Elite: An old persons view...

[nemolomen]

Elite, like many games, is a game of progression, where you can't just log in on day one and fly any ship you want like a flight simulator.

Yes

The point I was making in my last post is that I can enjoy Elite just as much (more, actually) flying a ship I can earn in hours as I can in one that takes days or weeks to obtain. Most content in Elite is not gated - Thargoids are the only thing that comes to mind, and I just don't bother with them because that is one grind I'm not interested in.

I didn't like grinding for the guardian bits, but I do love fighting the Thargoids. I'm still an amateur but its very enjoyable. But I also don't follow any guides either. I do my own thing...

But if the only way someone can enjoy Elite is by flying a G5 Cutter or Corvette, and they don't want to "earn" that ship by playing the game, then you're right, Elite's not the game for them.

Almost 2 years in and I don't have access to either of those ships. They're on my bucket list. I make little bits of progress here and there. Eventually...

Oh and here is the sum total of my engineering:

 

[Frankymole]

No worries,

I don't take it personally, we live in different cultural paradigms and different work culture, we seldom take pride in "hard work" but pride ourselves on "smart work", while in your time "hard work" was the norm as if in some weird twisted "life is suffering, deal with it" kind of way, while people my age and younger are most of the mind akin to "Life is Party, enjoy the hell out of it". Most of the time me and my peers are looking for ways to work quick and efficient. And it's funny, the company I work for had been having record profits this past half year, and my managers and GM are very happy with my perfomance. "underworked" is subjective, because when I finish my work at 2-3 pm, I just keep the Slack open (I work from home thank god) in case of an emergency and my email in case I have to jump on a meeting with a client.

It's really interesting how the way we both percieve the world is miles apart and it even affects how we play or think about our videogames

07 commander!

The point he's making is that the hard workers also do smart work. Continuous improvement is the order of the day. They don't just put their feet up once it is done, but seek out more value to add to the enterprise. Please stop implying those who are not lazy or incurious are somehow not smart.

One thing they might do with their extra work time is improve their knowledge, e.g. by finding out what "paradigm" actually means...

Oh, and our time is just as valuable as yours. Probably more so, as we have more life responsibilities and more demands on it. Those mortgages won't pay themselves - since we're able to actually get mortgages

 

[Darkfyre99]

I'm 52 years old. Played the original Elite on the C64. I loved Frontier: Elite 2 and would play it for hours, but wasn’t quite as impressed by Frontier First Encounters.

There’s a lot I like about Elite Dangerous. The biggest is VR and full six degrees of freedom with HOTAS support. Either one is fantastic. Both together? pure bliss, especially when you add in Supercruise. It’s truly a worthy successor to the original Elite, and comes close to doing the same for FE2. It only comes close thanks to some of the decisions Frontier has made in regards of this title.

The biggest decision affecting ED’s status, relative to FE2, is the one to make this game an MMO. This game would be so much better if this were a single-player game, although under another team it would’ve made a great MMO. The 2013 Dev Team gave me the impression they knew how to avert most of the common problems with MMOs I’ve played in the past. The 2015 Dev Team seemed bound and determined to make the same mistakes, and later teams seem to think that MMOs are identical to single player games, only with more players.

But a close second is purely subjective, which is the decision to add ground vehicles and on-foot gameplay, rather than bring ED up to parity with FE2, planet wise. I understand why they went with the approach they did, and I do enjoy the additional gameplay they bring, but not nearly as much as being able to fly through the cloud dappled skies of Emerald, on approach to Fort O’Brien, or sit in the cockpit of an Eagle on the landing pad at Sirocco Station, watching Aster ride behind the domed cities of Merlin.

 

[Frankymole]

Isn't it a single-player game? That's solo mode. IF they'd released it as single-player, that's all that would be different. Lack of multiplayer online modes.

 

[nemolomen]

I'm 52 years old. Played the original Elite on the C64. I loved Frontier: Elite 2 and would play it for hours, but wasn’t quite as impressed by Frontier First Encounters.

There’s a lot I like about Elite Dangerous. The biggest is VR and full six degrees of freedom with HOTAS support. Either one is fantastic. Both together? pure bliss, especially when you add in Supercruise. It’s truly a worthy successor to the original Elite, and comes close to doing the same for FE2. It only comes close thanks to some of the decisions Frontier has made in regards of this title.

