2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[OriginalBadBoy]

Now you are just trolling. That would be the Ironman Mode (that still hasn't arrived). Of course we can't have save games in an online multiplayer game, just as we can't have pause buttons. But we can have spawn points. Those can be justified, and some space MMOs like EVE have a good grasp on that. But that doesn't mean that any other insta-mechanic should be allowed in the game. Braben sold us realism, but if the product we were sold is being changed away from that so far it invokes disbelief, then there is a problem. Which is what we are largely discussing here.

S

Of course we already have Ironman .. Its called going into the menu and deleting your commander.

And we do have a 'save' game, its on the database!

Anyway I am outta here .. way too late ...It seems to me there are lots of people here trying to justify their position by anyway necessary. But of course I am a simple troll so what would I know.

 

[sabujo]

I am really excited for ship transfer, but I can't help to classify the instant-summoning a mistake that does not contribute nicely to the suspension of disbelief.
This upcoming patch seems nice, but Frontier is taking away some core values out of the game by introducing lazy mechanics that started since Horizons debut (weighless materials, insta-ship transfer, drone fighters...).

 

[Shar]

Of course we already have Ironman .. Its called going into the menu and deleting your commander.

And we do have a 'save' game, its on the database!

Anyway I am outta here .. way too late ...It seems to me there are lots of people here trying to justify their position by anyway necessary. But of course I am a simple troll so what would I know.

Chill we know your not a troll, this debate has people frustrated and saying things they don,t mean.

The next shift has arrived go rest.

 

[Mohrgan]

But that's not a compromise: That's the extreme other end-member. A compromise would be a time delay of some sort, and/or a price tag depending on distance and size/type of ship transported.

The compromise I'm referring to is the compromise to the 'one to one realism' that paying a player on NPC to transport a ship to a new location. If we can accept a cap to our flight speed, in space. If we can accept instantly re-spawning at the station we last docked at, with an exact replica of the destroyed ship. If we can accept traveling faster than light at all, I'm certain we can accept instantaneous ship transfer.

Once we go down the road to a token delay, it's all just a farcical act to pacify semi-purists. I definitely don;t see a need for that.

 

[Khelder]

CQC did not attract masses of new pew pew players, Arena did not attract masses of new pew pew players if this is partially a third attempt to get that crowd i thing your sadly mistaken there are and always will be games better at doing that because thats what they are designed for, Elite need to play to it's strengths not dismantle them.

You can not be all thing to all people the sooner you realize that the sooner these updates will get less controversial.

Play to its strengths. That is such a good point. There are certain elements of gameplay in Elite that are far from instant-action. Why can't Elite be proud of and consistent with these things?

Your comment suddenly made me remember an old interview with David Braben I saw a while back. It was an old interview. Talking about the original Elite. One of the points I loved was that he and Ian had a vision of a game that could be played for weeks, if not forever. It was sooo unlike every other game of that time. No score. No "lives". No levels. No path from one end to the other. It was so different that the idea was passed on by pretty much every game studio they pitched to. It was only lucky that Acornsoft saw the potential in it and worked with them.

The concept they had for the original Elite wasn't changed back then. They didn't add scores. They didn't add levels. They stuck to their vision and came up with the gem that we know today.

 

[Moonax IRL]

I`m going back to Felicity for a refund now I`ve got my new instantaneous 65,000ly jump drive [up]

 

[lysan]

Fair enough ... Getting late time for bed.

100% realistic does not mean fun.

Agree, the sweet spot are somewhere in between. ^

anyway, yes its late and I'm sure this topic will still be here tomorrow.

 

[Frambitam]

Agree, the sweet spot are somewhere in between. ^

anyway, yes its late and I'm sure this topic will still be here tomorrow.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/16/2b/27/162b2782cd45db089d6cbd263f2c8489.jpg

A picture of a puppy is exactly what this thread needed right now, thanks!

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Well Day three, I cant believe this is over 5000 Posts and i have never seen a reaction like this to any game feature before, i think that in itself should inform the devs that something has gone wrong here.

Sandy think about it do you really believe people are going to wake up some time in October and think to themselves "Wow i an going to buy elite now because i can transfer ships instantly" This is not guaranteed to help your bottom line and could well damage the game.

CQC did not attract masses of new pew pew players, Arena did not attract masses of new pew pew players if this is partially a third attempt to get that crowd i thing your sadly mistaken there are and always will be games better at doing that because thats what they are designed for, Elite need to play to it's strengths not dismantle them.

You can not be all thing to all people the sooner you realize that the sooner these updates will get less controversial.

As a footnote, i would like to congratulate you on the rest of 2.2 and the game in general, it is an amazing and unique game.

Yeah thats part of the truth, I myself like the CQC/arena , but i think it has very little to offer as a game on itself. Look the game has 4 kind of maps wich have 3 game modes / DM,TDM,and CTF.

If you ever wanted to make arena a good selling game on its on it should have more "not generic" features on it, i mean these game modes are good , but having more game modes , and more diversity of layouts, would have helped the game imensely...

But the real nail in the coffin of CQC is the match making... if you want to have a game with your friends it's a night mare, 10-20 minutes to setup a game, when any other Multiplayer game had better solutions for it (SINCE 1995!!!!!), I mean options in this area are just gigantic one actual good option would be the so famous ranked/unranked system... where we could actualy had a matchmaking for ranked matches , and on the unranked we could just have a P2P or even player host for when people actualy want to play by themselves... this would be terrific good.

