2024 about to be a good year for Elite... for CQC too?

[Heliaxx]

So as we all know, Elite is apparently about to receive some great updates throughout this year, which is absolutely great, but also I feel like CQC is slowly becoming more active again, which is awesome because it can be lots of fun, but there's also a lot of things in it's current state that are driving people away from it/making their first experience with it quite unpleasant, which I think really is a shame.

And many of them I also feel like could be fairly easy fixes/improvements. Let's talk about them!

Critical issues
These are direct causes for so many people's negative experience with CQC and resolving them will directly improve the gamemode's health and population.

We are talking mainly connection issues, and other things that often make even just finding games a chore.

1) Crashes at the end of games, possibly leading to Broken lobbies after requeing.
You get into a lobby which despite number of players requirement being met, never starts. Requeing nor voting to skip a map usually fixes this, only possible fix is every player in the aftected lobby leaving it and relogging from main game menu. This is however very hard to do with random players you don't know in the lobby.

This directly leads me to another problem being...

2) No chat function in your squad/lobby.
Add it, it makes sense.

3) Squad invites functionality
The UI is very bad here, as it shows all your in game friends (even if offline) in a huge list that's pain to navigate.
My suggestion - possibly keep the list, BUT...
Add search function.
Do not show offline friends.
Let us add people to friends and accept the friend requests from this CQC menu so that we don't have to always exit to main menu and social tab, possibly dissolving our current squad if we just want to add someone to it we don't have in friends yet.

4) Squads only up to 4 people/Not being able to make a private match
Now I would be totally fine if some kind of private CQC games didn't even give any squadron leaderboard points or even normal CQC rank, or if the gains for those were severely lowered, but making them a thing would for sure make CQC
1) Way more approachable for new ppl for example just wanting to try it out with friends and just have a chill evening in there (there is this option in main game, you don't have to straight up fly to ShinDez and let 4 FDLs gang up on you right away, you can take it easy at first and just have some casual duels and flying drills until you get a better grasp)
2) Make it a decently popular option for squadron events/competitions due to its great accesebility and essentially everyone being on a leveled playing field from the get go, no need to go anywhere and engineer anything.

Gameplay issues
Now we move to less sever issues that are not by any means gamebreaking, but together result in a suboptimal enjoyment of the games nevertheless.
In this category, mainly powerups are the issue. It's definitely a very engaging and Fun concept, but as they are, their balance is really broken.

1) Powerups are broken on Asteria and Cluster Compound
In a way that makes them being instanced for every player separately so everyone has their own timer on them and mutiple people can pick it up at the same time.
Altho this does make it impossible for anyone to be able to take the powerup from someone else, it is in its way kind of fun, especially on Cluster Compound so it might be worthwhile to maybe try and make us somehow be able to choose from both of these options on any map maybe with vote or something.
But if not, just fix it and make the PUs be instanced for everyone in the match in a same way.

2) Bad Powerups balance
Some, like engines boost and Shields PUs are situational at best, while Weapons and mainly Stealth can be extremely overpowered, especially when paired together which is way too easy to do especially on maps like Icefield or Elevate.
This could be a rather easy fix for esample by changing how Stealth works in a way that when you fire at someone, you stop being non targetable for everyone in the match, not just the commander you are targetting, making it harder to cheese the fights with it by forcing 1v1 on someone.


Im sure Im not the only one having some thoughts on this, feel free to discuss/disagree/share your ideas under this post.
And if you ever feel like it, try some CQC It may still be buggy as hell but also is just a lot of fun when the stars align and everything goes right

 

[MUSKETEER]

CQC is great, just bugs need to be fixed.

Private matches = alt farming, stat padding, squadron leaderboards cheating with no chance to witness and report it

Power ups are fine they were initially so one power up can be active at the time, but now on 2 maps power ups have separate instance for each player and everyone can have them at the same time. That's definitely not intended.

No such thing like bad power up balance. The arena us exactly the same for everyone.Random power ups would completely throw tactical element of CQC Arena out of the window.

 

[Heliaxx]

CQC is great, just bugs need to be fixed.

Private matches = alt farming, stat padding, squadron leaderboards cheating with no chance to witness and report it

Power ups are fine they were initially so one power up can be active at the time, but now on 2 maps power ups have separate instance for each player and everyone can have them at the same time. That's definitely not intended.

No such thing like bad power up balance. The arena us exactly the same for everyone.Random power ups would completely throw tactical element of CQC Arena out of the window.