The biggest decision affecting ED’s status, relative to FE2, is the one to make this game an MMO. This game would be so much better if this were a single-player game, although under another team it would’ve made a great MMO. The 2013 Dev Team gave me the impression they knew how to avert most of the common problems with MMOs I’ve played in the past. The 2015 Dev Team seemed bound and determined to make the same mistakes, and later teams seem to think that MMOs are identical to single player games, only with more players.

But a close second is purely subjective, which is the decision to add ground vehicles and on-foot gameplay, rather than bring ED up to parity with FE2, planet wise. I understand why they went with the approach they did, and I do enjoy the additional gameplay they bring, but not nearly as much as being able to fly through the cloud dappled skies of Emerald, on approach to Fort O’Brien, or sit in the cockpit of an Eagle on the landing pad at Sirocco Station, watching Aster ride behind the domed cities of Merlin.

If it wasn't for multiplayer, I think I wouldn't play as much. Not that all of my play time is multiplayer, not by a long shot. But human beings make much better companions than any game AI (well, I say that without almost any experience to back it up). The game is great, don't get me wrong here, but playing with other players gives me much better experiences than playing alone does. Again, not that the game is bad per se, I love it. Its just less of an experience than it is with other people, by a long shot...in my book anyway...

Even if those people are gankers...its a different experience that I can't get in the PvE play...

 

[Darkfyre99]

If it wasn't for multiplayer, I think I wouldn't play as much. Not that all of my play time is multiplayer, not by a long shot. But human beings make much better companions than any game AI (well, I say that without almost any experience to back it up). The game is great, don't get me wrong here, but playing with other players gives me much better experiences than playing alone does. Again, not that the game is bad per se, I love it. Its just less of an experience than it is with other people, by a long shot...in my book anyway...

Even if those people are gankers...its a different experience that I can't get in the PvE play...

Oh, I absolutely agree. Human beings provide different (but not necessarily more difficult) challenges to overcome. Unfortunately, I'm at a stage of my life where contiguous free time to play is at a premium, and the decision to make this an MMO, along side certain other decisions, makes it hard to find the time to actually play this game. And then there are the other compromises required for online play, compared to single player. These include, but not are limited to:

• I can't take a mission, save my game half way through, and pick it up whenever I have time again. In this game, the types of missions I like to take will fail if I get interrupted by real life. And then of course there's the Odyssey stealth missions. I love stealth gameplay. But I won't be able to save my game half way through infiltrating a facility, and be able to pick it up later.
• I can't adjust settings that control the amount of difficulty, effort, skill, and strategy required by this game to match my tastes. Whether I want to or not, I'm forced to play the same settings as everyone else. With Frontier going the full Monty Haul rewards route, those settings result in a fairly bland game. I wanted to play a struggling commander, fighting a private war against the Evil Galactic Federation. Instead, I'm playing a wealthy dilettante, who dabbles at playing an Imperial agent to relieve her of her ennui instead. I want to make interesting decisions to try to get ahead. These days, every decision is on the order of "What do I want for breakfast."
• I also can't add mods to make the game even more "interesting." Frontier has gone full Monty Haul rewards so much, that it rarely tempts me out of my comfortable groove, let alone push me out of it.

 

[Frankymole]

With Frontier going the full Monty Haul rewards route, those settings result in a fairly bland game. I wanted to play a struggling commander, fighting a private war against the Evil Galactic Federation. Instead, I'm playing a wealthy dilettante, who dabbles at playing an Imperial agent to relieve her of her ennui instead. I want to make interesting decisions to try to get ahead. These days, every decision is on the order of "What do I want for breakfast."

• I also can't add mods to make the game even more "interesting." Frontier has gone full Monty Haul rewards so much, that it rarely tempts me out of my comfortable groove, let alone push me out of it.

I thought Monty Haul was about money (specifically disproportionate amounts for very little time or effort invested)... whereas most of my time seems to be doing missions for materials, to improve my weapons and suits... so I can hopefully hold my own in a High conflict zone instead of tangling with Lows all the time. Feels like progress to me, as much as any game can. More XP and +n armour and weapons than gold pieces and jewels....

 

[dubsdj]

I'm planning to come back. I got to a point in the game where I just didn't really know what else to do and landing on barren planets just didn't really get me excited about the game anymore, plus the missions were just getting repetitive. I am looking forward to the new developments in the game over the next year and hopefully that'll get me back into it as I do miss playing Elite every other day.

