Legal Assassination Missions and NPC behavior

[Lazerus Artificial]

Since i cant create an Issue for that for some reason, i post it here. I tried it 6 times now and always get an Error...

When you take on a LEGAL (On Foot) Assassination Mission and Scan your Target, the Target shows up as Wanted and turns Hostile.
It will then shout at the Player and start attacking. This does not provoke a reaction from other NPCs, even though the clearly criminal NPC is commiting a Crime punishable by death right in front of them.
If we as Players do the same, we receive a Bounty and Guards attack us. But NPCs are seemingly above the Law.

If the Player then defends and shoots back, all other neutral NPCs turn hostile too. This should not happen as the Player commited no crime at all.
It only makes sense in Pirat-Owned Settlements where everyone is a criminal.

EDIT for Clarification:
As soon as we Scan a Target that has a Bounty, it should be fine to engage as long as it is not a Covert Mission. Only NPCs with a Bounty or belonging to a criminal Faction should then be allowed to attack the Player.

If we "shoot on sight" without confirming the Bounty, the Behaviour is fine as it is. It would be the same as if we attack a Pirate Ship without scanning for the Wanted Status.

 

[HeatherG]

Moved it over for ya

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Moved it over for ya

Thanks

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Moved it over for ya

Just noticed, it should be in "Suggestions"

 

[Rat Catcher]

It only makes sense in Pirat-Owned Settlements where everyone is a criminal.

Actually, not everyone in an Anarchy settlement is a criminal, but you still don't get a bounty for killing an innocent civilian.

As for your scanning issue: Have you tried scanning them without being seen? (or even after you have done the deed?)

Just noticed, it should be in "Suggestions"

You didn't suggest anything, did you?

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Actually, not everyone in an Anarchy settlement is a criminal, but you still don't get a bounty for killing an innocent civilian.

True, true, but most of them. They are a criminal Group overall.

As for your scanning issue: Have you tried scanning them without being seen? (or even after you have done the deed?)

Sure, this shows the Bounty and they wont attack, but NPCs still turn hostile when you take them out.
This behaviour would make sense if we would not scan and confirm the Bounty. Just like it is when we attack a Pirate Ship without scanning them for the Wanted Status.
But as soon as the Target is clearly identified as criminal? It should be fine to engage.

You didn't suggest anything, did you?

If the Player then defends and shoots back, all other neutral NPCs turn hostile too. This should not happen as the Player commited no crime at all.
It only makes sense in Pirat-Owned Settlements where everyone is a criminal.

Maybe not clear enough, but that was the Suggestion, so let me clarify the Post a bit

 

[Rat Catcher]

Sure, this shows the Bounty and they wont attack, but NPCs still turn hostile when you take them out.

Of course they turn hostile when you take them out, you've just taken care of Georgina, and she was buying the drinks later...
It is just one of those 'things' in EDO, taking care of a criminal by shooting in a No Fire Zone is still breaking the rules and the expected reaction happens.

I would have just wiped out the entire settlement, particularly as it was a lawful one, why just stop at one? But then, that is just me! (obviously, I don't take assassination missions at Anarchy settlements)

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Of course they turn hostile when you take them out, you've just taken care of Georgina, and she was buying the drinks later...
It is just one of those 'things' in EDO, taking care of a criminal by shooting in a No Fire Zone is still breaking the rules and the expected reaction happens.

I would have just wiped out the entire settlement, particularly as it was a lawful one, why just stop at one? But then, that is just me! (obviously, I don't take assassination missions at Anarchy settlements)

Sure, but then no Assassination mission in a Settlement should be marked as Legal as it clearly is still a crime then.
Also, not all Targets are legal to shoot, thats the issue. Sometimes the Criminals 'hide' between regular, clean NPCs. Thats why this is strange.
We are not allowed to even step into a Settlement when we have a Bounty...but they are above the Law and work there, technically turning the whole Settlement into Criminals because they then attack a clean Commander that has not received a Fine or Bounty? That just feels wrong

 

[Rat Catcher]

I rarely am without both bounties and notoriety (although currently am, but that was the trip back to Colonia taking over 20 hours) and only have issues if visiting a settlement who issued a bounty or ten...

