it feels like Exploration has ben left out to die...

[SwingFish]

Exploration is a nice activity, plus elite is the only game that is VAST, but for some reason, it feels like the Developers do not really have any interest in the core feature (Exploration) anymore.

A few examples:

• Discovering new bodies or even whole systems has ZERO visual effect,
  removing the incentive visually and psychologically to keep exploring.
• in-game there is zero indication if a player has actually made a discovery or potentially made one
  (its just quietly booked in the ledger and that's it)
• The pay is terrible for the effort taken
• the API doesn't provide details about those discoveries made in the form of events,
  so 3rd party sites/apps cannot provide the reward visually either.
• The only way to get the gratification is to make a bookmark and check again in the galaxy map after turning the data in.
• Bookmarks are impossible to properly manage, creating a massive mess if one actively uses the bookmark system.

It feels like a missed opportunity since one of the major parts of elite dangerous is/was exploration.

even a visual reward would greatly push the players into more exploring, which would lead to more playtime and that would look better in player numbers in shareholder meetings

It just feels like that part seems to be abandoned on purpose, making me wonder if the whole travel/exploration thing is coming to an end in favor of FPS gameplay.

 

[Northpin]

Not exactly sure what you mean by Zero visual effect

Do you want 2d animated effects popping on your screen (like in Scot Pilgrim vs The World) when you pop in a newly discovered system?
A flow of coins flooding your cockpit when you DSS a HM Terraformable?
A Jackpot effect when you FSS a GGG?

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I suspect that would be rather annoying after more than a couple in a row.

 

[SwingFish]

Not exactly sure what you mean by Zero visual effect

Do you want 2d animated effects popping on your screen (like in Scot Pilgrim vs The World) when you pop in a newly discovered system?
A flow of coins flooding your cockpit when you DSS a HM Terraformable?
A Jackpot effect when you FSS a GGG?

Yeah, that may work, if the player is 7 years old or my cat.

for anyone else, a simple fact-display in the Info window would do, if done properly that would encourage a newer player to actually check out what they have found, maybe do some mapping not just for the money but for the sake of exploration itself, you know .. spark some fire and whatnot.

if the API would provide this data in form of an event, sites like Inara could actually have an off-game ranking or show the number of bodies discovered in feeds and stuff like this.

 

[Northpin]

If you explore, as in if you actively examine every system you drop in, instead you having an api to highlight thigs that may be or not of interest, there are better chances of having a sense of achievement when you actually find something.

With a such api that is feeding all the info to you, what have you achieved? you just pressed J once.
It's like dropping in a haz res and launching an energy bomb - bang, everthing is dead. you won. Next haz res please

IMO, it's perfectly fine the game is not spoonfeeding such info.
Who wants to speedrun through exploration and tick some boxes, can use one of the 3rd party APIs

I for one enjoy to pop in a new system, fss everything, examine the system and orrery map, orbits, bodies, etc.
with no api running in the background, but then again i'm not a pro explorer...

 

[SwingFish]

i totally agree, spoonfeeding would be really bad,
since that its what its all about, going into the black, not knowing what you may find.

all my points where based on after the fact, not before, and certainly not to provide any help.

 

[SwingFish]

let me give you an example, i found a number of systems never discovered before, (about 400Ly from the bubble)
I knew they were not discovered, (d-scan say 19 bodies .. system map just show the star)

then load up FSS, find the objects, map them and maybe even land on them,
that results in my name being placed on the galaxy map for everyone to see, once the data is turned in.

but at this point (unless you have bookmark the system and re-check manually) there is no indication in the game itself that your accomplishment has been completed for everyone to see. so a new player may discouraged to do that after some time, as they are not likely to actually see the accomplishment in form of the CMDR name imprinted on the galaxy map for everyone to see. Its about getting a incentive for the efforts taken, money is just a commodity (in Elite and IRL), being named as the CMDR that made the discovery is supposed to be a huge thing, especially for a new player, does not require any extra flashy thing to happen.

even a simple Mail from the Cartographic Department, confirming the contribution and mentioning the CMDR will be named forever as the one found it, would make a huge difference already to a new player.

 

[Northpin]

but at this point (unless you have bookmark the system and re-check manually) there is no indication in the game itself that your accomplishment has been completed for everyone to see. so a new player may discouraged to do that after some time, as they are not likely to actually see the accomplishment in form of the CMDR name imprinted on the galaxy map for everyone to see. Its about getting a incentive for the efforts taken, money is just a commodity (in Elite and IRL), being named as the CMDR that made the discovery is supposed to be a huge thing, especially for a new player, does not require any extra flashy thing to happen.

You are aware there are 100 billions stars in this galaxy
And that there are commanders that first discovered more than 100,000 systems?


You get to imprint your name, permanently, in the Galaxy Map.
And if you actually manage to stumble over something interesting, you may get to brag in the dedicated forums

 

[Fnord Velkor]

....

even a simple Mail from the Cartographic Department, confirming the contribution and mentioning the CMDR will be named forever as the one found it, would make a huge difference already to a new player.