 

[SteveWW57]

I thought Monty Haul was about money (specifically disproportionate amounts for very little time or effort invested)... whereas most of my time seems to be doing missions for materials, to improve my weapons and suits... so I can hopefully hold my own in a High conflict zone instead of tangling with Lows all the time. Feels like progress to me, as much as any game can. More XP and +n armour and weapons than gold pieces and jewels....

When I were a lad back in t' early seventies and DnD was the new game in town ...... never mind.

Monty Haul came to refer to an overabundance of not just money, but items as well. It was not a successful game (in some eyes) if you came away with a longsword +1 when you wanted a +3 vorpal blade. Even in those days we wanted the good stuff quickly so we could take on the higher level dungeons and not have to make many forays to find the kinds of items that we wanted. In the monty haul situation, it was found that players did not value much of the stuff that they found.

And I still have my adventuring party figures not six feet from where I am sitting.

Steve 07.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I thought Monty Haul was about money (specifically disproportionate amounts for very little time or effort invested)... whereas most of my time seems to be doing missions for materials, to improve my weapons and suits... so I can hopefully hold my own in a High conflict zone instead of tangling with Lows all the time. Feels like progress to me, as much as any game can. More XP and +n armour and weapons than gold pieces and jewels....

A Monty Haul campaign is one where the game master hands out excessive amount of wealth, power, XP, and other forms of reward. In ED, the rewards were wealth, which IMO started* at reasonable levels, and within two years reached ridiculous levels. In EDH, the rewards were engineering, which started at excessive, and within two years reached ridiculous levels levels. In EDO, the rewards are again engineering. If in EDO the rewards were gained solely through engineering, then the rewards would be reasonable. They're not, though. You can easily get G3 equipment from Pioneer supplies via wealth, which have passed ridiculous levels into realms of ludicrousness, and anything more than G3 is overkill IMO.

______________
*For small and some medium class ships, at least. There's a flaw in ship and module prices, where the price increases exponentially, while capabilities increases logarithmically. IMO, the long-term health of the game would've been better served by fixing ship and module prices, rather than overinflating credit rewards.

 

[Frankymole]

A Monty Haul campaign is one where the game master hands out excessive amount of wealth, power, XP, and other forms of reward. In ED, the rewards were wealth, which IMO started* at reasonable levels, and within two years reached ridiculous levels. In EDH, the rewards were engineering, which started at excessive, and within two years reached ridiculous levels levels. In EDO, the rewards are again engineering. If in EDO the rewards were gained solely through engineering, then the rewards would be reasonable. They're not, though. You can easily get G3 equipment from Pioneer supplies via wealth, which have passed ridiculous levels into realms of ludicrousness, and anything more than G3 is overkill IMO.

______________
*For small and some medium class ships, at least. There's a flaw in ship and module prices, where the price increases exponentially, while capabilities increases logarithmically. IMO, the long-term health of the game would've been better served by fixing ship and module prices, rather than overinflating credit rewards.

And yet still they moan of too much grind for too little reward... seems new players expect a Fleet Carrier within weeks if not days, now. Took me over 8 months to get my first Anaconda...

As to "Many video games seem to either encourage or require the sort of player (or the sort of game play) who would take a broom to a dungeon, to make sure he swept up all the coins" I remember my friend (who was the DM/referee) trying to cope with his younger brother, soon after we started RPGs with Tunnels & Trolls, demanding that the brother's adventurer character was removing all the hinges and handles from every door in the dungeon to sell as "valuable" scrap metal.

 

[nemolomen]

... whereas most of my time seems to be doing missions for materials, to improve my weapons and suits... so I can hopefully hold my own in a High conflict zone instead of tangling with Lows all the time. Feels like progress to me, as much as any game can. More XP and +n armour and weapons than gold pieces and jewels....

What is your current loadout for on foot CZs?

How do you approach/engage them with that loadout?

I haven't upgraded or engineered any of my on foot gear yet. I play high CZs solo and win nearly every time. This is a good balance for me.

