Well done! But you do realise that others than you also play the game, don't you?
Sadly, Star Citizen doesn't permit that!
...but then, I still haven't managed to get my HOTAS bindings to stay put yet either!
Elite: An old persons view...
- Thread starter CaptnPicard2305
- Start date
...but then, I still haven't managed to get my HOTAS bindings to stay put yet either!
Elite Dangerous: Its a great way to spend an evening...
Hmmm.. Odyssey certainly has merit!
I suppose murdering civilians and getting notoriety and bounties will be classed as grind by some, so, back to the grind!
Hmmm.. Odyssey certainly has merit!
I suppose murdering civilians and getting notoriety and bounties will be classed as grind by some, so, back to the grind!
Nobody said this was a positive reviews only thread. It's just about views from a certain age range.
And yet, you state that the roles dont matter and exist for no purpose other than to lock assets at the end of a progression tree that exists soley to extend the time doing activities in order to progress and acquire those items. What other point would that exist for other than what I stated and you seem to be refuting simply because it's something i'm stating? What point is this setup this way other than to extend game time without adding any new gameplay by holding out a carrot? There is none. You've offered none. In fact you agree with my statement even if you seem incapable of writing so.
And this same logic applies to engineering. Only they solved their problem of having to create new assets every time they wanted to create an additional means of keeping players playing. No new gameplay activities. No innovation of the existing gameplay loops. You just do the same things directed at different destinations and via a gambling mechanic (initially) it exploits the addictive nature of "wanting the best" to the ultimate goal of having an immense ability to continually add reasons to give players to keep playing without having to actually create expensive assets continually. Engineers offers nothing else. It's entirely optional so the gameplay doesn't require it and it doesn't involve new gameplay loops or game activities. What other purpose could it have been implemented to do? What other justification does it have for existing the way it does?
The suggestions around changing engineering give fdev the benefit of the doubt and see it's current implementation as something that should be changed and built on and as it currently exists, inferior and inadequate. But I'm making the statement that we dont see fdev falling over themselves to make such changes because it's actually not broken or poorly implemented because it does exactly what it was designed to do as is - which had nothing to do with innovating the game with improved gameplay.
A general observation and my opinion, but one wonders how many of the gripers are actual game developers or, in fact know anything about large-scale development at all.
Untrue. Just because I didn't name individuals (no point/flaming) doesn't mean the statements weren't made or inferred. As I noted, you have a very overbearing opinion and anyone in disagreement with it, is basically dismissed or condescended on.
In fact, I think my only statement to you was to disagree with your label of this game being a RPG or FPS. The rest you have taken on yourself as an indictment. My conversation or agreement with Ratty is simply on the broader aspect of forumites and their opinions.
I am, although my experience is more in the indie space I have dealt with larger studios and on gamified applications. 2 published indie games from my own studio, worked with a few indie studios, assisted some small grassroots studios, worked on what could be best described as a simulation game to assist olympic athletes for a university, worked on the world design for an online game.
Does that give me qualification to speak as a player? Or do we need to be Hironobu Sakaguchi?
It doesn't matter whether someone is or isn't though. You don't need to be a game developer to know whether content is thin or not. Its a null point.
how would that alter what grind is?
besides the misuse of the term by players in ways that make it subjective and impossible to define in away that can be discussed?
talking about "grind" as defined by people who use the term to describe something subjective isn't interesting in discussion because it can't be really discussed. Which is why i threw up a definition that doesn't rely on that to clarify what it is when i'm referring to it and what it is when it's being referred to in other games in a non-negative connotation (which is what was happening at the time).
No, what you are doing is exactly the text book definition of creating a straw man argument. Nobody was implying or stating that the game was unplayable in this discussion. Yet you leaped to that extreme as if they were.
My overbearing opinions aside, i dont dismiss or condescend to anyone that actually has some justification to their statements at least on par to what i'm using. Do you think asking you if you knew the definition of strawman was condescending? Because you literally were making a strawman argument while saying you oppose such arguments and they shouldn't exist in the thread so i was just asking a question in simple manner.
and? that's the scope of my response to that as well. Aside from the whole creating a strawman argument while stating that they shouldn't be used.
