2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Marc_Hicks]

I do think there will be an impact, but the conclusions I draw are much different than yours.

I doubt players will pay 100mil+ regularly to push a corvette, or 60mil to push a FDL around the bubble constantly. Every player has a different balance between how much they are willing to spend versus how much time they will save. I reckon that the amount of credits players are willing to spend to fast-travel will be relatively low for instant transport. Only time will tell.


Immersion is the moment-to moment flow of the game. Verisimilitude is the "believable-ness" of the game world by the rules it sets for itself. The difference is Vermissilitude, not immersion. I am aware.


I am merely pointing out that game mechanics encourage specific behavior from players. Attaching a credit cost to ship travel encourages players not to use ship travel and balance the cost of travel versus the value of the time they will save.



My point is: functionally, hitting the self-destruct and instant-ship travel are the same on the mechanical level. (Although very different fluff-wise.) Self-destructing and re-spawning doesn't bother most players now, so why---ah this thread has been down that road before and it's come down to verisimilitude and we're chasing our tails.



Um, what?



The core gameplay is finding and planning the good trade routes, mining asteroids while fighting off pirates, shooting down high-value NPC bounties, planning a long voyage to explore distant worlds, and refueling commanders stuck in the black.

It's not backtracking to the same system just to get the ship that I need to do one of the above.
------
Look, point is: even WITH instant travel, commanders are still encouraged to plan ahead and play the type-1 or old-fashioned way. But now they just have the option and a reason to trick out a fun eagle or viper, or actually use the FDL they've put upwards of 60million into on occasion. That's a good thing. Putting a timer on ship-transfer kinda destroys the point of the mechanic.

But, you know, just blame the filthy casuals I guess.

Speak for yourself. I am a casual who opposes instant transportation, so clearly this isn't a "casual vs hardcore" argument. The majority of voters want the time saving benefits of ship transportation, they just don't want to be limitless/instantaneous-as it breaks immersion and gameplay. So much of your argument is invalidated given that almost nobody here opposes ship transportation.

 

[MarcusKross]

...and gold selling, don't forget the dreaded devil of GOLD SELLING!

Very Hungry.

Need Fambry.

Cheap credit you much buy no?


Seriously tho who will ever buy credits in a game which has zero money sinks and where you can mode switch exploit to stack 20 long range 'smuggling' missions to earn the credit to get you inside the most expensive ships in 2 days?

 

[Shar]

True, but it's ultimately moot, since FD is clearly doing that to attract new players...

Yes they will need them to replace the one's there about to loose. people like me that have dropped 500+ on the game and will buy everything and anything for years to come, one dedicated long term player is worth ten transients in financial terms. Same as one David B with his grand vision is worth ten employees that will come and go.

 

[warbaby2]

I still think everyone is looking at this the wrong way. If they made ship transfer a player driven mission then that would bring the community closer together. We would have dedicated trucker hauling ships all over the Galaxy. And it would not break in game immersion. So I advocate that FDev should let the player haul ships as a mission that other players pay for.

Which would be the preferred method... if the game was still true to it's original design philosophy.

 

[Soon(TM)]

Maybe it can be balanced with price, that seems to be the only thing that could stop the exploitation.

Maybe 100,000 credits for every 10ly ?

Of course if it's too expensive nobody will use it and it will have been a waste of dev time

*Cough* power play

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

I feel that it should not be about the credits it should be about believability if player had to haul the ships and other player had to make open contracts for their ships to be transferred it would make the game feel more true to life. And isn't that why we all play elite dangerous. To feel what it would be like to live in space. And do what a spacefaring commander would do.

 

[Rocky-451]

Not so much, there's ONLY ONE option for Instant transport this means that 76% would not want ship transportation to be instant. from the values might have some variation but it's UTERLY MAJOR the ones AGAINST it...

For example i voted on the:
Transfer should take a small fraction of the time it would take manually. 24.40%
Transfer should take a large fraction of the time it would take manually. 23.63%

and not on the:

Transfer should take at least as long as it would take manually. 27.51%

Thanks for letting us know how the non-instant options get inflated by people voting for more than one of them.

 

[Makeitrain09]

well.... ship transfer is coming looks like its going to be instant too regardless of this poll. Don't think Fdevs are going to take the time out to figure out how to calculate ship(outfit and jump range varies)*time*distant*cost. that sounds like too much work when it can just be instant. So the choice will be up to you. if you like it use it. if you dont like it dont use it. i personally dont have anything against it. i'll still have to travel the distance in one ship so lots of immersion there...

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

Thanks for letting us know how the non-instant options get inflated by people voting for more than one of them.

And its entirely possible the single instant transfer option is inflated as well. Even if not, only getting 1/4 of votes shows the majority does not want an instant transfer.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

well.... ship transfer is coming looks like its going to be instant too regardless of this poll. Don't think Fdevs are going to take the time out to figure out how to calculate ship(outfit and jump range varies)*time*distant*cost. that sounds like too much work when it can just be instant. So the choice will be up to you. if you like it use it. if you dont like it dont use it. i personally dont have anything against it. i'll still have to travel the distance in one ship so lots of immersion there...

I think it's a bit too late to change course now but once 2.2 drops I think this thread will explode along with many other threads. The majority of players don't want instant and won't give up on changing it until some compromise is made. If FD sticks to its guns and doesn't compromise they may well lose lots of players.

 

[Rocky-451]

And its entirely possible the single instant transfer option is inflated as well. Even if not, only getting 1/4 of votes shows the majority does not want an instant transfer.

Except that I've already addressed that in my post. The majority doesn't want a short delay. The majority doesn't want a long delay.

 

[Shar]

well.... ship transfer is coming looks like its going to be instant too regardless of this poll. Don't think Fdevs are going to take the time out to figure out how to calculate ship(outfit and jump range varies)*time*distant*cost. that sounds like too much work when it can just be instant. So the choice will be up to you. if you like it use it. if you dont like it dont use it. i personally dont have anything against it. i'll still have to travel the distance in one ship so lots of immersion there...

Yes too much work to keep exploits out of the game, just shut down the server it's just too much work. what a sad point of view.

 

[CMDR_COM_TRUISE]

I feel that it should not be about the credits it should be about believability if player had to haul the ships and other player had to make open contracts for their ships to be transferred it would make the game feel more true to life. And isn't that why we all play elite dangerous. To feel what it would be like to live in space. And do what a spacefaring commander would do.

+ 1 first person eve

 

[MarcusKross]

I still think everyone is looking at this the wrong way. If they made ship transfer a player driven mission then that would bring the community closer together. We would have dedicated trucker hauling ships all over the Galaxy. And it would not break in game immersion. So I advocate that FDev should let the player haul ships as a mission that other players pay for.
I feel it would be a win win for the game.

Is this a great idea? Yes.

Would it spawn an entire new group or several groups of people dedicated to hauling Cmdr ships from here to there like how Fuel rats bring fuel? Oh yeah.

Would it be great fun to the people who are interested in the activity also useful to the community as a whole? Absolutely.

Will Frontier EVER implement similar or parallel ideas like this which will elevate the game and bring new heights to quality of gameplay?

Not a chance in hell.

 

[Sans Daring]

haha!

Basicaly what Fdev is doing is a Kick in itself nuts By doing this they are DEPRECIATING the VALUE of its SHIPS. BECAUSE people WILL NOT GET ATTACHED TO ITS SHIPS.

It's an easily over-looked point. It does devalue ships. Ships are, as they said in talking about this issue at Gamescon, an identity in themselves with the player. As soon as swap and mix becomes easy, with no immersive value in favour of game expediency, the ship loses its value. Not simply because its less likely to have the hours of use flying point to point to point, but because it becomes detached from the breadth of the universe that's been created. Elite feels big for travelling between the stars, sometimes for loooong periods. Soon as there's an object, your object, that defies that, the universe becomes so much smaller.

As was said earlier, so eloquently, the debate divides people into those following the original vision to those who would like Elite to be something other than what it was sold as. That division does, as has also been said, seem to indicate a split in the FDev ideology. The game needs to go in one direction or another.

If people think this vent-a-page thread seems meaningless, or trivial, it's not for this reason. People who have spent a couple of years playing this game, looking to be with it for the long haul are seriously questioning whether Elite is changing direction, and it's a direction they feel takes their investment away.

And that's the sad thing. This isn't a quibble about game mechanics such as Engineers with a "game is unplayable - I'm gone" tag. It's people very worried whether this is an indicator that Elite is either losing its way or changing its way... it's a real shame as a feature that sounded exciting has overhshadowed the enthusiasm to 2.2 (which otherwise is rather exciting and in-keeping with past ideologies).

 

[Khelder]

He's got this complex solution stuck in his head now and can't see the simple one that is pretty much already implemented in the game.
You don't need to know where the the ship is at any point in time because it is either; at the start, in transit, or at the destination.
You don't need an arrival time, you just need a timer.

This can all be achieved with two transactions:

1. Request Ship Transfer - reduce credits, move ship to in transit, add transaction timer (just like a fine)
2. Receive Ship - collect ship (just like a bounty)

Job done.

Agreed. The solution to this is really simple and really just tacks a bit on to what is already there.

Live-tracking your ship (which I'm guessing is what he's hung up on?) would be a different story. But that's not necessary. The only other potential load-issue would be if real route planning was involved. While that may be nice, it's not strictly necessary either.

 

[MarcusKross]

I feel that it should not be about the credits it should be about believability if player had to haul the ships and other player had to make open contracts for their ships to be transferred it would make the game feel more true to life. And isn't that why we all play elite dangerous. To feel what it would be like to live in space. And do what a spacefaring commander would do.

My suspension of disbelief kicked the bucket the moment i realized ship transfers will be unshackled and instantaneous.

