2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Deadspin]

Bright idea : they make THEIR game with OUR money and claim that they LISTEN TO the community at Gamescon.
Who are you exactly ? Sandro's brother in law ?

Maybe because most of us aren't children

So lets get something straight. The fact that you paid for this game doesn't mean that you get to click a check box on a poll and decide FDevs development strategy for them.

They have listened to the player base on a lot of things but, if you haven't noticed, it's usually been in the area of compromise on features that players have actively exploited to cause trauma to the considerably weak psyches of other players. The ability to fast-travel your ship from A to B for a reasonable fee is not yet, however, one of those things.

You sure act like a bunch of children if this thread is anything to go by (And that's a generally directed sentiment, not at any one of you in particular).

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

419 pages.

200 since I last commented and the community still can't agree.

How about we let FDev make their game and just play it like good little boys and girls are supposed to do.

if we did that then we go back to the balance of the game at launch with pennies for ship kills, almost insta death if you hit the space station and high fuel and repair costs... along with very expensive vulture and FDL

with that in mind, over all....... Sure, that gets my vote... just dont pick and choose what is valid complaining over whining. Historically FD have released as they saw fit then bowed to pressure to moaning, this is just the other way around.

 

[Deadspin]

Another thing I believe I should point out is that 250 or so players isn't "the community", it's a minority.

 

[fantasmic]

419 pages.

200 since I last commented and the community still can't agree.

How about we let FDev make their game and just play it like good little boys and girls are supposed to do.

Say now, that's dangerous thinking. You'd best stick to your work.

 

[Luniticisi]

Let's for a moment put aside the question what is an exploit and what constitutes a legitimate use of instant ship transfer. Let's just say anything goes, everything is legitimate, because most likely that is precisely how it will be anyway.

So it the fastest and 100% legitimate way to travel around in, say, an FDL is now to fly in an empty Asp with max upgraded 5A FSD (and maybe fuel scoop), then teleport the FDL to you. If you want to move about the bubble, anyone would cripple themselves by actually flying in the FDL and not in the Asp.

-> New travelling meta game: use fast taxi, teleport any other ship to the destination.

So you have found a good Sothis-style long range smuggling route. So you stack as many of these missions as you can. More cargo than would fit in the Asp, so let's take a Python, fill it to the brim with smuggling mission cargo. Deliver the goods, then whereever you are at the last destination, summon your taxi, fly the taxi rapidly to your smuggling hub, summon the Python.

-> New long range smuggling meta: fly the route back in a taxi, teleport hauling ship after your.

So you have found a good freeform trade route. A system is selling Imperial Slaves for fantastically low prices, and another system 80Ly away pays just so good. You go all in - trade Cutter, minimal shields, maximum cargo racks. Then you check what goods you bring with you on the return trip, and it turns out there is nothing too profitable for that leg of the journey. But hey! What if you made the trip back in just 2 jumps in your taxi, then summoned the Cutter? The saving on time is greater than any profit you get by hauling back, say, semiconductors, because every minute shaved off goes into moving more of these profitable slaves!

-> New trade meta: haul most cr/t cargo to destination, fly back in taxi, summon freighter.

These are just some of the obvious cases. A few weeks down the line and people will likely have discovered new uses for instantaneous ship transfer no one has anticipated. Almost every aspect of the game will be touched by it in one way or another.

And yes, it is technically optional, you could still travel in the FDL, you could still fly 200Ly back to the smuggling base in the Python, you could still move semiconductors on the trade return trip. But what before 2.2 was just natural now is a patently sub-par style of gameplay. You will intentionally cripple yourself by not employing the new ship teleportation meta.

And what a meta it is. Does no one of the people favouring instantaneous transfer see how massively awkward this will be once you realize for anything that requires travelling, you are better of with summon-switch-taxi-summon-switch? People say how annoying and awkward it is to use throwaway taxis to move their ships about without alway leaving another ship behind - it'll be just as awkward, just now you will feel compelled to do it all the time, everywhere, not just once in a while to park a few ships in a new location.

All dependent on nearby stations having shipyards --

 

[Deadspin]

if we did that then we go back to the balance of the game at launch with pennies for ship kills, almost insta death if you hit the space station and high fuel and repair costs... along with very expensive vulture and FDL

with that in mind, over all....... Sure, that gets my vote... just dont pick and choose what is valid complaining over whining. Historically FD have released as they saw fit then bowed to pressure to moaning, this is just the other way around.

The thing is, the "community" agreed and rallied behind those changes. C'mon now, don't make me spell this out every time.

 

[Miklos Atreides]

419 pages.

200 since I last commented and the community still can't agree.

How about we let FDev make their game and just play it like good little boys and girls are supposed to do.

Sorry but I am to disagree.
I am that ugly heretic bad boy that isn't that lovely brain-dead child you would like to have.
I tought my children that the head is a curious thing. You can do more with it than just open the mouth and put food in.

The discussion is necessary and good and many of us will measure FD against the conclustion they will take from theses type of discussions.

Regards, Miklos

 

[Bomba Luigi]

2.1 "The Engineers" - FD add a feature that takes a long time/grind to benefit from .. forum lose their turnips "This takes too much time .. I don't have the time ..blah blah"

2.2 "Guardians" - FD add a feature that will be instantaneous - Forum lose their turnips "This is too quick .. things in Elite should take time!!"

[Speculation]

2.3 "The Commanders" FD ... (sod it) ... Forum lose their Turnips.

Its really not diffrent, as the people who are for instant ship transfer are using the same argument as people who where against engineers taking time (for the most part). Same kind of players still want the same kind of stuff, just that the player base is made of people with very diffrent Ideas of what is good.

Tough given that "please make it easier/quicker" tends to be heard and the oppsite more likley not it probably shows which one FD designs the Game for.

 

[Yaffle]

Instant ship transfer:
Source station analyses the ship in question, then breaks it down and adds part to special part reserve. Target station then assembles ship per source stations specs from its parts reserve. Near instantaneous transfer of ship possible and explainable via lore.

A good try - but how can it do that on engineers modules when they cannot be duplicated, even by the engineer?
Why do some stations not sell all ships? Surely De Lacy would have one reference ship and use that?

etc.

It is, as others have said, best just not to think about it or try to justify it in game terms. It's a mechanic FD wants to get people to combat zones faster, it has nothing to do with the background of the game at all, that is secondary to the direction of the game.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The thing is, the "community" agreed and rallied behind those changes. C'mon now, don't make me spell this out every time.

say what? you mean an 80% against vote for magic is not the community agreeing... and as i hinted at in my post.... in general i LIKED the initial balance which was in the game in 1.0 elite..... (or was it 0.8gamma i cant remember the version numbers before release)

my point is you cant tell those complaining to shut up and trust FD and play their game on 1 hand, and then complain on the other the moment there is something you personally do not like!.

i agree with FD on some points, disagree on others but never tell other people that they should not stand up if they feel the game is about to be broken by something new.

I respect your view... IF you stuck to it, but the fact that iirc you yourself do not and have done your own fair share of complaining on other topics makes you seen a bit hypocritical.

 

[Winterwalker]

I know it will never happen, but I dream of big NPC ships with long jump range that are transporting the ships to the star port you want them. It would be a common sport for many to track them and try to shoot them down... they should have at least 10 small F-63 as defense force (all 10 out together of cause)

If given the choice I also like to think of capital class transporter ships, certainly over long range autopilot, though I like the idea of courier NPC's, hired by the company to deliver your ship for you. I know there's argument that fighter ships wouldn't manage some jumps but I really think it's asking too much of Frontier to model the A to B with too much vigour, and not necessary. We might not even see a Transporter ship (would be great of course, given time and development money, dream city), we might not see our NPC couriered ship leave or arrive at the station, but I really don't think it matters. All that matters to me is, that however the system goes in, it doesn't accidentally devalue the awesome 3D space of the virtual galaxy.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Why do some stations not sell all ships?

Gameplay decision in order to make the bubble look less "uniform" (funny enough, it works and players got used to it .. also to silly discounts limited to LYR space, which created exactly one system with a discounted Cutter).
You can't even use "today's" methods to have any car configured online and shipped to your dealership in a matter of weeks.

Only truely true explanation for that is "gameplay".

And it's also a placeholder for the huge Shipyards from the Design Documents, where you'd see your ship built and which would be the hubs and only sources to buy ships.
Maybe one day they implement that, since buying ships like it currently is lacks the "shopping queen" appeal of the other solution.

 

[Hexcaliber]

Let's for a moment put aside the question what is an exploit and what constitutes a legitimate use of instant ship transfer. Let's just say anything goes, everything is legitimate, because most likely that is precisely how it will be anyway.

SNIP

Only empty ships can be stored at stations, therefore only empty ships can be transferred to destination.

 

[[VR] Marrs]

But surely if the ASP is the best all round ship for jumping around then people are already doing that anyway. So whats the difference.

If you want to get from point A to point B and you know the quickest way of getting there is the ASP then nothing has changed. The only difference I see therefore is that when you get to your destination you transfer your ship rather than buying a new one.

And if there isn't a ship yard at your destination you can't transfer your ship anyway.

In other words nothing really changes from what it is now.

If nothing changes, then what's the point of it? What's wrong with people carrying on doing exactly what you said?

This boils down to people asking for a way to consolidate their ships in one place and FD have in their wisdom given us a solution to a different problem. I still think there may be more to this than they are saying at the moment. I suspect short-lived real-time events may be coming. I can't think of another reason they would be so adamant about implementing a feature with such a flimsy justification.

 

[MyHammer]

Another thing I believe I should point out is that 250 or so players isn't "the community", it's a minority.

Its already roughly about 1.500 who wants some sort of delay. That may not be the community in whole but its a large number, hard to ignore. And there would be maybe even more if they would get informed about all the consequences of this bad idea of insta travel.

 

[Leo Sagan]

So lets get something straight.

Ah, a definitive answer at last. Given in a manly voice. Now I'm (almost) impressed.

You sure act like a bunch of children

Calling me a "child" will definitely solve this controversy ... Congratulations, you won the Internet.

 

[orfeboy]

Let's for a moment put aside the question what is an exploit and what constitutes a legitimate use of instant ship transfer. Let's just say anything goes, everything is legitimate, because most likely that is precisely how it will be anyway.

So it the fastest and 100% legitimate way to travel around in, say, an FDL is now to fly in an empty Asp with max upgraded 5A FSD (and maybe fuel scoop), then teleport the FDL to you. If you want to move about the bubble, anyone would cripple themselves by actually flying in the FDL and not in the Asp.

-> New travelling meta game: use fast taxi, teleport any other ship to the destination.

So you have found a good Sothis-style long range smuggling route. So you stack as many of these missions as you can. More cargo than would fit in the Asp, so let's take a Python, fill it to the brim with smuggling mission cargo. Deliver the goods, then whereever you are at the last destination, summon your taxi, fly the taxi rapidly to your smuggling hub, summon the Python.

-> New long range smuggling meta: fly the route back in a taxi, teleport hauling ship after your.

So you have found a good freeform trade route. A system is selling Imperial Slaves for fantastically low prices, and another system 80Ly away pays just so good. You go all in - trade Cutter, minimal shields, maximum cargo racks. Then you check what goods you bring with you on the return trip, and it turns out there is nothing too profitable for that leg of the journey. But hey! What if you made the trip back in just 2 jumps in your taxi, then summoned the Cutter? The saving on time is greater than any profit you get by hauling back, say, semiconductors, because every minute shaved off goes into moving more of these profitable slaves!

-> New trade meta: haul most cr/t cargo to destination, fly back in taxi, summon freighter.

These are just some of the obvious cases. A few weeks down the line and people will likely have discovered new uses for instantaneous ship transfer no one has anticipated. Almost every aspect of the game will be touched by it in one way or another.

And yes, it is technically optional, you could still travel in the FDL, you could still fly 200Ly back to the smuggling base in the Python, you could still move semiconductors on the trade return trip. But what before 2.2 was just natural now is a patently sub-par style of gameplay. You will intentionally cripple yourself by not employing the new ship teleportation meta.

And what a meta it is. Does no one of the people favouring instantaneous transfer see how massively awkward this will be once you realize for anything that requires travelling, you are better of with summon-switch-taxi-summon-switch? People say how annoying and awkward it is to use throwaway taxis to move their ships about without alway leaving another ship behind - it'll be just as awkward, just now you will feel compelled to do it all the time, everywhere, not just once in a while to park a few ships in a new location.

Excellent post!

+1

 

[Ozram]

So lets get something straight. The fact that you paid for this game doesn't mean that you get to click a check box on a poll and decide FDevs development strategy for them.

They have listened to the player base on a lot of things but, if you haven't noticed, it's usually been in the area of compromise on features that players have actively exploited to cause trauma to the considerably weak psyches of other players. The ability to fast-travel your ship from A to B for a reasonable fee is not yet, however, one of those things.

You sure act like a bunch of children if this thread is anything to go by (And that's a generally directed sentiment, not at any one of you in particular).

Stop please. You are embarrassing yourself. That's not a high horse you are on, it's a rocking chair unicorn.
If you'd like to contribute your opinion on the topic do so, but your opinion of posters is irrelevant. As they say, play the ball, not the player.

 

[Mephane]

All dependent on nearby stations having shipyards --

Which will factor into trade route considerations. Maybe a route with the slightly lower cr/ton is still more cr/hour because it allows ship summoning while the former does not. So any trader who wants to improve their cr/hour rate must at all times gauge old-school trading with one-way-and-summon trading. Opportunity cost can be a *****.

 

[Weps]

Another thing I believe I should point out is that 250 or so players isn't "the community", it's a minority.

This thread got over 2000 votes buddy.

PS: can someone link the thread on Steam where there was also a vote going?

What was the turnout on the second Reddit poll, a few hunderd? I think there the insta-people won the vote, but maybe we should link that as well for fairness.