I was wondering how it would have gone when I was younger - perhaps railing about the way double jump in checkers didn't rightly model real life, or perhaps the lack of engineering progress in pacheesi. You know? Right? LOL. Seriously, it's a grind loop trying to build up this monopoly empire.
buy, build, charge rent, build more, charge more rent, build more, uh oh, what, you don't have enough to pay the rent? LOL
Well done, an accurate and undeniable statement!
This forum appears to attract "AAA" developers like dog poo does flies...
I mean, I must be a developer too as I wrote several educational games for a group of primary schools nearly 20 years ago, but I'm not a programmer by profession.
So for me ED is a wonderful extension of the 90s game Elite II that I played as a child and teenager I was a bit too young for the 80s Elite.
ED is a great game but its very far from what it could be and that's not a criticism of the game or devs its just this is a very early incarnation of what multiplayer space games are. Only minor complaint I have is the game won't ever be developed at the speed we want it doesn't have a wide enough audience to generate mega millions.
A working 400 billion system universe is an amazing achievement by Frontier.
But that last part does sound pretty much exactly like my fantasies, minus the waking up part.
If the chance to leave this planet and go explore the universe was available in real life I would also just go. A realistic space sim is absolutely the next best thing.
You can still like a thing and be critical of it.
I'm not a game developer, neither am I am artist, musician or film maker.
But I can still interpret art, appreciate music and comment on mis-en-scene. Furthermore I can distinguish between good and bad examples of all of those things.
Perhaps it's shorthand to say that the grind loops in ED are poor/bad. They're bad in contrast to other games, bad in contrast to how game design has moved on in 30 years.
You can acknowledge this and still enjoy playing the game.
"I like it and therefore it must be ok" isn't an argument, without any additional commentary, that would wash in any other field - reviewing books, films or even something as subjective as artworks.
Elite as a "walking sim" is bloody brilliant (check the Other Places videos
Source: https://youtu.be/IgMRTMhImB0
for more examples)
But please bring something more to the table if you're discussing game design other than "oh, I don't grind so it's fine"
I'm not a game developer, neither am I am artist, musician or film maker.
But I can still interpret art, appreciate music and comment on mis-en-scene. Furthermore I can distinguish between good and bad examples of all of those things.
Perhaps it's shorthand to say that the grind loops in ED are poor/bad. They're bad in contrast to other games, bad in contrast to how game design has moved on in 30 years.
You can acknowledge this and still enjoy playing the game.
"I like it and therefore it must be ok" isn't an argument, without any additional commentary, that would wash in any other field - reviewing books, films or even something as subjective as artworks.
Elite as a "walking sim" is bloody brilliant (check the Other Places videos
for more examples)
But please bring something more to the table if you're discussing game design other than "oh, I don't grind so it's fine"
I strenuously disagree. In this very topic it certainly is implied see the quote below
I didnt become bored, I became annoyed with the game. The grind and nickel-and-dime structure of the rewards. The powercreep, nerf to vaniillla n and overreliance on RNG did pretty much the rest, as well as annoyances when stuff stopped working or bugs ruined yet another couple hours of game session. It's one of he few games I regret spending 100s of hours in.
So what? Just because elements of ED turned a player completely away from the game doesn't mean the vasr majority of the gsmes critics are that dissatisfied, nor does it mean anything for any individual arguments.
This forum appears to attract "AAA" developers like dog poo does flies...
I mean, I must be a developer too as I wrote several educational games for a group of primary schools nearly 20 years ago, but I'm not a programmer by profession.
Only 2 of us that I noticed claimed to have any game development experience. Both myself and the other poster were defending FD when it was brought up, and I certainly didn't use it to lord over anyone.
So... why this distraction? One doesn't even need to be a game developer to critique content so it doesn't matter either way.
Why not this distraction?
This forum has many claims of being developers by its members (which is the point I made, not this thread - you did read my comment?) although it is more often claimed in order to criticise Frontier's Developers...
Nothing anyone says here matters in any way, it is just a heap of words posted to the internet.
I express my opinions, others express theirs. It is fun for all of us, I hope.
My point was that the developers snark would make more sense if it was being used to pull you down. But it wasn't.