A community divided by a game that went astray of its original vision

[Ddef12]

I don´t think so. To be honest, I feel Frontier adds these features only because it looks so cool. "look, how great we care about our game!". In reality, these features are often unbalanced, buggy or annoying.

I tend to agree that some of the free add ons were rushed to release. The sequencer is a very powerful tool but too clunky with a sometimes confusing UI. It is little things that makes me wish they teased features and garnered feedback from the community before release. Fireworks? Yeah make a show worth this new tool, but you will need to guess what the height and explosion looks like when the show plays. It would have been great to be able to offer he feedback, when placing the firework cannon, can we get a static ghost explosion of what it looks like in air? Etc.

Dont get me wrong, I love this game. But I often lay on the fence on certain decisions and implementations by Frontier. I still enjoy it for what it is but I do wish it was a tad more balanced in many aspects.

 

[Palaber1984]

I say it as short as possible. I love building in creative mode. PC has a phenomenal creative part. But the management isn’t so good as the creative part. Creative and management parts should balance each other but it doesn’t do.

That’s why the game gets from all over the world just 6-7 point from 10. That’s a fact!

 

[djwessie]

I tend to agree that some of the free add ons were rushed to release. The sequencer is a very powerful tool but too clunky with a sometimes confusing UI. It is little things that makes me wish they teased features and garnered feedback from the community before release. Fireworks? Yeah make a show worth this new tool, but you will need to guess what the height and explosion looks like when the show plays. It would have been great to be able to offer he feedback, when placing the firework cannon, can we get a static ghost explosion of what it looks like in air? Etc.

Dont get me wrong, I love this game. But I often lay on the fence on certain decisions and implementations by Frontier. I still enjoy it for what it is but I do wish it was a tad more balanced in many aspects.

I strongly have the feeling that the Developers are not willing to listen to what most of us like to be improved, and just let the community manager handle the critics and mostly they are like: Well, we should tell the DEV team but... No hard feelings, for me it feels like it never comes to the DEV office when someone just offers a really good improvement. Most of the old RCT community is now like, we could have done that better, but are not able to fully write a game engine or a executable game. Just creating content which helps the game. I think with some really good modder and custom ride creator, we could have much better water rides. Also with a UI and more management options.

 

[Ramm]

I say it as short as possible. I love building in creative mode. PC has a phenomenal creative part. But the management isn’t so good as the creative part. Creative and management parts should balance each other but it doesn’t do.

That’s why the game gets from all over the world just 6-7 point from 10. That’s a fact!

The building part is also lacking after you've played it for a while though. With most importantly a Spline bases fence tool, custom value inputs instead of guessing how many degrees something is rotated, a way to place every model in the game so you can create fake coasters on a transport table for example. And for coasters well we STILL HAVE NOT every element for every coaster. The real cobra rolls are only on the shuttle coasters, coaster smoothness is a drama still as you can read in the 50 page thread, coaster tracks are still restricted in going inverted even with a cheat, we cant add extra nodes within the track to make it extra smooth and still have no control over the coaster supports except we can enable/disable them. I'm also missing some or more like alot of building pieces such as quarter walls etc and smaller art shapes in general.

Many issues would hopefully be fixed if we will ever get mods but untill then I cant really be bothered to play anymore.

 

[redrum]

I cant really be bothered to play anymore.

You keep saying this, Ramm. Yet you keep venting your complaints here on the forum. [wacky]

Fences are decorative items only, they serve no practical function, and not everyone is constantly building fences. I've made about two fences in 2 years, and it was easy to do without a fence tool.

In JWE, large and long fences are used to keep dinosaurs from escaping, so obviously fences are a crucial part of the game. A general spline tool in PC would be nice, but only if any scenery piece could be added to the spline, with rotation, distribution and number of instance options. A "fence tool" might be what you want, but it's too specific. PC is not about building fences.

