Newcomer / Intro Do Our Ships Leave Behind Bread Crumbs?

[Greasetrap42]

I visit a system for the first time. I don't know much about the system until I scan it with the FSS. Then I know info about all the planets including who discovered them. How is that possible? Shouldn't I have to cross reference with Universal Cartographers to learn that?

Do our ships leave behind a permanent signature that other cmdrs can read with their FSS?

 

[Batwingsix]

Think of it as the system mapping (orbits and planet types) are data dumped into everyones nav systems as Universal cartographs uploads new findings into the system. Would be kind of like nav and approach charts IRL where they get data dumps with all updated information. Universal Cartographs just doesnt upload the detailed scans because they primarily focus on the basics.

 

[Greasetrap42]

If I try looking at a system that I have never visited but obviously others have, I am not given info regarding that system. When I arrive I don't even know the number of planets or what kind. I must use the FSS. Then I get planet info AND info about cmdrs that have visited. I haven't connected to Universal Cartographers yet but I have info on the first cmdrs that have visited the system.

It is possible that my ship has all the Universal Cartographic data from my most recent upload and refuses to give it to me. But I don't think this is how it is.
-> I know you can purchase system data, but I believe you must be docked at a port to do this. Presumably you are purchasing the data from UC.

Example system in the bubble I haven't visited but others have. My ship gives me no info on the system I haven't visited.

This whole discussion is from the POV of a cmdr. I am well aware it is a game and the data is stored on servers.

 

[Batwingsix]

Probably because your ships system (internal guidance) needs to get into the system to correlate what UC had uploaded. Considering some of the systems were scanned years ago, and some have orbital periods that can exceed a year it, it is probably a nav system fail safe to not show what is in that system until your on board systems can cross reference it.

Or the nav systems are designed in such a way that upon entering a system, it sends for the data which is immediately loaded into the local system data of the computer, any you have been to already will be cache'd in the system for a faster reference after leaving or while still in a particular system.

 

[Greasetrap42]

There is no issue using purchased system data when docked at a station, regardless of how old it might be.

Also I can enter a system that I visited 5 years ago and no FSS re-scanning is required.

We can be certain UC data is not being transferred to/from my ship when I am out exploring because I have to be at a station to transfer cartographic data.

 

[Batwingsix]

Yes but purchased data is from a system that is usually adjacent or within a certain distance of where you the purchase is made.

The ones that you can purchase tend to be either populated, which would allow for an accurate representation of the system as it stands since everything will be tracked in real time by stations, and personnel within the system. Those that aren't are usually high traffic systems without population, but with enough commercial traffic and close enough even to ensure local scanners within the populated regions nearby can use a spectral system to keep watch on the system therefore creating a nearly real time system map within the databanks.

UC data won't be transmitted from your ship to them, true, as you have to sell the data to receive credit (notable when first discovery happens), however once it is in the UC system, there would be few limitations other than a proverbial time to receive on update packages to your system. Perhaps even done as the system plots and cross references whether you have been in the system before, which will draw it from a cache in the onboard nav systems for use once you arrive.

I am sure there are times where a commander has discovered a new system, charted it, and continued their mission only to have another commander who discovered it either prior or after them. At that point it is whoever can sell the data first will get the recognition. After that, a comms link with the galactic navigations system through a UC hub or hubs would probably be transmitting data in real time as it comes in from their servers. In 2022 aviation had a multitude of navigation systems from Honeywell to Garmin, 3307 it looks like we have a single one which makes sense considering the size of the area at our feet to navigate.

 

[Greasetrap42]

There is nothing in the game to suggest UC data is being fed to/from ships as they are being flown. Quite the opposite, we must return to a station for data transfer.