Well I explicitly said I personally wouldnt even mind if private matches didnt give squadron points or rank or just a small portion of what "open" matches would, but just having a training ground would definitely be worthwhile in the long term.
Random powerups isnt actually something I mentioned but now that I think about it, it COULD be pretty cool. It actually feels better I would say to rely more on quick reflexes and reactions, than a pure memorising.

 

[MUSKETEER]

Private matches shouldn't give any points. And you can play legacy cqc just like that.. nobody plays there you can take your friends and play privately there.

 

[Heliaxx]

Private matches shouldn't give any points. And you can play legacy cqc just like that.. nobody plays there you can take your friends and play privately there.

Well I mean, there IS a reason why not that many people play CQC. You played it for a LONG time so you may not even mind anymore but it's simply not very user friendly all around. Yes you could play legacy but just the fact that you can doesnt mean it's the best way to solve that problem. You said it yourself, noone plays there. No new folks trying it out will go out of their way to switch to legacy every time they wanna have just a little CQC session, its pretty weird to think of that as solution to anything.

 

[MUSKETEER]

Stop being toxic

I love CQC, and many people do too. But we don't want CQC to be broken only because it doesn't suit you.

We play CQC every day, not in private matches Feel free to join.

Before Odyssey many people were playing CQC, it was good and it was fun.
There are just many new things to do in the main game. CQC is like a separate game, we are a small group that still love and care about it. There are sadly no incentives to play CQC other than love for this game itself. Exclusive decals and paintjobs for cqc players would be nice and boost numbers of some random players. But FDevs are not willing to give decals and paintjobs "for free". Nothing is developed/updated more often than Frontier Store sadly.

 

[Heliaxx]

Stop being toxic

I love CQC, and many people do to. But we don't want CQC to be broken only because it doesn't suit you.

Dont see the toxicity you're talking about but you do you I guess

 

[MUSKETEER]

We looked at CQC activity in Legacy not that long ago, there was none. It's perfect ground to play private matches.

I can promise you I won't go to Legacy to look for you or your friends.

 

[Heliaxx]

We looked at CQC activity in Legacy not that long ago, there was none. It's perfect ground to play private matches.

I can promise you I won't go to Legacy to look for you or your friends.

Bro why you still talking about me and my friends Thats not what the conversation is about here lol

 

[Silver Styles]

So as we all know, Elite is apparently about to receive some great updates throughout this year, which is absolutely great, but also I feel like CQC is slowly becoming more active again, which is awesome because it can be lots of fun, but there's also a lot of things in it's current state that are driving people away from it/making their first experience with it quite unpleasant, which I think really is a shame.

And many of them I also feel like could be fairly easy fixes/improvements. Let's talk about them!

Critical issues
These are direct causes for so many people's negative experience with CQC and resolving them will directly improve the gamemode's health and population.

We are talking mainly connection issues, and other things that often make even just finding games a chore.

1) Crashes at the end of games, possibly leading to Broken lobbies after requeing.
You get into a lobby which despite number of players requirement being met, never starts. Requeing nor voting to skip a map usually fixes this, only possible fix is every player in the aftected lobby leaving it and relogging from main game menu. This is however very hard to do with random players you don't know in the lobby.

This directly leads me to another problem being...

2) No chat function in your squad/lobby.
Add it, it makes sense.

3) Squad invites functionality
The UI is very bad here, as it shows all your in game friends (even if offline) in a huge list that's pain to navigate.
My suggestion - possibly keep the list, BUT...
Add search function.
Do not show offline friends.
Let us add people to friends and accept the friend requests from this CQC menu so that we don't have to always exit to main menu and social tab, possibly dissolving our current squad if we just want to add someone to it we don't have in friends yet.

4) Squads only up to 4 people/Not being able to make a private match
Now I would be totally fine if some kind of private CQC games didn't even give any squadron leaderboard points or even normal CQC rank, or if the gains for those were severely lowered, but making them a thing would for sure make CQC
1) Way more approachable for new ppl for example just wanting to try it out with friends and just have a chill evening in there (there is this option in main game, you don't have to straight up fly to ShinDez and let 4 FDLs gang up on you right away, you can take it easy at first and just have some casual duels and flying drills until you get a better grasp)
2) Make it a decently popular option for squadron events/competitions due to its great accesebility and essentially everyone being on a leveled playing field from the get go, no need to go anywhere and engineer anything.

Gameplay issues
Now we move to less sever issues that are not by any means gamebreaking, but together result in a suboptimal enjoyment of the games nevertheless.
In this category, mainly powerups are the issue. It's definitely a very engaging and Fun concept, but as they are, their balance is really broken.

1) Powerups are broken on Asteria and Cluster Compound
In a way that makes them being instanced for every player separately so everyone has their own timer on them and mutiple people can pick it up at the same time.
Altho this does make it impossible for anyone to be able to take the powerup from someone else, it is in its way kind of fun, especially on Cluster Compound so it might be worthwhile to maybe try and make us somehow be able to choose from both of these options on any map maybe with vote or something.
But if not, just fix it and make the PUs be instanced for everyone in the match in a same way.

2) Bad Powerups balance
Some, like engines boost and Shields PUs are situational at best, while Weapons and mainly Stealth can be extremely overpowered, especially when paired together which is way too easy to do especially on maps like Icefield or Elevate.
This could be a rather easy fix for esample by changing how Stealth works in a way that when you fire at someone, you stop being non targetable for everyone in the match, not just the commander you are targetting, making it harder to cheese the fights with it by forcing 1v1 on someone.


Im sure Im not the only one having some thoughts on this, feel free to discuss/disagree/share your ideas under this post.
And if you ever feel like it, try some CQC It may still be buggy as hell but also is just a lot of fun when the stars align and everything goes right
View attachment 385039

I agree with this on pretty much all fronts. CQC is the most fun I've had in Elite and it's tragic that it's turned into the dry husk that it is today. All it needs is even a third of the love Thargoid content is getting and it could thrive again.

Personally, I'm ok with all the powerups except stealth. I like your suggestion but, to me, it makes more sense to have the powerup END ENTIRELY once you shoot, it's supposed to be stealth not a free pass to pick people off one at a time, constantly firing weapons isn't entirely stealthy. Having it end on firing transforms it into a more tactical powerup to facilitate positioning/getaways/grabbing other PU's/etc rather than just turning a FFA into a temporary 1v1.

I also think silent running needs addressing. I'm personally not against it at all the way it is but against most people, it basically makes them unable to target you. It needs a slightly better counter available to people of all skill levels and IMO the counter should be heat beams. Heat beams should heat the ever-living F out of a ship with SR on, kinda like how heat is multiplied in the main game with SR on. That would be hilarious, interesting and actually give people a reason to use a weapon other than boring old pulses.

While we're talking weapons; pulse lasers. There's no reason not to use them. I think they just need a minor dps decrease and thermal load increase. Beam weapons should have a high distro draw and high damage but they're currently just high distro and medium damage. There's plenty of fun weapons that just don't see any use
The Sidewinder weapons are just plain bad though. They're mostly projectile, which is fine but they just travel reaaally slow.... you can't hit anything with them without being right on the enemy ship but since it flies so bad, itself, you often never will be in that position. I'm not sure how to fix those. Perhaps a projectile speed increase but a dps decrease to compensate? They ARE very high dps, they just don't hit.

I also really like the idea of random powerups. I've never really thought of that. It would create fairly reactive and organic gameplay rather than predictable loops that can just be controlled for the entire match, especially with stealth the way it is currently. It would also make every power up location valuable and would spread out players to areas of the map they may not usually venture (looking at you Ice Field). If we're hypothetically improving the lobby, it would be a fun toggle/mutator to add to games.

If you ask most people why they don't like CQC, it's usually one or both of these reasons:
1 - The lobbies and matching are crap (like you mentioned).
2 - They want to be able to enjoy the game with people of similar skill levels. That's a nice way of saying, nobody finds it fun to be farmed.

Games are supposed to be fun. Skill-based matching is something players of today are going to want in any game. IDGAF what old-school arena shooters used to be like and IDGAF what the dyed in the wool vets have to say about this, most people want even, fun matches and that's here to stay. Apparently CQC is SUPPOSED to have a semblance of SBMM in it somewhere but the player pool is so low that it doesn't do anything. Subsequently, people are proving that point by simply not playing. It just isn't fun to be helplessly outmatched every game forever, which is how most people feel. Again, IDGAF what vets think about that so save your breath, champs, yeah yeah you were all farmed when you started too blah blah. People don't want that, evidently.

Anyways, great post, Heliaxx! I hope more people come back to CQC and see that it's just straight up fun!
Unfortunately, Fdev have given up on improving the best part of their game and while it's heartening to see people take an interest in CQC, we all know Fdev are going to do jack to improve it and I often feel these topics are just a waste of time . Tragic. I'd be happy to have Fdev prove me wrong on that.