Your other complaint is about rain. Get over it! JWE is an OUTSIDE game, there's no exploring buildings and creating underground areas, it's all outside. So there's no "inside/outside" calculations to be made constantly at runtime to exclude rain from certain areas. In PC we have roofs made of scenery, buildings, terrain, or combination of those things. Calculations would be needed every millisecond to figure out what is and isn't worthy of a "shelter" that prevents rain from coming in, and stop guests putting up their umbrellas, and whatever other changes to environment are made due to rain. A framerate killer for sure.

Besides, you can already add weather effects now for your rides. You can have a coaster run through thick clouds, rain, lightning with great thunder sounds. Have you done this yet? Why don't you make a rainy coaster, and upload to workshop instead of wasting time here on forum complaining about "lack of rain" !!!

 

[Ramm]

You keep saying this, Ramm. Yet you keep venting your complaints here on the forum. [wacky]

Fences are decorative items only, they serve no practical function, and not everyone is constantly building fences. I've made about two fences in 2 years, and it was easy to do without a fence tool.

In JWE, large and long fences are used to keep dinosaurs from escaping, so obviously fences are a crucial part of the game. A general spline tool in PC would be nice, but only if any scenery piece could be added to the spline, with rotation, distribution and number of instance options. A "fence tool" might be what you want, but it's too specific. PC is not about building fences.

Your other complaint is about rain. Get over it! JWE is an OUTSIDE game, there's no exploring buildings and creating underground areas, it's all outside. So there's no "inside/outside" calculations to be made constantly at runtime to exclude rain from certain areas. In PC we have roofs made of scenery, buildings, terrain, or combination of those things. Calculations would be needed every millisecond to figure out what is and isn't worthy of a "shelter" that prevents rain from coming in, and stop guests putting up their umbrellas, and whatever other changes to environment are made due to rain. A framerate killer for sure.

Besides, you can already add weather effects now for your rides. You can have a coaster run through thick clouds, rain, lightning with great thunder sounds. Have you done this yet? Why don't you make a rainy coaster, and upload to workshop instead of wasting time here on forum complaining about "lack of rain" !!!

Yup thats the weird part, I still come her and occasionally post. Because this game could be so much more and i'm still hoping at some point everything is gonna change

 

[dixinormous]

You keep saying this, Ramm. Yet you keep venting your complaints here on the forum. [wacky]

Judging by the rest of this thread, he's not alone. [haha]

Fences are decorative items only, they serve no practical function, and not everyone is constantly building fences. I've made about two fences in 2 years, and it was easy to do without a fence tool.

Well that's that settled then. [haha][rolleyes]

A general spline tool in PC would be nice, but only if any scenery piece could be added to the spline, with rotation, distribution and number of instance options. A "fence tool" might be what you want, but it's too specific. PC is not about building fences.

Well, I disagree. Personally I'd be happy with just being able to click and drag a fence. But you know, let's over engineer it like everything else.

Your other complaint is about rain. Get over it! JWE is an OUTSIDE game, there's no exploring buildings and creating underground areas, it's all outside. So there's no "inside/outside" calculations to be made constantly at runtime to exclude rain from certain areas. In PC we have roofs made of scenery, buildings, terrain, or combination of those things. Calculations would be needed every millisecond to figure out what is and isn't worthy of a "shelter" that prevents rain from coming in, and stop guests putting up their umbrellas, and whatever other changes to environment are made due to rain. A framerate killer for sure.

Good point. Who needs a simple immersion mechanic like weather? It's not like this game is built for immersion or pleasure anyway.

And your right, it is super difficult to do. Even those plucky upstarts at Parkitect haven't managed to crack that particular nut yet... Wait, what?

Besides, you can already add weather effects now for your rides. You can have a coaster run through thick clouds, rain, lightning with great thunder sounds. Have you done this yet? Why don't you make a rainy coaster, and upload to workshop instead of wasting time here on forum complaining about "lack of rain" !!!

