar though not as extreme problem with rearming. Based on the Engineering mods, about half of a weapons mass is devoted to ammunition. That's about 12 tons of ammunition for my Cutter. Presumably an ammo-dependent build for a Huge ship would be at least double that.

For tanks like that class 9, 10 and 11 internals that would be exclusive to huge ships need to exist. A 256T tank would take forever to refuel, especially if its got a very large drive that for a max range jump takes 16 fuel

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

The issue would not then be the mailslot (220.4m wide at its widest with a corresponding height of 40.8m and 50.8m tall at it's tallest with a corresponding width of 156.8m) - it'd be the large landing pad, which is "only" 128m wide by 213m long. Not sure what the height limit in the large landing bay is.

A 213x128x40 box would still be way bigger than any ship we currently have and definitely enough for the Panther. Wide as the T9 but twice as long as the T9 still fits.

 

[MVBanks]

Huge class ships would bring some additional advantages into the game:

- reason to use navy ranks above Rear Admiral and Duke. For example, for Frigate and Destroyer class you need Vice Admiral or Prince rank, and Cruiser and Battle Cruiser class
you need Admiral and King.

• reason to spend billions of credits which are trivial otherwise. Imagine the prices of size 10 Prismatic, or Armour for this ships. Also rebuy is 200 - 300 M.
• Micro jumps inside the system. I would like hybrid FSD, only for size 10 and 11, capable to do normal jumps between systems, but also micro-jumps inside the star system,

with much shorter waiting time than FC. Maybe 2 mins? Still enough for pirates to attack you, if they like to do it

 

[CMDR Rabbit]

I just wanna be able to carry my Sidewinder in a keelback