-/-/-/

As for the new "feature" of insta transportation, my rage with it is not the transportation by itself, but that they break the glass layer beetwen my ship cockpit and the void.

I mean this is the mean feature that will bring every other BAD ,CARTOONISH,ARCADEISH feature into the game , because they already passed this threshold of tolerance...

I mean, whats next? Cloning Engineered modules? Fast Travel to other ships(I.e. Jumpgate beetween Jaques and SOL)?

All these "ideas" can be used in the pretex , "make the game funnier" and " let people enjoy the whole game" theory...

So i have a question WHERE is the THRESHOLD?? If not HERE on INSTA transfer ? THEN WHERE ELSE?!

 

[Sysmon]

Of course we already have Ironman .. Its called going into the menu and deleting your commander.

And we do have a 'save' game, its on the database!

Playing Ironman mode is an individual choice, so not a game feature. A save game implies being able to set a restore point, maybe even choose between several restore points (as it seemed was the only way to successfully play the early buggy version of Frontier and First Encounters).

If it left up to player choice, those who best game the game mechanics without making such choices will win. So saying that it's up to us to use implemented features or not is not quite right, as it will put us on uneven ground. Somebody playing Ironman being killed by someone not caring if they die or not (mutual destruction through ramming, perhaps? Or destruction by station defenses of the attacking player) will feel very differently about their respective demises.

The same goes for transfer mechanics: Somebody might choose to not use an instant transfer feature. But how would that help them if they try to group up with people that do? If we don't play by the same rule set, we won't be able to consistently play together in the same gameworld.

S

 

[Shar]

The compromise I'm referring to is the compromise to the 'one to one realism' that paying a player on NPC to transport a ship to a new location. If we can accept a cap to our flight speed, in space. If we can accept instantly re-spawning at the station we last docked at, with an exact replica of the destroyed ship. If we can accept traveling faster than light at all, I'm certain we can accept instantaneous ship transfer.

Once we go down the road to a token delay, it's all just a farcical act to pacify semi-purists. I definitely don;t see a need for that.

There are two problems being discussed re, this idea believably (lore) and Game Balance you are only dealing with the easy one. the corruption of the FSD mechanics and other unintended consequences are by far the worst problem which many of you Pro-instant player simply ignore.

 

[Sysmon]

A picture of a puppy is exactly what this thread needed right now, thanks!

But what if you don't like dogs?

S

 

[Shar]

But what if you don't like dogs?

S

Well here you go.

 

[Ironwolf]

Module storage. Well, we are getting it.
Alas, it comes with instant module replication, by 3D printing!

I think this undermines the whole galactic economy.

 

[asphaltpilot]

Sorry, but having to move your ships one by one across the bubble is not a deep concept to begin with.

No, it isn't, but doing it instantaneously is ridiculous. There are people who have spent weeks/months traveling across the deep, getting a real plausible feeling of traveling through space. And the feeling of FINALLY getting to your destination and feeling a sense of pride and accomplishment. Like "man, look at this nebula. This is what it could actually be like.....to travel like this. Awesome." To be a middle child of history* and finding solace in an experience like Elite: Dangerous is a blessing. And then to have Frontier allow you to after all that, say "give me my ship" and BOOM, here it is. Umm, wut? It completely cheapens the experience of what this SIMULATOR is all about. Changes like this which start spoon feeding players because we are a instant-gratification society is exactly why I quit World of Warcraft. I'll be taking an indefinite break from the E: D if this goes through. It changes so many features and breaks several others, but worst of all, it changes the philosophy of what this simulator is about.

* "We are the middle children of history: born too late to explore the Earth, yet born too soon to explore the cosmos"

 

[Sysmon]

http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/funny-sleeping-cats-10.jpg

Well here you go.

Thanks! I like both cats and dogs.

+2 virtual rep!

S

 

[Ironwolf]

I have to go find sulphur, iron, nickel and other really common materials, only on the surface of planets.
Can not buy them anywhere, but I might be given some as rewards.

If you can 3D print a fighter, C7 shield or even an A spec Anaconda, why not also robots, battle weapons and nearly everything on the commodities list?

This game is devolving beyond my imaginations ability to compensate.

 

[Frambitam]

I have to go find sulphur, iron, nickel and other really common materials, only on the surface of planets.
Can not buy them anywhere, but I might be given some as rewards.

If you can 3D print a fighter, C7 shield or even an A spec Anaconda, why not also robots, battle weapons and nearly everything on the commodities list?

This game is devolving beyond my imaginations ability to compensate.

Ha yeah, in the span of four days they showed nice new station interiors that match the specialised economy and population size of the system while negating any plausible reason for a specialised economy in the first place. Like seriously, why does this refinery want me to ship power generators from an industrial economy to them? Can't they just 3D print them? It's a refinery it's not like they wouldn't have the raw materials.

 

[mossfoot]

http://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/funny-sleeping-cats-10.jpg

Well here you go.

Better yet...

(ferrets rule)

 

[Ironwolf]

Ha yeah, in the span of four days they showed nice new station interiors that match the specialised economy and population size of the system while negating any plausible reason for a specialised economy in the first place. Like seriously, why does this refinery want me to ship power generators from an industrial economy to them? Can't they just 3D print them? It's a refinery it's not like they wouldn't have the raw materials.

Exactly this. Absolute Madness.
Just simply crazy design decisions.