Surely, the title "assassination" is a giveaway that there may be legal issues? Otherwise it might be marked as "retirement" or "collect bounty" instead.

We are not allowed to even step into a Settlement when we have a Bounty...but they are above the Law and work there, technically turning the whole Settlement into Criminals because they then attack a clean Commander that has not received a Fine or Bounty? That just feels wrong

This one deserves a specific response.

How would you expect murdering scum to be treated by a faction who have received their attention, bring invited in for tea & biscuits and a chat about the suffering of your last batch of victims?

Just murder everyone, every time, then steal every material, goods and data, not forgetting to steal the Power Regulator on the way out...

Yes - you will get bounties and notoriety, but it has little to no direct effect on gameplay, I'll assume you are playing in the bubble, so there are literally thousands of factions who won't care of your legal status with another faction and would be more than willing to pass you plenty of work, legal or otherwise.

For a member of an Assassination Division you do appear to be concerned about a little lawbreaking, which is strange!

 

[Rat Catcher]

Just to clarify: I'm not really criticising your point, just having fun with how we individuals approach missions that are less than entirely lawful.

At least with a 'legal assassination' mission you don't get fines or bounties...

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

I rarely am without both bounties and notoriety (although currently am, but that was the trip back to Colonia taking over 20 hours) and only have issues if visiting a settlement who issued a bounty or ten...

Surely, the title "assassination" is a giveaway that there may be legal issues? Otherwise it might be marked as "retirement" or "collect bounty" instead.

well, we are allowed to hunt pirates too. shouldnt that be a job for the System Security then? Nope, we are completely fine doing that. Pretty much every single Station even has Services where we can turn in our Bonds.
Hell, those who are especially good at it even receive Ranks and respect for it.
So yeah, killing a Criminal is really no big deal in the Elite Universe.

Yes - you will get bounties and notoriety, but it has little to no direct effect on gameplay, I'll assume you are playing in the bubble, so there are literally thousands of factions who won't care of your legal status with another faction and would be more than willing to pass you plenty of work, legal or otherwise.

Thats another issue. Crime and Punishment is just broken. The problem is not the bounty, but the NPC behaviour. It simply does not make sense for them to behave that way as it breaks the Elite lore.

For a member of an Assassination Division you do appear to be concerned about a little lawbreaking, which is strange!

Just an old name i made a few years ago for EDRPG. Needed it for a few Screenshots

Just to clarify: I'm not really criticising your point, just having fun with how we individuals approach missions that are less than entirely lawful.

At least with a 'legal assassination' mission you don't get fines or bounties...

And thats the thing. if we dont get fines our bounties, we are still Clean. So non-criminal NPCs should not attack us, as this would place a Bounty on them.

 

[FrogsFriend]

Space assassination missions generally don't have the target's friends/colleagues hanging around to react, whereas in a settlement they're right there and armed. If I saw my friend Bob having a go at a stranger, who Bob says is there to kill him, then I probably wouldn't intervene straight away and wait to see what's going on. However, if the stranger starts shooting at Bob and it turns into a gun fight I may just try and help Bob out against the murderous stranger.

I don't think anybody ever said "Hurrah, Thank god you're here!" to a low-life bounty hunter who's just turned up to murder their friend... 'legal' or not.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Space assassination missions generally don't have the target's friends/colleagues hanging around to react, whereas in a settlement they're right there and armed. If I saw my friend Bob having a go at a stranger, who Bob says is there to kill him, then I probably wouldn't intervene straight away and wait to see what's going on. However, if the stranger starts shooting at Bob and it turns into a gun fight I may just try and help Bob out against the murderous stranger.

I don't think anybody ever said "Hurrah, Thank god you're here!" to a low-life bounty hunter who's just turned up to murder their friend... 'legal' or not.

