This is true, I think. All but the tiniest birds are generally quite sedentary in zoos. At most they might flap up or down between perches or the ground, but that's more of a boosted jump than it is flight. It's hardly any different from the moon jump that our clouded leopards still do over a year later. Not to mention how many captive birds that would otherwise be able to can't fly, either because they're clipped or were injured prior to being taken in. So basically I don't think flight is strictly necessary, just give me bird.
A Random Thought About Birds in Zoos
- Thread starter NZFanatic
- Start date
Small birds that fly around a lot would probably be super-demanding to run - at least if they had similar path-finding to other habitat animals (especially since they'd more-or less require large group sizes). However, I suspect that (if aviaries are added at all) those small birds either, a) won't be included or, b) will be included as (something like) exhibit species or spawners. (I'd prefer b but expect a).
For larger (perching) birds, though (parrots, raptors etc.) it would be more than sufficient to 'fly' occasionally, in straight lines, between perch points (which could easily just be any horizontal climbable item) - this would greatly reduce path-finding issues and would probably actually look better too (since its pretty much how birds tend to fly in most situations). Ground and water birds probably don't necessarily need flying at all (as with flamingos and cranes).
For larger (perching) birds, though (parrots, raptors etc.) it would be more than sufficient to 'fly' occasionally, in straight lines, between perch points (which could easily just be any horizontal climbable item) - this would greatly reduce path-finding issues and would probably actually look better too (since its pretty much how birds tend to fly in most situations). Ground and water birds probably don't necessarily need flying at all (as with flamingos and cranes).
I feel like they could get away with birds in smaller exhibits without even having them fly, I think the flying would only need to be introduced in aviaries, yet in my experience even small lorikeets wont fly in an aviary unless they are going quite a big distance, small distances they tend to just hop around different perches. Even at my most recent jobs we have open air exhibits with macaws and cockatoos and they just stay on they perches all day.
I think exhibits really restrict our creativity and I wouldn’t want to see them for birds. Small mammals like prairie dogs and meerkats get habitats so I’d like the same for birds. I agree that flying doesn’t need to be at all complex and could be quite limited and still be realistic.
To clarify, I just meant exhibits as a whole, not planet zoo "exhibits". With work I've gotten to using exhibit, enclosure, habitat synonymously with each other, although a lot of people (where I've worked) try to emphasize only using habitat now as they think exhibit and enclosure have negative connotations to them.
On this site we stick to game-terms. Exhibit/Enclosure/habitat/display are all synonymous in real zoos but the distinction in the game is fairly clear between habitat and exhibit.
I appreciated policing proper terminology, but that is why I clarified. As someone whose put in 40+ hours a week at a zoo for years I tend to slip up and say the terminology that I’m used to and not the game specific terminology. Again, hence why I clarified.
All they really have to do is have limited flight options like perching points or full on perches of different lengths and heights whether it be construction pieces, enrichment items, or foliage/rocks similar to the brachiation items . Every walkthrough aviary I've been to has had birds able to fly freely but only short distances. When Philly zoo had their pair of rhino hornbills they mainly hopped along long rope perches and occasionally flew from the nesting box to the large perch on other end of their exhibit, which wasn't really all that big. I don't need birds endlessly free flying in circles in limited spaces like the pterosaurs in jwe2. In fact I'd be ok with birds that were mostly sedentary. They don't need to aimlessly wander like most of the animals in the game do.
It was mentioned before but I believe Prehistoric Kingdom figured out aviaries perfectly - customizable aviaries of different sizes, materials, and environments, with semi-looped animations for the flighted creatures.
(It isn't necessary a loop - there are various set locations in the aviaries the birds fly to, then perform a randomized activity - perching, preening, calling, etc - and then fly off to another spot to avoid endless loops)
And if Frontier is determined to have the birds be fully blown habitat animals, perhaps similar to the brachiation for the gibbons, a new enrichment item could act as designated flight zone - a modular perching system of sort.
And hey, let's get creative! Here in the USA, almost every single raptor in zoos is either born in captivity or more commonly, a rescue deemed non-releasable by the US Department of Fish and Wildlife. Similarly, many parrots and other tropical birds are survivors of the abusive pet trade. I could see PZ implementing a rescue market dedicated for birds - you'd bypass the flight issues, as many of these birds can't fly.
I simply refuse to give up on birds. Remember, prior to the Conservation Pack, gibbons were thought to be a pipe dream, but Frontier thought out of the box and provided an innovative approach to include their iconic movement.
I have no doubt they can implement that same ingenuity to bring birds into the game.
(It isn't necessary a loop - there are various set locations in the aviaries the birds fly to, then perform a randomized activity - perching, preening, calling, etc - and then fly off to another spot to avoid endless loops)
And if Frontier is determined to have the birds be fully blown habitat animals, perhaps similar to the brachiation for the gibbons, a new enrichment item could act as designated flight zone - a modular perching system of sort.
And hey, let's get creative! Here in the USA, almost every single raptor in zoos is either born in captivity or more commonly, a rescue deemed non-releasable by the US Department of Fish and Wildlife. Similarly, many parrots and other tropical birds are survivors of the abusive pet trade. I could see PZ implementing a rescue market dedicated for birds - you'd bypass the flight issues, as many of these birds can't fly.
I simply refuse to give up on birds. Remember, prior to the Conservation Pack, gibbons were thought to be a pipe dream, but Frontier thought out of the box and provided an innovative approach to include their iconic movement.
