Make the engineering grind remotely palatable

[sprecdaddy]

While anecdotal, I personally know 5 people who have this game, but refuse to play it due to black hole time-sink that is engineering. That's lost revenue for Frontier, and I'm sure they are far from the only ones with this mindset. There's a difference between "we want the player to feel accomplished" and "we hope you have room for a second full time job". We are closer to the latter than the former with the current system.

The famous suggested changes brought up by Frontier however many months ago are apparently never going to surface and I can't help but complain. This has to be one of the worst systems ever created.
Here's a list problems with solutions that cannot possibly be hard to implement from a technical standpoint.

1) We are in the 34th century and somehow I can only pin one set of blueprints. Ok. Data storage must be hard in this universe.
2) Watching the tediously gathered materials drain from my inventory while getting 5% of the blueprint done is indefensible.
3) Having to take a combat ship 100ly to get a experimental effect applied isn't engaging, rewarding, or even slightly fun. See point 1.
4) Trading a grade 4 mat for grade 3 mats in a different category and having said grade 3 mat cost MORE than the grade 4 is always a blast.
5) Mission material rewards are vastly too low and unvaried. Let me spend an hour killing 50 ships for 3 grade 4 materials. Yea, no.
6) Cut down the amount of engineers or let each offer at least G4 for whatever they do.

With the "disappointing reception to Odyssey" (exonerative tense like it wasn't fully deserved) I don't see why Frontier wouldn't make quick changes to appease what little player base remains, or make even the slightest attempt to reengage players who abandoned the game for greener pastures. Revamping engineering and making it suck less would be a step in the right direction.

 

[Greasetrap42]

OP, for the purpose of discussion it might be good to break the conversation into:

a) Ship module engineering (Horizons)
b) On foot equipment engineering (Odyssey)

IMO the two are fairly different conversations.

 

[Greasetrap42]

a) Ship module engineering (Horizons)

• Not as big a deal as many make it out to be.
• Fully G5 engineer a ship collecting mats during a few weeks of mixed gameplay, its fine.
• Prepare to fully G5 another ship (collect mats) during a a variety of gameplay for several weeks, its fine.
• Fully G5 engineer a ship today starting with minimal mats. Starting now, drop everything and do it. Yes, its a chore.
• Fully G5 engineer a ship by following mindless easy but mind-numbing grind methods. Yes, its a chore.
• Fully G5 engineer a ship with only one type of focused gameplay. Yes, its a chore.
• Fully G5 a fleet of ships rather quickly. Yes, its a chore.

b) On foot equipment engineering (Odyssey)
- Many players such as myself can't be bothered.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Stock up on mats and head up to Colonia. All the engineers within 50ly of each other makes a difference.

 

[Drokken]

sprecdaddy, I agree with all of your statement, esp. the pinnning only one blueprint.

 

[Factabulous]

Engineering is optional now - well, apart from PvP, but even then among friends you could agree to skip it. I bet if the Famous Five found that engineering was removed then they'd just come up with another reason not to play - they're just trying to be kind to the OP.

 

[Rochester]

Engineering modules is not an intentional ’end game’ goal, these are all optional extras, they are nice to have but are not necessary to playing the game.

The grind was intended to be part of the gameplay and put in place because…

A: FD don’t want everyone maxed out in god ships, as it negates the whole purpose. So grinding is a method to obstruct such progress whilst giving the elements some semblance of achievement.

B: FD looked at the game after launch and noticed how players liked to ‘grind’ so they put grind in the game where before there was none…from that point on everything seemed to go down hill.

Granted grinding it is tedious. But it’s intentional tedium.

 

[Factabulous]

Granted it is tedious. But it’s intentional tedium.

Well, it's tedious if you grind it out while looking at a list of mats eagerly waiting to have the exact numbers.

I find If I just play the game and occasionally check what I have got mats for it's actually fine. Usually I have what I need or I just need a couple of trades to get what I need.

Do a few missions, keep your eyes open, and it soon adds up

 

[Morbad]

Engineering modules is not an intentional ’end game’ goal

It's more of a pre-game goal for some activities.

they are nice to have but are not necessary to playing the game.

Unless you want to be competitive, directly or indirectly, with those that have them.

Opting out of Engineering generally locks one out many victory conditions in organic PvP, most competitive racing, or being able to contribute influence at the same pace as one's peers.

Engineering is optional now - well, apart from PvP, but even then among friends you could agree to skip it.

Organized PvP is a small subset of PvP and unEngineered PvP is a small subset of organized PvP.

You're also generally not going to turn in combat bonds, bounty vouchers, mission completions, merits, or cargo at the same rate you would with an Engineered vessel. Even when these are not specific goals, cooperative play can be more difficult for those whose characters are lacking hardware.

I bet if the Famous Five found that engineering was removed then they'd just come up with another reason not to play - they're just trying to be kind to the OP.

While I don't know the OP's friends, I do know many regular players who abandoned the game when Engineers landed...almost quit myself actually. Of course, Frontier already had our money.

That said, I strongly suspect that Engineering is more of an attraction than a discouragement and results in people playing longer, and spending more, on the balance, than they would otherwise. Not that I've ever seen any positive correlation with the profitability of a game and the quality of it's gameplay.