 

[Batwingsix]

Tech limitations exist. You cant send video to a television station from your television to broadcast on the air. It would all be based around system design. It takes a lot less power to receive a signal than to push a signal out. A ships powerplant can only produce so much, but an orbital or ground based station can produce vastly more which would facilitate the ability to push signals out far enough to be received. Just like in aviation, you are going to be able to hear someone transmitting form a control tower at a range before you they can hear a transmission from you, which is why the communications are passed between frequencies when they are. That is because the ground facility has the power and equipment to be able to reach that far as opposed to an aircraft that is relying on engine generators for power and weight limitations for equipment. The same concept can be applied to the ships we have, we arent flying around with massive antenna arrays around our ships with an entire section dedicated to a transmission station to reach thousands of lightyears. Let alone have powerplants capable of pushing the amount of power we would need to get a transmission off to reach the bubble from the middle of nowhere without cooking or even shutting down the rest of our systems for that transmission. Even settlement power buildings are only creating a fraction of the power that even an orbital would be producing.

 

[metatheurgist]

Yes, I drop a deuce on everything I visit. My DNA is logged with Uni Carto.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Tech limitations exist. You cant send video to a television station from your television to broadcast on the air. It would all be based around system design. It takes a lot less power to receive a signal than to push a signal out. A ships powerplant can only produce so much, but an orbital or ground based station can produce vastly more...

For our friendly UC to transmit useful data to our specific ship regarding our current location there must be bidirectional communication.

Regardless.... why would they send us "first discovered cmdr names" instead of actual useful system info??? Implementing a fancy galactic data network to provide cmdr names and nothing else of value makes no sense. It is funny though. I would prefer free donuts and coffee at the pilot's lounge thanks.

 

[Batwingsix]

For our friendly UC to transmit useful data to our specific ship regarding our current location there must be bidirectional communication.

Regardless.... why would they send us "first discovered cmdr names" instead of actual useful system info??? Implementing a fancy galactic data network to provide cmdr names and nothing else of value makes no sense. It is funny though. I would prefer free donuts and coffee at the pilot's lounge thanks.

It wouldnt require bi-directional. Even old transponders in aircraft only transmit and didnt receive, even now they will only talk to each other if there is a conflict. Think of it as nothing more than a software update transmission. Mass transmission sent every half second or so which is cached in all of our navigation systems and only loaded when it detects that that system is the one it is in, or upon purchase of the up-to-date information from a port which offers it.

 

[metatheurgist]

I think this is just one of those convenience things. Some players don't want to "waste time" exploring something that someone else has already marked so this just lets them know.

 

[Batwingsix]

I think this is just one of those convenience things. Some players don't want to "waste time" exploring something that someone else has already marked so this just lets them know.

Problem with that is some of these systems havent been touched since even before Horizons. Horizons brought with it different planet styles, not to mention Thargoid and Guardian stuff which could be present on a system which was already "marked", but was marked prior to them being added... not to mention there very well could be things not yet discovered in general, let alone in a system that was mapped in 2015 and never seen again. I have been to a number of systems where the star had been discovered, data turned in and showed "First discovered by X", only to find out there were 43 planets in orbit that they didnt FSS. Others have had 4 out of 20 planets discovered... not sure how they screwed that up but more money for me. Never assume that because someone has jumped there, it has been fully mapped out.

 

[Maolagin]

For our friendly UC to transmit useful data to our specific ship regarding our current location there must be bidirectional communication.

Regardless.... why would they send us "first discovered cmdr names" instead of actual useful system info??? Implementing a fancy galactic data network to provide cmdr names and nothing else of value makes no sense. It is funny though. I would prefer free donuts and coffee at the pilot's lounge thanks.

Right, if you want to theorycraft an explanation that goes beyond "because it's a game" you have to assume a galactic FTL comms system. I think the limitation needs to be that the FTL can only handle very small amounts of data. So when you honk the system, the "calibration pulse" works out how many bodies there are and primes the FSS. In parallel your ship queries the galactic UC database and retrieves basic nav data for all the already-reported bodies. No additional query is needed when you FSS for the undiscovered bodies, because you already know they're undiscovered since they weren't revealed by the honk.

You have to return to a UC office to sell the data because the full scan package is too large to go over the FTL network in real time, and that's when they give you credit for the discovery. Although you can transmit basic status live - thus the immediate first-footfall credit. (Now that I mention it, I'm not actually sure what other players see if you first-footfall an undiscovered planet but don't sell the scan data. At any rate I've never seen a planet that had a footfall name but not a discoverer.)