First of all, let me just disagree with everything* in the OP. If you are out exploring you probably are using one or more of EDD, CaptLog, EDSM, etc so you have record of what you have discovered and what it is worth. Visually - you get an on-screen graphic telling you if you have first footfall - this would wind me up if we got that for every first discovery anyway.

More to the point you need to sell the carto data before you get your name on the discovery and map tags so there is nothing for carto to email you about. You get a screen where carto tells you stuff when you do sell the data.

* OK I'll agree bookmarks are a joke.

 

[Eahlstan]

let me give you an example, i found a number of systems never discovered before, (about 400Ly from the bubble)
I knew they were not discovered, (d-scan say 19 bodies .. system map just show the star)

then load up FSS, find the objects, map them and maybe even land on them,
that results in my name being placed on the galaxy map for everyone to see, once the data is turned in.

but at this point (unless you have bookmark the system and re-check manually) there is no indication in the game itself that your accomplishment has been completed for everyone to see. so a new player may discouraged to do that after some time, as they are not likely to actually see the accomplishment in form of the CMDR name imprinted on the galaxy map for everyone to see. Its about getting a incentive for the efforts taken, money is just a commodity (in Elite and IRL), being named as the CMDR that made the discovery is supposed to be a huge thing, especially for a new player, does not require any extra flashy thing to happen.

even a simple Mail from the Cartographic Department, confirming the contribution and mentioning the CMDR will be named forever as the one found it, would make a huge difference already to a new player.

So UC should send you an interstellar mail because you found a body that UC doesn't know about? That totally lacks basic logic, UC isn't actively tracking anyone out in the black, you have to tell them about what you found when you return to a station.
Also any visual effect and/or mail would annoy the hell out of me. Yesterday I first discovered 177 systems with 2257 bodies, it would drive me insane if any noticeable visual effect would exist. And 2257 mails in a day? Hell no.
Also there already is a visual indicator if you are the first to find something.
First: Already discovered bodies immediately show up on the radar when jumping in a system.
Second: Already discovered bodies are shown in the left hand nav panel.
Third: When FSSing already discovered bodies have the name tag of the first discoverer shown in the FSS. And there's a second tag for first mappers. And a third for first footfallers.
So there are already a ton of visual hints that you first discovered something.

 

[Helvellyn]

I agree with the "don't pester me with some sort of notificaiton every single time." I've been out on an exploration trip for a couple of months now, it would drive me mad.

What I'd like to see is ongoing work on the planetary tech to constantly improve it (although that has the downside that overall improvements will still end up rchanging stuff), thus giving more interesting stuff to find. I'd like to see more work in geology.

It would also be nice if mapping a planet produced a meaningful, useful map.

 

[SwingFish]

So UC should send you an interstellar mail because you found a body that UC doesn't know about? That totally lacks basic logic, UC isn't actively tracking anyone out in the black, you have to tell them about what you found when you return to a station.

i'm sorry I assumed everyone knows that "confirmation" is the confirmation of delivery at cartographic and verification,.
my bad.

 

[SwingFish]

I agree with the "don't pester me with some sort of notificaiton every single time." I've been out on an exploration trip for a couple of months now, it would drive me mad.

well since you "out" you wont get any anyway since the data have to be delivered in order to count, so we are talking about a single message after you have done this,
also, some basic game logic (literally half a line of code) could make sure this is only done for the first discovery a NEW PLAYER made.

the idea was about to encourage NEW PLAYERS to actually explore instead of doing road to riches like robots.

 

[Fnord Velkor]

...

even a simple Mail from the Cartographic Department, confirming the contribution and mentioning the CMDR will be named forever as the one found it, would make a huge difference already to a new player.

i'm sorry I assumed everyone knows that "confirmation" is the confirmation of delivery at cartographic and verification,.
my bad.

Why would you need an e-mail when the carto screen flashes you a big page saying congratulations you are first to discover ... etc.

Seriously, I don't know what you want if that isn't enough.

Tell you what - join EDSM and start collecting badges, maybe that will satisfy your need for visual satisfaction.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

• Discovering new bodies or even whole systems has ZERO visual effect,
  removing the incentive visually and psychologically to keep exploring.

Not sure what you mean by that. Each planet looks a good deal different. There's a lot worth looking at if you know where and how to look.

• in-game there is zero indication if a player has actually made a discovery or potentially made one
  (its just quietly booked in the ledger and that's it)

Yes, there is and it's simple: Use your D-scanner as you enter the system. It tells you how many objects there are in the system. Then open your 1 panel to list the planets. If the number the D-scanner tells you does not appear in your list, then you're in a new system that hasn't been discovered yet.

Example: You jump in, D-scan and it tells you 21 bodies. You look in the system panel and you have nothing in it. Congratulations, you just discovered that system.