 

[macenso]

Well there is still some time to make a pilgrimage over the weekend. The following list is most of the story of INRA / Azimuth and the development of the mycoid weapon. IIRC each site has voice logs that can be discovered with a SRV. It more or less tells the story about Azimuth. There are a few other ones like the black flight, but that span huge distances and is probably best made with a fleet carrier or over time. For instance it starts with one site in Colonia and then continues in the bubble. The mega ships are a bit boring and only text logs, but one can follow that trail too, there's not all that many of them. This IMO is the best of it due to the creepy locations and the voice logs.

Hermitage 4 a - Hollis Gateway
HIP 15329 A 3 c - Stuart Retreat
Alnath A 2 a a - Klatt Enterprises
HIP 59382 1 b - Mayes Chemical Plant
HIP 7158 A 2 b - Hogan Depot
LP 389-95 7 - Velasquez Medical Research Centre
Conn A 3 a - Ameida Landing
HIP 16824 A 2 f - Carmichael Point
HIP 12099 1 a - Stack
12 Trianguli A 1- Taylor Keep
HIP 12099 1 b - Jameson's Crash Site

Thank you very much. I am trying to get up to speed!

 

[StockardRoss]

i started in 1984 with elite on 64 comodore, and i had elite : frontiers, elite makes jumps every time. better grafics and more game play as before.
so i am completly happy with elite dangerous. and the way it goes. ground battle is not my part.
but trading and exploring make fun. and with the carrier i have so much more options to explore as before. and on foot exploring,too. i wish panther clipper. but hey carrier can carry 25k so it is a panther clipper xxl .

fly safe

 

[Frankymole]

And yet still they moan of too much grind for too little reward... seems new players expect a Fleet Carrier within weeks if not days, now. Took me over 8 months to get my first Anaconda...

What is your current loadout for on foot CZs?

How do you approach/engage them with that loadout?

I haven't upgraded or engineered any of my on foot gear yet. I play high CZs solo and win nearly every time. This is a good balance for me.

How old are you?

 

[nemolomen]

How old are you?

I'll be 57 by the end of the year, why?

 

[SteveWW57]

I'll be 57 by the end of the year, why?

It could be to complain that us boomers have had and continue to have an undue influence on the game, adversely affecting the the development of the game and how it is meant to be played. Like in real life, us boomers have spent/stolen the future every generation that comes after.

The only good news, is that we will not be around forever and start to stop playing and influencing the game. Some other generation will then have to be responsible for the failings of the game (and world!)

Steve 07.

 

[Frankymole]

I'll be 57 by the end of the year, why?

Twitch reactions can be affected by injuries, past illnesses and ageing effects. You're lucky not to have any. Not everyone can have as fast reactions as you. By their 50s, some people have had, for example, a couple of strokes or other events and thus don't have the reactions of a top FPS player.

 

[nemolomen]

Twitch reactions can be affected by injuries, past illnesses and ageing effects. You're lucky not to have any. Not everyone can have as fast reactions as you. By their 50s, some people have had, for example, a couple of strokes or other events and thus don't have the reactions of a top FPS player.

I'm a carp FPS player. My last serious FPS playing was in the era of Duke Nukem 3D/Quake/Quake ][...

I'm currently suffering tending to an RSI in my right arm (to the point that I've been mousing exclusively left handed for the last 4 or 5 weeks now) and unable to play at all ...or rather I'm pumping up the Advil and resting it until Tuesday...when U13 is released...

My secret to the High CZs is my load-out/tactics:

Those items are all as purchased from Pioneer. I stay well back and shoot from a distance for the most part. I switch to the P15 when entering buildings. I die often... the record for my last outing is here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...h-to-odyssey-and-its-good.604476/post-9899863

 

[Frankymole]

I'm a carp FPS player. My last serious FPS playing was in the era of Duke Nukem 3D/Quake/Quake ][...

I'm currently suffering tending to an RSI in my right arm (to the point that I've been mousing exclusively left handed for the last 4 or 5 weeks now) and unable to play at all ...or rather I'm pumping up the Advil and resting it until Tuesday...when U13 is released...

My secret to the High CZs is my load-out/tactics:

View attachment 316788

Those items are all as purchased from Pioneer. I stay well back and shoot from a distance for the most part. I switch to the P15 when entering buildings. I die often... the record for my last outing is here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...h-to-odyssey-and-its-good.604476/post-9899863

I don't have / can't find anywhere near that number of suit and weapon mods. Current CZ loadout is: