100MI + Hour: Killing skimmers with ships.

"do you have an example"

This is what I'm asking.

Okie Dokie

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...s-with-ships?p=6471913&viewfull=1#post6471913

I guess any elaboration of d8veh's original point, (which is what I was addressing prior to your interjection) would cite examples of anything falling into the "looking for an opportunity to make money and have fun in game"?

There are many example threads of the nuances being considered in this, running right now in the Discussion Forum. I wouldn't want to fall foul of the forum rules without being more specific than that.

If I understand you correctly, and I'm having to make assumptions here, with regards to your comments around outcomes not being designed, I can only agree.
 
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If you think this is just 100 mil an hour that's cute and you're doing it in the wrong place. I found a much better location weeks before DTEA was on to this.

Try 330 mil per hour. I've made 7 billion in the last 2 weeks. Now we can thank a YouTuber trying to get a few extra clicks for bringing it to enough peoples attention that it will be nerfed.

Which youtuber?
 
What's that game, "Papers, please"? Some kind of repetitive lo-res thing where you literally stamp immigration papers... I am told it's fun but have no idea why. Wealth accumulation in ED may be a bit like that except with better graphics and lasers. Many people find repetitive tasks like that deeply relaxing.

Really what's not to like?

Personally that's enough for me and the knowledge that having stocked up future proofs me a little more for rebuy and big ships. 8A fuel scoop? I have two Cutters.

But I'm not a serious hoarder by any means.

Oh as I've stated people find various things fun, the main point I'm trying to point out is that, people generally know 'why' something is fun for them. I might not agree in that it is fun, but that doesn't mean someone can't explain what they find fun. And many times the answer given to 'why' is "because it is" which isn't an answer as i see it.

Take papers please, I can tell you why I play it on occasion and why I find it fun. Its a rather strategic game, and it forces you to pay attention to details, it challenges my focus and attention, I enjoy that, when I do play it on occasion.
It may be repetitive from a certain perspective, i totally agree, no real visual differences, but there's more to it once you get down deeper challenging memory and other abilities.
It isn't for me all the time, because yes, it can feel repetitive, but when I do enjoy it at times, I can tell you why.
 
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sollisb

Banned
Okie Dokie

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...s-with-ships?p=6471913&viewfull=1#post6471913

I guess any elaboration of d8veh's original point, (which is what I was addressing prior to your interjection) would cite examples of anything falling into the "looking for an opportunity to make money and have fun in game"?

There are many example threads of the nuances being considered in this, running right now in the Discussion Forum. I wouldn't want to fall foul of the forum rules without being more specific than that.

If I understand you correctly, and I'm having to make assumptions here, with regards to your comments around outcomes not being designed, I can only agree.

I'm gonna take a wild guess, might be miles off...

because the depth of game play is shallow and repetitive, players seek out more fun things to do, rather than commit to a grind system that is so bad that it lacks a proper reward, and instead, rolls a dice which so unbalanced as to yield more often than not, a reward that leaves the player deflated.

Gotta hand it to FDev.. No one creates frustration better than them.
 
I'm gonna take a wild guess, might be miles off...

because the depth of game play is shallow and repetitive, players seek out more fun things to do, rather than commit to a grind system that is so bad that it lacks a proper reward, and instead, rolls a dice which so unbalanced as to yield more often than not, a reward that leaves the player deflated.

Gotta hand it to FDev.. No one creates frustration better than them.

Not far off at all. +1 ;)

As far as I can classify this behaviour (imho), it spawns from the core player base being utterly committed to the "Elite Institution".

In the absence of fun tasks (even though there are some)...moreover, the presence of squiffy nonsensical outcomes that have been peeled of the design wall in order to systematically solve a systemic problem (which has been caused by sub-standard or outmoded game design in the first instance), that type of player then classifies the design as "not-fit-for-purpose" and seeks out their own fun.