Ahh haha, hahaha, haha... "Framerates"

[haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha][haha]

Thank you man. I havent laughed like that in a long time.

 

[joeee]

i think redrum is one of this guys who living in a dream world and ignore the facts

I strongly have the feeling that the Developers are not willing to listen to what most of us like to be improved, and just let the community manager handle the critics and mostly they are like: Well, we should tell the DEV team but... No hard feelings, for me it feels like it never comes to the DEV office when someone just offers a really good improvement. Most of the old RCT community is now like, we could have done that better, but are not able to fully write a game engine or a executable game. Just creating content which helps the game. I think with some really good modder and custom ride creator, we could have much better water rides. Also with a UI and more management options.

this !!!

 

[mr.sugar]

You keep saying this, Ramm. Yet you keep venting your complaints here on the forum. [wacky]

Fences are decorative items only, they serve no practical function, and not everyone is constantly building fences.

Yes, me neither, because it is so annoying that I cannot bother! And it´s not only about missing spline tool for it, it´s about clunky controls and UI in general. Even if you have a fence from workshop, you have to select it in the menu, place it and to place another bit of it, you have to select it again. And even this was not fixed and developers ignore it, while in general, I think it´s quite a problem. At this point, this game has no good management aspect, but the building aspect needs a lot of work and yet, even this part wasn´t very much improved. Instead, we are getting new features and even these feel very unfinished and if they consider them finished, then they are plain badly designed.

Your argument about the weather is correct, but.... It would be possible if developers designed the game and technology properly. It´s interesting what Parkitect developers managed to simulate, weather included.

But what the biggest problem is that they don´t communicate. They pretend they listen, but they don´t. I also starting to dislike the streams in general, where they try to make you feel how everything is perfect, cool. They know about our concerns, but they avoid them in streams, they cannot face it and tell us. Not sure if they even bothered to say anything about possible improvement to fireworks. I can´t imagine there is even single person happy with them replacing the timeline from RCT3 with what we have right now, yet, I don´t recall them saying that they get our concerns...

 

[djwessie]

You keep saying this, Ramm. Yet you keep venting your complaints here on the forum. [wacky]

Fences are decorative items only, they serve no practical function, and not everyone is constantly building fences. I've made about two fences in 2 years, and it was easy to do without a fence tool.

In JWE, large and long fences are used to keep dinosaurs from escaping, so obviously fences are a crucial part of the game. A general spline tool in PC would be nice, but only if any scenery piece could be added to the spline, with rotation, distribution and number of instance options. A "fence tool" might be what you want, but it's too specific. PC is not about building fences.

Your other complaint is about rain. Get over it! JWE is an OUTSIDE game, there's no exploring buildings and creating underground areas, it's all outside. So there's no "inside/outside" calculations to be made constantly at runtime to exclude rain from certain areas. In PC we have roofs made of scenery, buildings, terrain, or combination of those things. Calculations would be needed every millisecond to figure out what is and isn't worthy of a "shelter" that prevents rain from coming in, and stop guests putting up their umbrellas, and whatever other changes to environment are made due to rain. A framerate killer for sure.

Besides, you can already add weather effects now for your rides. You can have a coaster run through thick clouds, rain, lightning with great thunder sounds. Have you done this yet? Why don't you make a rainy coaster, and upload to workshop instead of wasting time here on forum complaining about "lack of rain" !!!

Planet Coaster is just a piece of land inside a big mall or construction? I think Planet Coaster is also a OUTSIDE game unless you build a building that makes it a INDOOR park.

 

[lilibat]

Planet Coaster is just a piece of land inside a big mall or construction? I think Planet Coaster is also a OUTSIDE game unless you build a building that makes it a INDOOR park.

What they mean is, JWE doesn't have indoor spaces the player deals with. PC does. If it rains inside a building in JWE no one cares because no one sees it. As complainey as everyone is about light leakage into buildings you can only imagine the brouhaha over it raining or snowing inside your lovely enclosed food court.