 

[Batwingsix]

Right, if you want to theorycraft an explanation that goes beyond "because it's a game" you have to assume a galactic FTL comms system. I think the limitation needs to be that the FTL can only handle very small amounts of data. So when you honk the system, the "calibration pulse" works out how many bodies there are and primes the FSS. In parallel your ship queries the galactic UC database and retrieves basic nav data for all the already-reported bodies. No additional query is needed when you FSS for the undiscovered bodies, because you already know they're undiscovered since they weren't revealed by the honk.

You have to return to a UC office to sell the data because the full scan package is too large to go over the FTL network in real time, and that's when they give you credit for the discovery. Although you can transmit basic status live - thus the immediate first-footfall credit. (Now that I mention it, I'm not actually sure what other players see if you first-footfall an undiscovered planet but don't sell the scan data. At any rate I've never seen a planet that had a footfall name but not a discoverer.)

It will show your first foot fall immediately. For whatever reason it will put that data on without any of the discovered data prior to it being sold.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Yes, I drop a deuce on everything I visit. My DNA is logged with Uni Carto.

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I think this method is actually possible, if not entirely plausible. Here's an explanation:

1. A commander dumps their waste into a rule-based known orbit about the main star (or barycenter, as appropriate).
2. Later, a different commander scans the system, including a bio scan of the known orbit of a possible previous visitor's "dump orbit" (Lol).
3. DNA is compared to the computer's database of pilot federation DNA.

I propose a new Dump Discovery Scanner and mechanic, as part of the process.

Edit: And if anyone has constipation, all bets are off.

 

[Batwingsix]

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I think this method is actually possible, if not entirely plausible. Here's an explanation:

1. A commander dumps their waste into a rule-based known orbit about the main star (or barycenter, as appropriate).
2. Later, a different commander scans the system, including a bio scan of the known orbit of a possible previous visitor's "dump orbit" (Lol).
3. DNA is compared to the computer's database of pilot federation DNA.

I propose a new Dump Discovery Scanner and mechanic, as part of the process.

Edit: And if anyone has constipation, all bets are off.

Depending on the system and the type of star you spring in next to (looking at you white dwarf), said DNA sample may be of large enough quantity to fault the system out

 

[Miscellaneous]

Yeah hmm maybe the free data is only unlocked by the unique system scan data key so they are stingy and give it to you only if you are there or buy the data. Hmm (an in-game way to think about it perhaps, if not think about it too hard).

It's like you get the known orbital planes for free. It might make more sense if D-scan put the system full of unexplored bodies on the orbitals like that instead of one by one upon taking FSS. I'm just musing

Sometimes the bungled mappings are a mystery but I was informed recently that early version the game could not do a distant scan. So it was more prone to missing things including the primary star. Also, sometimes in the modern day a group near the star were discovered by proximity while passing through. Finally, -- I think about this some, polishing up their work you know, probably leave a few behind on the way -- finally, an explorer may have certain habits to keep things moving. Like scan for a couple minutes, or once quick around the orbital plane and get on down the road, not worry about it.

 

[metatheurgist]

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I think this method is actually possible, if not entirely plausible. Here's an explanation:

1. A commander dumps their waste into a rule-based known orbit about the main star (or barycenter, as appropriate).
2. Later, a different commander scans the system, including a bio scan of the known orbit of a possible previous visitor's "dump orbit" (Lol).
3. DNA is compared to the computer's database of pilot federation DNA.

I propose a new Dump Discovery Scanner and mechanic, as part of the process.

Edit: And if anyone has constipation, all bets are off.

Wait...you thought I was joking?

 

[Maolagin]

Sometimes the bungled mappings are a mystery but I was informed recently that early version the game could not do a distant scan. So it was more prone to missing things including the primary star.

Prior to the exploration update in 3.3, there was no FSS or mapping probes and the overall exploration mechanic worked differently. Assuming you had an advanced discovery scanner installed (nobody used the basic one), the honk revealed all bodies in the system map, but gave only minimal details for undiscovered bodies. To scan a body and get discovery credit, you had to target it and fly within a certain distance. This meant it took a very long time to fully scan a large system, and lots of bodies were missed.