 

[Heliaxx]

I agree with this on pretty much all fronts. CQC is the most fun I've had in Elite and it's tragic that it's turned into the dry husk that it is today. All it needs is even a third of the love Thargoid content is getting and it could thrive again.

Personally, I'm ok with all the powerups except stealth. I like your suggestion but, to me, it makes more sense to have the powerup END ENTIRELY once you shoot, it's supposed to be stealth not a free pass to pick people off one at a time, constantly firing weapons isn't entirely stealthy. Having it end on firing transforms it into a more tactical powerup to facilitate positioning/getaways/grabbing other PU's/etc rather than just turning a FFA into a temporary 1v1.

I also think silent running needs addressing. I'm personally not against it at all the way it is but against most people, it basically makes them unable to target you. It needs a slightly better counter available to people of all skill levels and IMO the counter should be heat beams. Heat beams should heat the ever-living F out of a ship with SR on, kinda like how heat is multiplied in the main game with SR on. That would be hilarious, interesting and actually give people a reason to use a weapon other than boring old pulses.

While we're talking weapons; pulse lasers. There's no reason not to use them. I think they just need a minor dps decrease and thermal load increase. Beam weapons should have a high distro draw and high damage but they're currently just high distro and medium damage. There's plenty of fun weapons that just don't see any use
The Sidewinder weapons are just plain bad though. They're mostly projectile, which is fine but they just travel reaaally slow.... you can't hit anything with them without being right on the enemy ship but since it flies so bad, itself, you often never will be in that position. I'm not sure how to fix those. Perhaps a projectile speed increase but a dps decrease to compensate? They ARE very high dps, they just don't hit.

I also really like the idea of random powerups. I've never really thought of that. It would create fairly reactive and organic gameplay rather than predictable loops that can just be controlled for the entire match, especially with stealth the way it is currently. It would also make every power up location valuable and would spread out players to areas of the map they may not usually venture (looking at you Ice Field). If we're hypothetically improving the lobby, it would be a fun toggle/mutator to add to games.

If you ask most people why they don't like CQC, it's usually one or both of these reasons:
1 - The lobbies and matching are crap (like you mentioned).
2 - They want to be able to enjoy the game with people of similar skill levels. That's a nice way of saying, nobody finds it fun to be farmed.

Games are supposed to be fun. Skill-based matching is something players of today are going to want in any game. IDGAF what old-school arena shooters used to be like and IDGAF what the dyed in the wool vets have to say about this, most people want even, fun matches and that's here to stay. Apparently CQC is SUPPOSED to have a semblance of SBMM in it somewhere but the player pool is so low that it doesn't do anything. Subsequently, people are proving that point by simply not playing. It just isn't fun to be helplessly outmatched every game forever, which is how most people feel. Again, IDGAF what vets think about that so save your breath, champs, yeah yeah you were all farmed when you started too blah blah. People don't want that, evidently.

Anyways, great post, Heliaxx! I hope more people come back to CQC and see that it's just straight up fun!
Unfortunately, Fdev have given up on improving the best part of their game and while it's heartening to see people take an interest in CQC, we all know Fdev are going to do jack to improve it and I often feel these topics are just a waste of time . Tragic. I'd be happy to have Fdev prove me wrong on that.

Damn, awesome suggestions as well. Just dunno what you talking about with the Sidey, its clearly the meta I actually tried the auto cannons lately tho and they ARE lots of fun but yea, sadly just not as competetive as the pulses. Musk actually did put out one good suggestion here as well lol, I think actually making CQC pay some decent credits would be a nice motivator for more general audience to try it as well and who knows, maybe like a 5% of the ppl would stick with it lol

 

[Steven G]

Legacy is bugged too, condor crash has never been fixed afaik for example.

 

[Screemonster]

As long as any private groups don't count for the leaderboards I don't care if people wanna farm their alts or whatever, it's not like people don't farm combat rank AFK in solo in the main game. Complaining about the terror of PGs coming to CQC from the main game sounds to me like getting mad that exploration isn't open only.

