Help me to make the best woodlands/temperate Animal Pack

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

I dont like the north american river otter.
If we get a third otter it should either be the 7 biome all terrain old world supreme machine or the north american sea otter.
NARO and OWO just look to similar for both and fill the same niche, but one does it across 7 biomes and 3 continents and the other "only" in the wetlands, coastlines and forests of north america, which is still good but cant compare to the OWO whos present in deserts, tropical rain forests, grasslands, tundra, savanah and all of the habitats the NARO thrives in.
Its simply more diverse + europe has no fresh water diver yet, while america has plenty and even another more unique otter to offer.
And thats if we get another otter, because while i wouldnt mind the old world or sea otter, we allready got 2 good otters and especally NARO and OWO have good mods allready out there.

 

[NZFanatic]

Any reason for that?
The racoon is more iconic, much much more common in zoos, a new taxonomic order for the game and arboreal.
Genuinly interests me

Like Doran says, I love Japan, and I want a lot more Japanese stuff in the game. The raccoon dog is widepsread throughout Eurasia, but as the tanuki it is very quintessentially Japan.

As for raccoons, I just have very little interest in more North American wildlife. The skunk is one of the only animals I genuinely want from North America at this point, or the North American porcupine (I tossed up between the two but ultimately I'd like the skunk more). Australasian zoos don't put much emphasis on North American species in their collections, beyond alligators and bison, and even the European zoos I've visited didn't really have broad American collections either. A lot of that is because very few North American species have the same conservation urgency as other species.

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

That makes sense, but not really for the racoon.
Its the 15. Most common in the EAZA with 549 holdings and an aboreal animal, something we do not have for NA.
It has both an open niche and the representation as the by far most common north american animal in not north american collections.
While i agree that it would be great for east asian areas and would like them in the game, they also arnt an Eurasian species. They are in invasive in europe because they sadly have been farmed for their pelt, just like racoons.
But yeah, thank you for elaborating! Good to hear different opinions

 

[Doran]

Worth to mention there are 2 species of raccoon dog: japanese and common.
Japanese is kept only in japan whereas common is kept in china and europe.

Most people wouldnt give a damn about it, but I know there are some, who are very picky about animal choices for their zoos.

 

[ElectricMonk]

Australasian zoos don't put much emphasis on North American species in their collections, beyond alligators and bison..

Not disagreeing (although I’d add grizzlies and coatis to the list) but I’d also add that Europe isn’t well represented either - even less than NA I think?

 

[Aramar]

As for raccoons, I just have very little interest in more North American wildlife. The skunk is one of the only animals I genuinely want from North America at this point, or the North American porcupine (I tossed up between the two but ultimately I'd like the skunk more). Australasian zoos don't put much emphasis on North American species in their collections, beyond alligators and bison, and even the European zoos I've visited didn't really have broad American collections either. A lot of that is because very few North American species have the same conservation urgency as other species.

Not disagreeing (although I’d add grizzlies and coatis to the list) but I’d also add that Europe isn’t well represented either - even less than NA I think?

Out of curiosity, don't you find those animals that are not easily found in Australian zoos exotic and want to see them? For me as a European, I find animals like Tasmanian devil, wombats or platypus very interesting due to the fact that I can't see them easily, so I would imagine that someone from Australia would find raccoons, lynx or badgers exotic and interesting animals to see.

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

I dont have data, but i wouldnt be surprised at all about european species being rare outside of europe.
In most places they are invasive and seen as pests or have a more common counter part like the american bison over the wisent.
But that said, it cant be understated how common they are in europe, the continent that features allmost half of all zoos worldwide.
They range from smaller zoos with a focus on local fauna, to cheap animals for budget zoos and even feature in larger ones, especally if they have conservation value.
For example, the zoo leipzig, argueably the best german zoo recently started a big scale breeding program for the threatend european hamster. Other european animals frequent in large zoos are wolfs, lynx, european wild cat, wisent, eurasian otter, fallow deer, beaver and the brown bear, with much more being less frequent.
And for our wild parks, there are quite alot.
The german wildpark association has 157 members, but there are also other similar parks that dont fall inside these 157.
But even with "just" 157, thats 157 zoos where most of them just need racoons, red deer, wild boar and red fox to have most of their animals represented.
My local one for example is quite small in the amount of animals, with only red deer, fallow deer, wild boar, red squirrels, common pheasents, moufflons, red foxes, european wild cats, racoons and ferret habitats.
Even if i count the not present anymore badger and lynx, that would be 3 out if 12 animals, which is pretty sad honestly, especally as they are all really common in these kind of zoos.

 

[NZFanatic]

That makes sense, but not really for the racoon.
Its the 15. Most common in the EAZA with 549 holdings and an aboreal animal, something we do not have for NA.

How common it is in captivity isn't really important to me in this case.

Worth to mention there are 2 species of raccoon dog: japanese and common.

The Japanese raccoon dog is actually a subspecies, not a different species, so it would still be covered by the generic species.

Out of curiosity, don't you find those animals that are not easily found in Australian zoos exotic and want to see them?

I mean, not really, or at least not specifically. (Edit: Speaking as a New Zealander and not an Australian, but there is a ton of overlap between what our zoos contain because of the Australasian-wide studbooks).