I have no doubt they can implement that same ingenuity to bring birds into the game.
I used to be zookeeper myself.
Also "policing" is a strong word (I mean, really?). All I was saying was that if you're using habitat/exhibit to mean the same thing it's kind of your own fault if people correct you.
I don't know why I find this thread just now the first time, but re initial post: That is exactly why birds in zoos bore me out. I've been to a few short free flying shows now and then they actually are interesting to me and I enjoy watching. But a typical zoo bird just sits there the whole day, doing nothing. The only aviary I stay in front of are those with smaller birds and budgees and such.
So, realistic birds would be just like exhibit animals to me. Not very interesting to watch. At the same time I don't want them to act unrealistic in game and constantly fly around. Constantly galopping giraffes or running Komodo Dragons are already enough for me, really.
So, realistic birds would be just like exhibit animals to me. Not very interesting to watch. At the same time I don't want them to act unrealistic in game and constantly fly around. Constantly galopping giraffes or running Komodo Dragons are already enough for me, really.
Well, we'll never fully agree on that, parrots are some of my favourites (I still miss my cockatiels) and are easily a highlight at the zoo for me. Birds of prey, sure, they don't do much, but they're impressive to see. A lot of zoos do walkthrough aviaries with hand-feeding for some birds, especially rainbow lorikeets, which is always fantastic too (and I know you at least like kea
).That said, the only reason I'd prefer them as habitat animals than exhibit animals is to ensure there's enough variety of aviary design in my zoos. Otherwise I'd be all for them being exhibit animals on loop (perhaps more looped than the current exhibit animals, with a few different possible pathways to cycle through, but still).
Hey, I like parrots too! In zoos, that is, not in my flat, please, my poor ears.Well, we'll never fully agree on that, parrots are some of my favourites (I still miss my cockatiels) and are easily a highlight at the zoo for me. Birds of prey, sure, they don't do much, but they're impressive to see. A lot of zoos do walkthrough aviaries with hand-feeding for some birds, especially rainbow lorikeets, which is always fantastic too (and I know you at least like kea
However, as you say, they don't fly much in an aciary. But zoo Hannover has them at their free flighing zoo. A whole swarm. Daaaaang, one of the coolest things I have ever seen!
Strong word for a strong statement...
I have no problem being corrected, hence the clarification, but your response was strong enough
Also to get back on topic, as it seems like people might also want to be able to do a walk in aviary style, It would be interesting to ponder the idea of pre-made aviaries that you could choose species for and then the people go in and out similar to the newer seating/restaurants. You could even make the shells of these customizable, just a thought.
Here’s my thoughts
I have usually only seen non releasable birds of prey in zoos. The aviaries were not huge but enough for space for the amount of birds per aviary and for birds that aren’t flying too far due to a condition. Either because of injury, imprint, etc. one Place I used to volunteer at, I had to clean a habitat and feed bald eagles where one of which had an amputated wing and I was charged at violently. Another place I worked had coastal Alaskan birds in a walkthrough aviary where birds typically stayed away from the area where guests enter. The birds could fly but most didn’t as some have no need to fly (puffins are notoriously and humorously bad flyers) so they would waddle and swim to areas they wanted to get to.
I have usually only seen non releasable birds of prey in zoos. The aviaries were not huge but enough for space for the amount of birds per aviary and for birds that aren’t flying too far due to a condition. Either because of injury, imprint, etc. one Place I used to volunteer at, I had to clean a habitat and feed bald eagles where one of which had an amputated wing and I was charged at violently. Another place I worked had coastal Alaskan birds in a walkthrough aviary where birds typically stayed away from the area where guests enter. The birds could fly but most didn’t as some have no need to fly (puffins are notoriously and humorously bad flyers) so they would waddle and swim to areas they wanted to get to.
I definitely want walk through aviaries but would be super disappointed if they weren’t fully customisable (except maybe for relatively small ones for smaller, more active, birds. Aviaries are often the most impressive and interesting structures in zoos. Since PZ is,at heart, a zoo building game (IMO) I think that aviaries are sorely needed - and they need to be as customisable as possible so that both smaller and the largest free flight-style aviaries can be included.
I would love fully customizable everything but I’m just pondering ideas that might be more feasible or at least a step in the right direction.
At the end of the day, it is a loop. There's randomization added to it to, successfully, make it appear as if it isn't; but at its core there's no technical difference in concept between PK's aviaries, JWE1's aviaries and PZ's exhibits. All three systems use a set of predefined animations and predefined points on which to play the animations, all three use some randomization to make sure it doesn't feel like it's a set of looped behaviours.
What I'm trying to say with this, it seems like Frontier so far hasn't considered this approach as a viable option for birds. They've implemented the system in two of their games, one of them even for flying animals, so it's not like they aren't able to do so. From a technical point of view, it's the easier option, by far also a lot easier than something like free diving was.
So it it is the easier way of doing it and it is certainly easier to do than diving, why didn't we get that yet? You'd assume given how wanted birds have been for the past 3 years, if Frontier wants to tackle it that way, they'd have done it by now right?
Because of that, and because of several reasons like their focus on habitat customizability, I still think that it's unlikely for birds to be brought into the game with an exhibit like system.
At this point I think it's unlikely we'll see birds at all. Naturally, they might surprise us, but it's possible they're banking a feature like that for the future - I am generally against the notion of speculating over a sequel, but it's possible.
I'm not going to lie, I'm currently also not really positive about seeing birds in the game at this point in time. I really want to be wrong though