 

[zikolach]

Just a thought - what if engineering for small ships was cheaper than large ones? Not so much as their price difference, but 2-3 times cheaper in materials cost.

 

[Gut]

How about the Engineers did their job , You tick boxes on a list ,that you want done too your ship , and they tell you how long this would take . small things could take 10mins or so , bigger class 5 stuff could take a day at least . it's a cost of your time only .

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Just a thought - what if engineering for small ships was cheaper than large ones? Not so much as their price difference, but 2-3 times cheaper in materials cost.

It kind of is, certainly when you look at the comparisons of material costs for my iEagle and my Corvette, especially HRPs and shield boosters.

 

[St0rmFury]

Just a thought - what if engineering for small ships was cheaper than large ones? Not so much as their price difference, but 2-3 times cheaper in materials cost.

Careful what you wish for, FDev might just increase the mats required for larger modules instead.

 

[Winterwalker]

Umm ... I like engineering ships, suits and small arms up .. it's one of my hobbies. If you don't like it don't do it.

Spoiler

Learn to fly FA off, duck and cover on the ground and be an ace shot with fixed weps instead

Is earning the money to A rate your modules or upgrade to a bigger ship a grind as well?

 

[Hellrider]

About ship engineering I want to say one thing.

It was hp of one of my ships after engineering of hull
G1 roll #1: 1019
G2 roll #1: 1053
G2 roll #2: 1065
G3 roll #1: 1094
G3 roll #2: 1105
G4 roll #1: 1127
G4 roll #2: 1141
G4 roll #3: 1150
G5 roll #1: 1167
G5 roll #2: 1175
G5 roll #3: 1187
G5 roll #4: 1199
G5 roll #5: 1200
G5 roll #6: 1201
G5 roll #7: 1201
Life is better, if you ignore g5

 

[Northpin]

2) Watching the tediously gathered materials drain from my inventory while getting 5% of the blueprint done is indefensible.

Dont engineer to the full extent of it.
Dont go for full G5 engineering - stop after 1-2 G5 rolls
Or even better, stop at G3-G4 engineering - diminishing returns are quite big when going past G3 engineering

3) Having to take a combat ship 100ly to get a experimental effect applied isn't engaging, rewarding, or even slightly fun. See point 1.

Having a combat ship means you'll be using MRP - more than one - which means you can replace them with Guadian FSD boosters and Fuel scoops.
Else, you can engineer optionals (Shields, HRP, Shield Boosters, even weapons) by flying to the engineer in a ship with a proper jump range - like a Conda for example.
You can do so to engineer a full batch of Shield Boosters and HRP for example

There are ways to do it and yes, it's absolutely normal for a fully outfitted combat ship to trade jump range for combat prowess, but again you dont need to jump that ship all over the bubble to engineer it.

5) Mission material rewards are vastly too low and unvaried. Let me spend an hour killing 50 ships for 3 grade 4 materials. Yea, no.

Mission rewards are ok, and - especially valid for combat/massacre missions - they come ontop of what you may get from the exploded npc ships.
So fit a size 3 Mining or Operations MLC, a cargo rack* and scoop all the materials from those 50 ships.
Profit

But i guess it's just easier to rant on the forums than actually playing the game, anyway if that made you feel better, at least the rant served a purpose


Edit:

*AND...

Spoiler: AND...

 

[metatheurgist]

Is earning the money to A rate your modules or upgrade to a bigger ship a grind as well?

Not since they made it P easy. With a bit more whining I'm sure we can do the same to engineering.

 

[Hellrider]

With changes similar to money...better just not touch engineering

Performance gap before and after it is problem. Not gathering materials (but they could apply upgrades from ody for ships- g5 just cost X materials, and after paying it you have it at 100%, without rolls, without random values).

Untill this moment...I will just ignore G5. It is waste of materials and time to understand it. Fact, that I can buy additional ONE hp for my 1200hp ship doesnt mean that I have to do it only because it is possible. You know, price/performance ratio.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

There wont change much. Design phulosophy was always that the players deserve nothing unless they spend ridiculous amounts of time gathering stuff together to unlock. It's not done to give players entertainment - it's there to keep the gameplay hostage to the unwashed masses and pretend the users have fun when most just suffer from sunk cost fallacy while they grind their rear sore for some arbitrary powercreep. And when stuff runs out FD just adds another round of powercreep to grind on top.

 

[Greasetrap42]

3) Having to take a combat ship 100ly to get a experimental effect applied isn't engaging, rewarding, or even slightly fun. See point 1.

Use a bubble hopper. An equivalent ship with good jump range and the sized slots you need. Visit the engineers and get your desired modules engineered. For modules like shield boosters get a variety engineered because you only get 1 blueprint per engineer and its nice to have a few to pick from. Keep a couple for your next ship build. They don't go bad and storage is free.

I always use INARA so I have a good idea how many mats I need before wasting a trip to an engineer.

Personally I don't get a new ship unless I have the credits and mats to fully outfit it to my desire. Or close enough to make it a good ship.