 

[djwessie]

I know what they mean but give the engine a big update and fix it Frontier!

 

[breezerHOG1]

What they mean is, JWE doesn't have indoor spaces the player deals with. PC does. If it rains inside a building in JWE no one cares because no one sees it. As complainey as everyone is about light leakage into buildings you can only imagine the brouhaha over it raining or snowing inside your lovely enclosed food court.

theoretically, we can cover buildings with terrain (assuming terrain can block light therefore it should technically block rain, right?)

[IMO] we can have a simple "2D-overlay" like we had in RCT3 (it stopped raining when underground or underwater)

it doesn't need to be overly-complicated 3D rain that burns a hole through my CPU ........it can rain through walls........ if....

..if....... we could just get better terrain tools (such as the ability to toggle various grid-patterns for raising terrain in cubes/90degree angles) like in RCT3, it would be a lot easier to create dark rides then..... I have only been posting about this 1000 times for the past 2 years [heart] https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/30228-Important-Terrain-Improvements

 

[Galder]

Technically, rain is just a global flag set in the peep preference, like daytime. The rest is eyecandy. As there's already a day and night illumination, there's absolutely no reason why there shouldn't be be a less brightly lit skybox/light set for simulating a cloudy sky. It's just a lot of work to get it right. Also, the visible rain can be solved with less effort than maybe expected. If rain is just a 2D Overlay in front of the players camera, than you just need to check the height of the players camera position. This is something the games does automatically... you can't go through solid ground or through solid parts of buildings. The collision detection is already there, it just needs to be connected to the rain flag. This way, you can also determine if a coaster is covered or not, so you don't need any fancy positioning stuff. So, regardless if you're underground or if there's a roof above your position, the game already identifies your camera position and can display rain or not. It just needs to be done and there needs to be someone doing it with a lot of patience and knowledge of the engine, textures and math.
You can get completely dark spaces, if you build under ground. That means the light is already blocked completely. No light=no rain.... problem with rain solved underground. Just as an example... it's even easier with roof parts.
That's how i build darkrides, by the way. I build them below ground, with a little bit of soil/hill covered by some building parts. You can build inside your cave a building with some dark colored, non reflective building parts, and you won't notice edges, bumps or normals from the terrain textures. If you go for a realistic look, you have to lower the complete ride below your surface and just build a fake hall above it. The only thing which would be bit off is the elevation of your queue. But that's personal preference. Most of the people here have build enough stuff to fill several parks So most will know that.

What i really would like to see is a solution to the fragmentation of the community. Someone with just the basic game can't use user generated content, as he's missing the DLCs. He'd have to pay for all the tiny parts used in those creations.... if not, he can't use it. Just count how much you'd have to pay to get the "complete" game... it almost doubles the price. I can't even imagine how many users were scared away by this "feature" some weeks or even months after release. "I'll buy this game and play it... looks cool. Wait! 5 Bucks for 2 kart skins and some curtains used in different settings. Oh, and 5 bucks for this tiny screw of a dragster somewhere. Oh, and i get nothing else... that's cool... i'll pay definately loads of bucks for things i'll never use, just to be able to use some user generated content!" After thinking about this... how many people could have bought this product, if there wouldn't be an accidential paywall denying users to play the game as it was meant? If you emphasize on user generated content it should be usable. If not... calculate if you'd have earned more money by selling the base game over and over again against the possibility to sell DLCs to a rapidly shrinking base of customers. Perhaps this kind of game isn't suitable for small and fast upgrades? And if there'd be a solution (like placeholder structures and parts used by DLC content) would it be possible to earn more money? Just leaving this thought trailing slowly away

 

[Citytrader]

What i really would like to see is a solution to the fragmentation of the community. Someone with just the basic game can't use user generated content, as he's missing the DLCs. He'd have to pay for all the tiny parts used in those creations.... if not, he can't use it. Just count how much you'd have to pay to get the "complete" game... it almost doubles the price. I can't even imagine how many users were scared away by this "feature" some weeks or even months after release.

