Petition to work on getting van Maanen's Star back under the control of the Sublime Order of van Maanen's Star

Hello
We are the mad monks of the Sublime Order of Van Maanens Star. Please let it be understood that we don’t want your assistance.
we are very happy with our current landlords who are happy to allow us our religious freedoms.
we have an active fleet in game and we even meet up to RP mad monks, not that it takes much role playing. Yes we even have pamphlets that we distribute. Any attempt to change the current arrangement with Hutton will be frowned on, and we start a holy war to defend our religious freedoms, and may even throw bio waste at you.
Your consideration for our religious freedom is much appreciated

Abbot Andy
 

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The only reason VMS has a permit at all is because the ruling religious order wanted their privacy and thus wanted to control access to the system; a scenario which was set up by the Federation on behalf of the GFS hundreds of years ago. It's the only FE2 permit that made the transition across to ED.

If the SOVMS aren't the ruling faction of VMS any more, then the permit should simply evaporate, because without the SOVMS in control, then the system is just like any other system in the Hutt Empire and has no reason for a permit. Or make the permit a requirement for landing on the planet (and put a starport on the planet under permanent SOVMS control) rather than accessing the system.

Unfortunately, the permit system was designed before the lets-change-system-ownership-easily-via-the-BGS mechanism was put in place, and it's too late to do anything about it now.

Basically this ^
 
I gather there's a modifier which makes a permit-locked system harder to flip (but not impossible, obviously, as many have been flipped).

Unfortunately I suspect the modifier still applies after flipping, so it then protects the system from being flipped back to the permit-issuing faction. If so, that needs to be changed, the modifier should only limit influence changes while the permit-holding faction controls the system.
Permit systems were made harder [1] to expand into in release 2.4 after the Alliance got hold of Ross 128, and prohibited as PMF home systems a bit earlier than that.

However I don't believe there's any specific rule once another faction gets in there, or for flipping between its native factions, to make it harder after that point [2].

[1] To the extent that no-one has successfully done so since, to my knowledge. That doesn't necessarily mean "impossible" - there's a very simple way it could have been made harder but not technically impossible.
[2] Sol, Achenar, Alioth and Shinrarta have a complete ban on conflicts or inbound expansion, but this isn't caused by the permit - Colonia and Ratraii have the same ban and no permit requirement.

We have a counter petition as we have been caretakers of it for longer than they have to have control of the permit.
Based on the Black Fleet precedent, https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/5a057eceda59a26bc40b9828 , you would probably need to Retreat them from their other three present systems - and therefore temporarily prevent access to the permit - to gain that joint control.
 
Permit systems were made harder [1] to expand into in release 2.4 after the Alliance got hold of Ross 128, and prohibited as PMF home systems a bit earlier than that.

However I don't believe there's any specific rule once another faction gets in there, or for flipping between its native factions, to make it harder after that point [2].

[1] To the extent that no-one has successfully done so since, to my knowledge. That doesn't necessarily mean "impossible" - there's a very simple way it could have been made harder but not technically impossible.
[2] Sol, Achenar, Alioth and Shinrarta have a complete ban on conflicts or inbound expansion, but this isn't caused by the permit - Colonia and Ratraii have the same ban and no permit requirement.


Based on the Black Fleet precedent, https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/5a057eceda59a26bc40b9828 , you would probably need to Retreat them from their other three present systems - and therefore temporarily prevent access to the permit - to gain that joint control.

player factions can no longer expand into permit locked systems.
 
You don't need FDEV to flip a system.

Its been a while since I've scraped an Eagle out of my Vettes intake ports for good reason. If the cause is just, and your course set... My ships and skills are at your disposal.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOOZDO5KDv4

You don’t. But the cause is unjust, we are the faction currently RPing SOVMS and we like things the way are, Hutton maintain the system leaving us free to carry out our ministrations. Surely we get a say in this?!
 
I suppose if we HAVE To, we could restrict the Sublime order to just VMS, but that would be a drastic response. Wouldn't want to have to deploy the nuclear option.

I'm sure our peaceful coexistence with the Mad Monks will continue shortly.
 
This thread has made me want to actually play that part of the game a bit - to deny the truckers this system, they call monks loonies, but they were set up by people who found it perfectly sane to travel to Hutton Orbital? - and, set up an almost cult like obsession with this ridiculous journey? (for the mug, anyone?)