Considering the cops also attack the player and issue a bounty for attacking a wanted NPC, it seems there's a bug no? It may also be that everyone else turning hostile is part of that bug.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Space assassination missions generally don't have the target's friends/colleagues hanging around to react, whereas in a settlement they're right there and armed. If I saw my friend Bob having a go at a stranger, who Bob says is there to kill him, then I probably wouldn't intervene straight away and wait to see what's going on. However, if the stranger starts shooting at Bob and it turns into a gun fight I may just try and help Bob out against the murderous stranger.

I don't think anybody ever said "Hurrah, Thank god you're here!" to a low-life bounty hunter who's just turned up to murder their friend... 'legal' or not.

Thats why i mentioned the scenarios.

If you just show up and shoot Bob without confirming the Bounty? Yeah, the behavior is fine. For all they know, you just shot Bob dead!

But if you "follow the rules" and reveal Bob is a murderous Criminal? Well...screw Bob.

Exception would then be, if Bobs friend too is a Criminal and wants to defend his Partner.

Considering the cops also attack the player and issue a bounty for attacking a wanted NPC, it seems there's a bug no? It may also be that everyone else turning hostile is part of that bug.

Thats exactly the point. They attack even if you confirm that the Target has a Bounty. This means that those NPCs would comit a crime and receive a Bounty when attacking the Player.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Thats exactly the point. They attack even if you confirm that the Target has a Bounty. This means that those NPCs would comit a crime and receive a Bounty when attacking the Player.

What happens if you shoot at a wanted ship within the No Fire Zone of a station? Don't the station and security forces turn criminal and shoot at your innocent ship?

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

What happens if you shoot at a wanted ship within the No Fire Zone of a station? Don't the station and security forces turn criminal and shoot at your innocent ship?

Thats completely different and doesnt help here. You cant hunt a Criminal inside a Station.
You will never receive a Mission to destroy a Ship inside a Station.
In fact, i have never even seen a Wanted Ship inside a Station other than Players...

Also, if the wanted ships shoots at YOU inside a station, IT will get blown up...not you.
Whoever fires a Weapon inside a station will get blown up.
This does not apply to criminal NPCs who attack a player in a settlement

 

[Rat Catcher]

Thats completely different and doesnt help here. You cant hunt a Criminal inside a Station.
You will never receive a Mission to destroy a Ship inside a Station.
In fact, i have never even seen a Wanted Ship inside a Station other than Players...

You are just excusing yourself in responding that way... Sorry.
You break the No Fire Zone rule, things get violent, mission or not. Why is that so hard to understand?

Actually, if using silenced weapons and nobody notices the murder, you can walk out of a settlement without a hitch. Get heard and/or seen, it is mayhem!

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

When you're in a settlement you are under the jurisdiction of the faction that owns that settlement. When you scan the target and find they are wanted, the bounty on them will be for a different faction (that has no jurisdiction in your current location). In addition to breaking the no-fire-zone, you also have no legal standing to attack them.

You can see a similar thing happen when a guard scans you and finds you have a bounty for somewhere else; they say something along the lines of "I thought you pilots always respected the law, get going!" instead of attacking you. They know you're a criminal, but not to the people they're working for.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

When you're in a settlement you are under the jurisdiction of the faction that owns that settlement. When you scan the target and find they are wanted, the bounty on them will be for a different faction (that has no jurisdiction in your current location). In addition to breaking the no-fire-zone, you also have no legal standing to attack them.

You can see a similar thing happen when a guard scans you and finds you have a bounty for somewhere else; they say something along the lines of "I thought you pilots always respected the law, get going!" instead of attacking you. They know you're a criminal, but not to the people they're working for.

now that is a good explanation.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

You are just excusing yourself in responding that way... Sorry.
You break the No Fire Zone rule, things get violent, mission or not. Why is that so hard to understand?

Actually, if using silenced weapons and nobody notices the murder, you can walk out of a settlement without a hitch. Get heard and/or seen, it is mayhem!

Yeah, atleast thats a thing that works now. I think at release they had a Hivemind where that was kinda broken. You shot one and everyone knew it was you.