• The pay is terrible for the effort taken

I wouldn't say terrible, but it's certainly not in line with mining or stacking pirate massacre missions. Then again, nothing else in the game is either. I just left the carrier 20 minutes ago and I'm at 10 million.

• the API doesn't provide details about those discoveries made in the form of events,
  so 3rd party sites/apps cannot provide the reward visually either.

Ummm, yes it does. It doesn't give you the exact amount, but it does tell you the base amount so you know the absolute least you're going to get paid.

• The only way to get the gratification is to make a bookmark and check again in the galaxy map after turning the data in.

No idea what that means.

• Bookmarks are impossible to properly manage, creating a massive mess if one actively uses the bookmark system.

Incorrect. It's perfectly done. (One of the few things in this game that actually is.)

You can bookmark in different catagories: System, planet, station, etc. You're simply doing it wrong.

 

[Fnord Velkor]

well since you "out" you wont get any anyway since the data have to be delivered in order to count, so we are talking about a single message after you have done this,
also, some basic game logic (literally half a line of code) could make sure this is only done for the first discovery a NEW PLAYER made.

the idea was about to encourage NEW PLAYERS to actually explore instead of doing road to riches like robots.

Well if you want to divert your argument towards encouraging new explorers perhaps you need to think about what is already there. The first time you discover (i.e. new to you) ANYTHING in a sector you get a message in your FSS window saying so. Maybe you forgot that.

 

[SwingFish]

Why would you need an e-mail when the carto screen flashes you a big page saying congratulations you are first to discover ... etc.

Seriously, I don't know what you want if that isn't enough.

Tell you what - join EDSM and start collecting badges, maybe that will satisfy your need for visual satisfaction.

This whole topic wasn't about YOU, or me, or anyone that replied so far, the idea was about ENCOURAGEMENT FOR NEW PLAYERS,
this could be limited to the first discovery for example, the idea was to have this gameplay type stand out more.
Since it pays very little, and the general public is more about making fast coin than about actual gameplay.

I specifically wrote "push the players into more exploring" in my original post,
if you already do exploring, EVERYTHING i wrote doesn't apply to you! because you already know how it works.

I was just suggesting some things that could attract more players to that type of gameplay
PLAYERS THAT HAVE NOT YET DONE IT OR JUST STARTING DOING IT, nothing more nothing less.

Why is everyone projecting everything onto themselves? i did not address anyone personally, not even myself as I'm well aware of how it works.

I just noticed that all the discoveries I made so far just happened and there was no indication that that event ever took place,
and the only way to Gratify oneself is to bookmark the place to look it up later or go there again.
that could throw off a new player that doesn't have the wisdom, greatness, playtime, and knowledge of external tools as you guys do

 

[Marvin the Martian]

By the way, this is that system. It had a water world and two metallics, so I just doubled my money to 20 million. Not bad for 10 minutes work.

 

[marx]

The thing is, according to the game you are first to discover not when you scan, but when you sell the data. Then it does give you feedback, with the message congratulating you that you were the first to discover, listing the bonus you got, and so on.
In other words, when you get tags on a body, you get the feedback, congratulations and such. This is either when you do footfall, or when you sell data.

Honestly, the current system isn't great, and it could be improved quite easily: the game could reward the first discovery / mapping tags immediately, and give the credit reward via vouchers, which you'd still have to sell somewhere. I made a detailed suggestion on this here, going into the current issues and the possible solutions to them, it might be an interesting read. Of course, Frontier has for many years almost always only listened to feedback whenever they did something that caused a massive shi uproar over the various media, so things will stay as they are.

Exploration is a nice activity, plus elite is the only game that is VAST, but for some reason, it feels like the Developers do not really have any interest in the core feature (Exploration) anymore.

Exploration never has been the core feature of neither Elite Dangerous, nor any of the previous Elite games. But yes, unfortunately the developers have historically only spent the bare minimum on the game mechanics of exploration. (They only ever did a major update once, and even that turned out to mostly make things worse.) It's really quite interesting that they've spent far more development work on procedural generation, both on the galaxy and with Odyssey on planet surfaces, than they've spent on designing and implementing gameplay for it. It's not that they don't really have an interest in exploration gameplay anymore, it's that they never really had much interest in it ever.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I just noticed that all the discoveries I made so far just happened and there was no indication that that event ever took place,
and the only way to Gratify oneself is to bookmark the place to look it up later or go there again.

First off, if you're in it for "gratification of one's self" then you're probably playing the wrong game. This game isn't about the end - it's about the journey.

Secondly, it can't "gratify you" by telling you that it's "your discovery" because until such time as you make it back to the carrier / base and sell that data, it is NOT in fact your discovery.

Nobody knew Christopher Columbus had discovered the Caribbean when he landed there. In fact, not even he did. He thought he had landed somewhere in China. He died thinking that.

Nobody knew he had discovered anything until he got back and turned in his charts.

That's how discovery works. It worked that way then, it works that way now, it works that way in this game.