I'm not sure I can handle that level of hypocrisy.
The hypocrisy of chilling in supercruise for half an hour in a 1 to 1 scale galactic video game, because you have the option to? :unsure:

I've been away from the computer in supercruise for a lot longer than that sometimes, and at the computer too, for that matter.
 
I think the only way to solve this, is to bring VMS as many mugs as we can. If Hutton Orbital has no mugs, and VMS has them all, then VMS will have all the .... I've lost track of what we were trying to do.

I think we are trying to get a Lore Lock on certain systems to stop them being interfered with. Because some Lore is fluent and ongoing and some of it should just be Law.
 
This all sounds like some third party is trying to stir up some poop just to annoy both of you guys?
Absolutely.
we have a great relationship with Hutton and both Hutton and ourselves benefit from this relationship.
we each understand that it is not the others fault and our relationship remains untarnished.
we just want things to remain as they are and we are certain that the OP didn’t intend this out of malice and that they will as
The hypocrisy of chilling in supercruise for half an hour in a 1 to 1 scale galactic video game, because you have the option to? :unsure:

I've been away from the computer in supercruise for a lot longer than that sometimes, and at the computer too, for that matter.
its more like 90 minutes, but each to their own. I have made the pilgrimage many times.
 
Do you have a source for that?

(Or even an example of a non-PMF expanding into a permit locked system any time since the 2.4 release in a situation that a PMF tried and failed?)
Sadly no source that I can find, but it came about after some cheeky chappies tried to enter Sol. Initially Sol got locked down, then they just locked all of the down to expansion. It’s in the patch notes somewhere but I had a quick scan through and couldn’t find it.
but it did mess up a long standing operation we had planned (not Sol), that’s why I remember it.
 
...

its more like 90 minutes, but each to their own. I have made the pilgrimage many times.
Maybe that's how long I was AFK for... :giggle:

I think I've gone there twice, basically just to say I did, but it's been a while. If I want to bother with something, I tend to prefer it to be a bit more of a bother with more noteworthy results, if that makes sense.

🍻
 
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Sadly no source that I can find, but it came about after some cheeky chappies tried to enter Sol. Initially Sol got locked down, then they just locked all of the down to expansion. It’s in the patch notes somewhere but I had a quick scan through and couldn’t find it.
but it did mess up a long standing operation we had planned (not Sol), that’s why I remember it.
Sol is a different sort of lock and a much longer standing one than the changes to permits made in 2.4

It has an expansion-and-conflict lock which prevents any faction (PMF or otherwise) getting in, and prevents conflicts between factions already there.
Colonia and Ratraii out here have the same protection - but no permit.

The specific line you may be thinking of, following the Alliance getting into Ross 128, is
2.4 patch notes said:
Encourage factions to not expand into starsystems that require permits
...which is intriguingly short of an outright prohibition.

A very simple rule such as "expansions into permit systems are a lower priority than expansions by invasion" would be sufficient to also cause the observed effect (no-one has got into a permit system since the 2.4 release) without technically being a complete ban.
 
Maybe that's how long I was AFK for... :giggle:

I think I've gone there twice, basically just to say I did, but it's been a while. If I want to bother with something, I tend to prefer it to be a bit more of a bother with more noteworthy results, if that makes sense.

🍻
Completely agree, for most they either get tricked into it, or they choose to go so they can say they’ve done it.
we go quite often to join the Hutton mug meets, but I’m usually AFK when I do it as it’s not very exciting lol.
 
Sol is a different sort of lock and a much longer standing one than the changes to permits made in 2.4

It has an expansion-and-conflict lock which prevents any faction (PMF or otherwise) getting in, and prevents conflicts between factions already there.
Colonia and Ratraii out here have the same protection - but no permit.

The specific line you may be thinking of, following the Alliance getting into Ross 128, is

...which is intriguingly short of an outright prohibition.

A very simple rule such as "expansions into permit systems are a lower priority than expansions by invasion" would be sufficient to also cause the observed effect (no-one has got into a permit system since the 2.4 release) without technically being a complete ban.
Ah you could be right, but we’ve always taken it to mean that’s not achievable anymore.
 
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