One thing that would be neat to see to prevent all these noob-farming accusations would be some sort of amateur league lobby that only matches you with people who haven't yet met the requirement to prestige yet, so new players have time to learn the maps with people of their own skill level without worrying about getting rolled 8-0 by someone who's been playing the game for a decade - kinda like the PF district in a way, booting them out to play with the big boys once they're high enough rank. (and only have the leaderboard count points scored in the full league)

Of course, it'd need some sort of smurf-prevention because you know some nolifer will get the bright idea to set up an alt so they can spend their day rolling newbies in the kiddie pool - at the very least, xp for amateur league qualification should be tied to your frontier account instead of your save so you can't just clear it and make a new cmdr under a new name every week.

 

[Northpin]

The only thing i would want from CQC is to allow Solo practice matches against NPC of selectable level (harmless to elite), on all maps and with all ships/mods/perks available in multyplayer CQC

This will do a lot to players training, learning the maps, the ship, anything - this will make the switch to multiplayer CQC much easier - no need for private matches or something like that
Sure, they could also allow training in private / closed groups - assuming no points are given. But even solo training could go a long way to make CQC more popular

 

[MUSKETEER]

I don't know what it is with your squadron @Silver Styles @Heliaxx But not long ago you were sending proposals for Elite Dangerous changes including CQC on Reddit and you didn't get a warm response from the community, I didn't even have to say anything you just drowned yourself with your attitude.

You clearly lack knowledge of Arena mode and consequences of implementing your proposals. This is what you posted on reddit.

Source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/19b1lpl

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/19b1lpl/my_list_of_improvements_for_elite_that_will_be/

 

[MUSKETEER]

The only thing i would want from CQC is to allow Solo practice matches against NPC of selectable level (harmless to elite), on all maps and with all ships/mods/perks available in multyplayer CQC

This will do a lot to players training, learning the maps, the ship, anything - this will make the switch to multiplayer CQC much easier - no need for private matches or something like that
Sure, they could also allow training in private / closed groups - assuming no points are given. But even solo training could go a long way to make CQC more popular

Unranked training CQC with NPCs is a good idea. Just like with the Training in the main game it could benefit new players. But anything ranked should be open to all and no NPCs.

 

[Northpin]

But anything ranked should be open to all and no NPCs.

Absolutely ( and/or npc kills not counting towards ranking - that would work too IMO, and optional NPCs it would make team fights possible even when there aren't enough players for a decent team deathmatch or ctf )

 

[Morbad]

I don't see any major issues with CQC balance that don't come down to matchmaking and I don't think there are enough people playing CQC for skill based matchmaking to work. Outside prime hours, matchmaking barely happens as it is.

I do think a training mode where one could experiment and learn the maps without being shot down early and often for the first several hours would be beneficial.

I also think silent running needs addressing. I'm personally not against it at all the way it is but against most people, it basically makes them unable to target you. It needs a slightly better counter available to people of all skill levels and IMO the counter should be heat beams. Heat beams should heat the ever-living F out of a ship with SR on, kinda like how heat is multiplied in the main game with SR on. That would be hilarious, interesting and actually give people a reason to use a weapon other than boring old pulses.

Silent running doesn't multiply incoming heat in the main game, it just prevents and heat from be dissipated. Thermal shock also isn't much a of a counter to silent running; a ship in silent running presents the same thermal signature no matter what it's internal temperature is. Thermal shock can increase that temperature faster, but beyond reaching the thresholds for damage, and the time it takes to cool down after the fact, temperature has no other effects. Hull and modules take the same damage per second at 200% temperature as they do at 4000%, for example.

 

[MUSKETEER]

What drastically lowered the number of CQC players was the Odyssey, not CQC itself. CQC was fine pre Odyssey - back then many, many people had Triple Elite and no more ranks to play for except CQC and we experienced this massive influx of main game players trying to get their last rank.

So CQC player numbers will remain lower as long as the main game is full of new content and things/ranks/medals to achieve etc.
Lack on incentives for playing CQC doesn't help either.

 

[CoolRatFacts]

CQC rank should be something achievable outside of enthusiasts that have played for 5+ years.


No one is ever in the lobbies besides a few no-lifes(Like CQC Bot and Fat Jesus). This means that any casual pilot that has not trained in Elite and CQC PvP will either be farmed for clout, or left in an empty lobby.

There should be CQC bots, and they should count for rank(greatly reduced rank, but something to encourage players to join), because of right now, even if you are an amazing pilot who can even beat WRYW, you would be lucky to break mostly harmless with hours of "grinding".

If you get pilots joining to do CQC with a lobby of NPC's that are Elite level, there will be more pilots joining, even if just for the smallest CQC reward. With more people joining, you will actually see real people. And then you get actual games that are not just joining a streamer.