To this type of "institutionalised" gamer, Elite doesn't belong to the designers. The developers are just putting together the latest version of the game they have always been playing for the last 30 years, in line with the brief they are supplied by the current design team. Those players don't have to buy in to ED, they already are...having played the 3 previous incarnations. The current team just need to do the institution justice, as they are "just visiting". Moreover, it would be thoroughly expected by those players that Elite 5 will be designed by people who are currently 10 years old in another 15 years, and they will be expected to operate under the same premise. Bit like anyone who directs an Alien movie.

And that is where the problem arises. With ED being widely regarded as a game which could arguably be evolved over time "until the end of the Universe", (real or rendered by Stellar Forge) the frustration is predominantly, "when are the current lot going to sort out their approach"?

The "Neo-Gamers" who put no value in the tradition or institution of the games history, are simply happy with being provided a platform upon which they can experiment. This is not necessarily a bad thing, or less relevant to the claim of "play your way", however it is diametrically opposed to the interests of the Institutionalised Gamer. Hence the Official Forum flame wars.

IF there is an Elite 5 it will only be as a result of Elite 4 (ED) failing. This is not a doom thing, no one...institutionalised or otherwise, wants that. Most groups (and there are more groups than those two) wish to see ED developed in perpetuity, and there is no reason why that can not happen if you get the cultural systemic factors right, as well as the technical solutionising.

The designers keep going on about "balancing the game", when in reality the game is not balanced, and never will be due to these factors amongst others. If they insist on balancing anything, they should be more focused in balancing the design approach methodology. Or even have a design approach, instead of all this ad hoc nonsense that causes two new problems every time they fix one. Be it breaking common sense, immersion, process or simply The Lore, in a way that can not be justified. Those that say this is impossible need to understand that is absolutely is possible, and it is what is missing.

Technically, the current design approach seems to be efficient in the context of the resources that FD have at their disposal, and slowly developing a higher level of efficacy as the business evolves. Culturally, the current approach couldn't be wronger.

It will get worse before it gets better.

Christmas is coming though.
 
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I'm gonna take a wild guess, might be miles off...

because the depth of game play is shallow and repetitive, players seek out more fun things to do, rather than commit to a grind system that is so bad that it lacks a proper reward, and instead, rolls a dice which so unbalanced as to yield more often than not, a reward that leaves the player deflated.

Gotta hand it to FDev.. No one creates frustration better than them.

This.

Once I got it through my head that Fdev suffers from the double wammy of a) sadistic, rng based grind to cover up the lack of depth in overall gameplay/mechanics, and b) doesn't play their own game enough to know how it's users are playing it and what their goals/ambitions/drives are, I got right down off of my "purist pedastal" and quit judging players for utilizing whatever the current shortcut there is.

If Fdev implemented systems that were reasonable, fun and rewarding, not to mention CONSISTENT, less people would be so keen to pile onto the latest money/material exploit.
 
It was good that someone else was able to put it into words. =p

These things need to happen by consensus.... ;)

This.

Once I got it through my head that Fdev suffers from the double wammy of a) sadistic, rng based grind to cover up the lack of depth in overall gameplay/mechanics, and b) doesn't play their own game enough to know how it's users are playing it and what their goals/ambitions/drives are, I got right down off of my "purist pedastal" and quit judging players for utilizing whatever the current shortcut there is.

If Fdev implemented systems that were reasonable, fun and rewarding, not to mention CONSISTENT, less people would be so keen to pile onto the latest money/material exploit.

At this point, I'm pretty convinced that those charged with the design are Neo-Gamers. Hence many sharing your change of heart. Including me.

Cuban? Snip.
 
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I got right down off of my "purist pedastal" and quit judging players for utilizing whatever the current shortcut there is.

It depends entirely on the particular shortcut being taken I think, some shortcuts are a bit more "egregious" than others.

This one, I don't blame players for leveraging it really, doesn't mean I don't think it's broken tho.
 
It depends entirely on the particular shortcut being taken I think, some shortcuts are a bit more "egregious" than others.

This one, I don't blame players for leveraging it really, doesn't mean I don't think it's broken tho.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bitstorm again.


Allow me to tell a story.