Not totally disagreeing with you here, but what about something like Sims? You have to buy certain packs to get certain features, right? Same difference.

Personally, if I commit to a game, I buy all the downloads. You know, in for a penny, in for a pound, until I get bored, then I move on to the next thing. But that of course is me.

As for this whole community divided by a game discussion, I think we've beaten this dead horse enough.

We obviously have "glass half full" and "glass half empty" personality types in the discussion, and all we are doing is trying to hold back each other's tide from coming in. Perhaps this thread should just be put to bed.

 

[KickAir8p]

. . . We obviously have "glass half full" and "glass half empty" personality types in the discussion, and all we are doing is trying to hold back each other's tide from coming in. Perhaps this thread should just be put to bed.

I disagree -- the different gameplay goals are NOT mutually exclusive, and it's divide'n'conquer to say so. [down]

 

[mr.sugar]

Not totally disagreeing with you here, but what about something like Sims? You have to buy certain packs to get certain features, right? Same difference.

Personally, if I commit to a game, I buy all the downloads. You know, in for a penny, in for a pound, until I get bored, then I move on to the next thing. But that of course is me.

As for this whole community divided by a game discussion, I think we've beaten this dead horse enough.

We obviously have "glass half full" and "glass half empty" personality types in the discussion, and all we are doing is trying to hold back each other's tide from coming in. Perhaps this thread should just be put to bed.

This Sims was never built on sharing things with the community, at least not this heavily as PC is. So it certainly is different case here.

 

[djwessie]

Not totally disagreeing with you here, but what about something like Sims? You have to buy certain packs to get certain features, right? Same difference.

Personally, if I commit to a game, I buy all the downloads. You know, in for a penny, in for a pound, until I get bored, then I move on to the next thing. But that of course is me.

As for this whole community divided by a game discussion, I think we've beaten this dead horse enough.

We obviously have "glass half full" and "glass half empty" personality types in the discussion, and all we are doing is trying to hold back each other's tide from coming in. Perhaps this thread should just be put to bed.

This Sims was never built on sharing things with the community, at least not this heavily as PC is. So it certainly is different case here.

I think for the perfect balance between great DLC packs and the community sharing/mods system the DEV team needs to take a look at Cities: Skylines. The stuff for the sims is only to make money. At Colossal Order they actually improve the game!

 

[Chems]

The Sims does have mods tho..

 

[Citytrader]

This Sims was never built on sharing things with the community, at least not this heavily as PC is. So it certainly is different case here.

I was merely pointing out that PC is not the only game that requires you to purchase individual packs if you want certain features. In that, they are similar.

I think for the perfect balance between great DLC packs and the community sharing/mods system the DEV team needs to take a look at Cities: Skylines. The stuff for the sims is only to make money. At Colossal Order they actually improve the game!

I did not mention CS because probably around 100 people already have. But correct me if I am wrong, but don't you also have to either purchase packs from the company as well as download user content to run certain scenarios or cities or whatever they are called? So in that respect, they are also similar to PC.

I disagree -- the different gameplay goals are NOT mutually exclusive, and it's divide'n'conquer to say so. [down]

I never said a word about different gameplay goals, so I have no idea what you are talking about. I was merely emphasizing that PC is not the only game that requires the purchase of packs or expansions or whatever to enjoy certain features, in fact, many games now follow that business model. It's called making money.

Once last time, we obviously have "glass half full" and "glass half empty" personality types in the discussion, and all we are doing is trying to hold back each other's tide from coming in. No one is ever going to "win" or "lose" this argument, and in my totally personal opinion, even if Frontier corrected every single little issue that people have, there are certain parties on the boards who would still find a reason to complain, or find fault with something. Hence the "glass half full" reference.

So again, perhaps this thread should just be put to bed.