Most major North American species have counterparts in Europe, and European animals are more useful to me in terms of the game because I always build my zoos in Europe. For example, if I wanted a brown bear, I'd use the Himalayan, or the Eurasian if we had it, and when I use the wolf I use it as a Eurasian wolf since it's a generic species.

The North American animals I'm most fascinated by are the more unique ones, like the skunk, but they're also the less likely species to appear in the game because most people don't consider them "zoo worthy".

 

[NZFanatic]

and an aboreal animal

I should also add that that's why I tossed up between the skunk and the North American porcupine (which is arboreal), but the skunk won out based on sheer charm. I saw both species at Edinburgh Zoo (which IIRC was pretty much the extent of their North American collection) which is also why I chose either. My wants are mostly based on animals I've actually seen, or animals I badly want to see (which is also why I advocate so hard for the Sumatran rhinoceros despite it no longer being in captivity).

 

[Doran]

The Japanese raccoon dog is actually a subspecies, not a different species, so it would still be covered by the generic species.

Being honest I just saw it on wiki, and information about it being separate species varies depending on sites.
In case when frontier will pick single species model, I guess coat variation could be used for most obvious morphological difference (color). Not sure what are other body differences between two populations.

 

[NZFanatic]

Being honest I just saw it on wiki, and information about it being separate species varies depending on sites.
In case when frontier will pick single species model, I guess coat variation could be used for most obvious morphological difference (color). Not sure what are other body differences between two populations.

Huh, you're right. That's kind of frustrating to me actually. I want the animal for Japan, but we're more likely to get the broader Asian species...

 

[ElectricMonk]

Out of curiosity, don't you find those animals that are not easily found in Australian zoos exotic and want to see them? For me as a European, I find animals like Tasmanian devil, wombats or platypus very interesting due to the fact that I can't see them easily, so I would imagine that someone from Australia would find raccoons, lynx or badgers exotic and interesting animals to see.

Absolutely. I wasn’t commenting how much I want them in game (or even in RL zoos here) - only on how common they actually are.

 

[tigris115]

@KönigDerKaffeebohnen what's your source on EAZA holdings>

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

@KönigDerKaffeebohnen what's your source on EAZA holdings>

Zootierliste, a german site that list both the current and past holdings of all vertebrate animals in the EAZA

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

ZootierlisteHomepage

Heres a link to the english version of the site

 

[Antimony96]

Interestingly it is the most downloaded mod

It's very popular for ZSU if you've heard of that community, probably because, again, it's a very common animal in small to medium-sized (and large) NA zoos.

 

[becks474]

It's very popular for ZSU if you've heard of that community, probably because, again, it's a very common animal in small to medium-sized (and large) NA zoos.

Yes, I have heard from ZSU. But if my memory is not that worse I think that the North American River Otter already was a very popular mod before ZSU started. But the top downloaded mods are interesting anyway as there are a lot of NA species very popular.

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

Yes, I have heard from ZSU. But if my memory is not that worse I think that the North American River Otter already was a very popular mod before ZSU started. But the top downloaded mods are interesting anyway as there are a lot of NA species very popular.

Could you elaborate which ones?
Is it just "reskins" like the bobcat, american badger, white tailed deer and NARO or also more interesting animals?

 

[becks474]

Could you elaborate which ones?
Is it just "reskins" like the bobcat, american badger, white tailed deer and NARO or also more interesting animals?

I just post the actual top 20 downloaded mods. Important is that some species have no mods (old world Porcupine) or a long ago outdated mod (Red River Hog). Around 40 African species can also be downloaded together as a safari pack since around a year (African Leopard, Dik Dik) and download for the pack does not count for the single mod. The third thing is that some mods are oder than others and perhaps are downloaded more frequent than others. The list does contain petting Zoo animals like domesticated cows.


1. North American River Otter
2. African Leopard
3. Maned Wolf
(Persian Fallow Deer --> I let it out of the list. Originally it was just the fallow deer if I remember right)
4. Wapiti
5. Emu
6. Alpaca
7. Kodiak Red Fox
8. Coyote
9. Dromedary
10. Serval
11. Somali Wild Donkey
12. Chinstrap Penguin
13. American Black Bear
14. Green Sea Turtle
15. Tufted Capuchin Monkey
16. Nine-Banded Armadillo
17. Golden Lion Tamarin
18. Little Blue Penguin
19. Japanese Red Fox
20. Kirks Dik Dik

 

[nutrit]

I think you have mixed up order just a little bit and also forgot about Striped hyena.

1. North American River Otter
2. African Leopard
3. Maned Wolf
4. Wapiti
5. Emu
6. Green sea turtle
7. Kodiak Red Fox
8. Somali Wild Donkey
9. Japanese red fox
10. Serval
11. Dromedary
12. Coyote
13. Golden Lion Tamarin
14. Harbor seal
15. Little Blue Penguin
16. Nine-Banded Armadillo
17. Striped hyena
18. Kirks Dik Dik
19. Chinstrap penguin
20. Mute swan

I found it really interesting how my beloved Somali wild donkey is popular there so maybe it will find it’s way to the game one day just like water buffalo did.