Back in 1985, I was sitting in the school computer room in front of one of the BBC Acorns on a Saturday no less, pottering around in my Cobra, pretending I was Commander Jameson. I think I'd made some decent progress by then, maybe got to Dangerous...about 12 years old. In walked a mate of mine with his sister, I like him, but I adored her. She was a moppet, blonde, green eyes always smiling she knew me and her brother got on.

You know the score for a 12 year old boy. No idea what to say, started pretending I was amazing at Elite and concentrating REALLY hard on the approach to docking.

So anyway, my mate chuckled and handed me a floppy 5 1/4" diskette. "Huh?" I said, going for nonchalant. "It's a cheat disk" he said, load it up and "Bosh!", military lasers, fuel capacity and intergalactic hyperspace are yours for the taking. Now as much as I could see all the other things I could do on a Saturday flash before my eyes, with her standing there looking all pleading and innocent, there was no way on this earth or any other that I would commit to such a flagrant abuse of the rules of the universe.

I laughed it off, ultimately the two of us joking how it was my loss and I was happy with my lot. I got my smile and inferred respect from his sister, never got me a kiss though.

Them's the rules of the real world.

I'm not 12 years old anymore.
 
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Allow me to tell a story.

Back in 1985, I was sitting in the school computer room in front of one of the BBC Acorns on a Saturday no less, pottering around in my Cobra, pretending I was Commander Jameson. I think I'd made some decent progress by then, maybe got to Dangerous...about 12 years old. In walked a mate of mine with his sister, I like him, but I adored her. She was a moppet, blonde, green eyes always smiling she knew me and her brother got on.

You know the score for a 12 year old boy. No idea what to say, started pretending I was amazing at Elite and concentrating REALLY hard on the approach to docking.

So anyway, my mate chuckled and handed me a floppy 5 1/4" diskette. "Huh?" I said, going for nonchalant. "It's a cheat disk" he said, load it up and "Bosh!", military lasers, fuel capacity and intergalactic hyperspace are yours for the taking. Now as much as I could see all the other things I could do on a Saturday flash before my eyes, with her standing there looking all pleading and innocent, there was no way on this earth or any other that I would commit to such a flagrant abuse of the rules of the universe.

I laughed it off, ultimately the two of us joking how it was my loss and I was happy with my lot. I got my smile and inferred respect from his sister, never got me a kiss though.

Them's the rules of the real world.

I'm not 12 years old anymore.

tee hee, sn,ig,ger.....You said floppy 5 1/4''
no wonder you didn't get that kiss :-D
 


Allow me to tell a story.

Back in 1985, I was sitting in the school computer room in front of one of the BBC Acorns on a Saturday no less, pottering around in my Cobra, pretending I was Commander Jameson. I think I'd made some decent progress by then, maybe got to Dangerous...about 12 years old. In walked a mate of mine with his sister, I like him, but I adored her. She was a moppet, blonde, green eyes always smiling she knew me and her brother got on.

You know the score for a 12 year old boy. No idea what to say, started pretending I was amazing at Elite and concentrating REALLY hard on the approach to docking.

So anyway, my mate chuckled and handed me a floppy 5 1/4" diskette. "Huh?" I said, going for nonchalant. "It's a cheat disk" he said, load it up and "Bosh!", military lasers, fuel capacity and intergalactic hyperspace are yours for the taking. Now as much as I could see all the other things I could do on a Saturday flash before my eyes, with her standing there looking all pleading and innocent, there was no way on this earth or any other that I would commit to such a flagrant abuse of the rules of the universe.

I laughed it off, ultimately the two of us joking how it was my loss and I was happy with my lot. I got my smile and inferred respect from his sister, never got me a kiss though.

Them's the rules of the real world.

I'm not 12 years old anymore.

My take away is that you were kind of a late bloomer when it comes to girls.
 
She probably just read the post where I accidentally substituted the G for the letter P in your name yesterday.

She says in that instance, her chuckling was a little forced...although went on to enquire if anyone "accidentally" referred to you as "Purple Barron".

Worryingly she was always smiling.
 
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Why not just ask FD for a credit machine at every trade broker location that adds credits to your account in billions per hour when you enter 1234? Sounds just as much fun and you don't have to press any keys (apart from the first four numbers). [money]
 
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