 

[Moonax IRL]

It's an easily over-looked point. It does devalue ships. Ships are, as they said in talking about this issue at Gamescon, an identity in themselves with the player. As soon as swap and mix becomes easy, with no immersive value in favour of game expediency, the ship loses its value. Not simply because its less likely to have the hours of use flying point to point to point, but because it becomes detached from the breadth of the universe that's been created. Elite feels big for travelling between the stars, sometimes for loooong periods. Soon as there's an object, your object, that defies that, the universe becomes so much smaller.

As was said earlier, so eloquently, the debate divides people into those following the original vision to those who would like Elite to be something other than what it was sold as. That division does, as has also been said, seem to indicate a split in the FDev ideology. The game needs to go in one direction or another.

If people think this vent-a-page thread seems meaningless, or trivial, it's not for this reason. People who have spent a couple of years playing this game, looking to be with it for the long haul are seriously questioning whether Elite is changing direction, and it's a direction they feel takes their investment away.

And that's the sad thing. This isn't a quibble about game mechanics such as Engineers with a "game is unplayable - I'm gone" tag. It's people very worried whether this is an indicator that Elite is either losing its way or changing its way... it's a real shame as a feature that sounded exciting has overhshadowed the enthusiasm to 2.2 (which otherwise is rather exciting and in-keeping with past ideologies).

FD have a habit of shooting themselves in the foot just before they cross the finishing line on every update resulting in a PR mess, this instant ship transportation idea is a case in point. Whomever came up with this ludicrous idea must have left their brain outside the room on the day in question as it can only be described as a brain fart of the highest order.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

Except that I've already addressed that in my post. The majority doesn't want a short delay. The majority doesn't want a long delay.

Your statements make no logical sense between the 2 options. Unless you think the majority wants a medium delay.

 

[Sans Daring]

I doubt players will pay 100mil+ regularly to push a corvette, or 60mil to push a FDL around the bubble constantly. Every player has a different balance between how much they are willing to spend versus how much time they will save. I reckon that the amount of credits players are willing to spend to fast-travel will be relatively low for instant transport. Only time will tell.

The suggestion so far in the Gamescon stream and perpetuated in the newsletter is this is created intentionally to make movement easy, not difficult. The cost, as it stands, is alluded to be low, not high.

Immersion is the moment-to moment flow of the game. Verisimilitude is the "believable-ness" of the game world by the rules it sets for itself. The difference is Vermissilitude, not immersion. I am aware.

The games truth, or as you say, verisimilitude, is what generates the immersion. If you believe in the games truth, immersion is generated. If that truth is broken, if aspects don't align with the established verisimilitude, the immersion is lost. I would say this is both about verisimilitude and immersion; it is an implementation that breaks the game's truth, and in its moment, it will, I believe, break the immersion. The ship is hijacked by the mechanic, not the world. It becomes a game piece rather than a living breathing part of the user's world. I think its both, but yes, I agree, I think verisimilitude is probably more what we argue as being the issue we're largely at odds with.

The core gameplay is finding and planning the good trade routes, mining asteroids while fighting off pirates, shooting down high-value NPC bounties, planning a long voyage to explore distant worlds, and refueling commanders stuck in the black.

It's not backtracking to the same system just to get the ship that I need to do one of the above.

If that is the only route that actually plays to the game's verisimilitude then yes, it is. If there are other routes that do, then no it isn't. So far there isn't anything that fits the game's verisimilitude and allows a different route UNLESS they implement a change in this new implementation.

Look, point is: even WITH instant travel, commanders are still encouraged to plan ahead and play the type-1 or old-fashioned way. But now they just have the option and a reason to trick out a fun eagle or viper, or actually use the FDL they've put upwards of 60million into on occasion. That's a good thing. Putting a timer on ship-transfer kinda destroys the point of the mechanic.

But, you know, just blame the filthy casuals I guess.

How does the timer destroy a mechanic, especially if you acknowledge commanders plan ahead? If you screw up in a high res zone and get a dormant 7 day bounty, no one says "that's so unfair, that's my main hunting ground! I can't really go there for days now!" That's the nature of the world. It's near Real-Time (but not quiet, obviously). We all plan ahead, and the game is filled with points we have to be patient. Be it unlocking Engineers, bounties to expire, distances to travel... this is only more of the same. It's depicted as if the game was always fast and suddenly people are asking it to be slowed up.

And to confirm - I'm a casual. In fact, I've been here the last two days and barely in Elite lol. I do not consider myself hardcore. I do have a fascination in video-games (and a little industry experience), but I'm not hardcore. I'm just keen the vision the game set out is maintained

 

[CTCParadox]

My suspension of disbelief kicked the bucket the moment i realized ship transfers will be unshackled and instantaneous.

My suspension of disbelief has been gone ever since PowerPlay, synthesis, mats vs. commodities, sensor module weights, etc.

CMDR CTCParadox