A comparison of ED vs X3

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Just for comparison ED vs X3 pros and cons. I tried to keep it as balanced as possible, but as I began thinking of things to write, it started to become harder to do so. So here we go.


Pros


ED: Great built-in support for peripherals such as the Rift or X-55 Rhino.
X3: Poor built-in support, but can be tweaked and configured to make it mostly functional.

ED: Amazing sound design across the board.
X3: Decent sound design and effects, quality varies wildly.

ED: Great visual effects.
X3: Good visual effects, but is showing it's age.

ED: Multi-player. Though the implementation leaves much to be desired.
X3: No multi-player whatsoever.

ED: High quality cockpits help you feel immersed, especially with a Rift.
X3: No cockpits by default, but can be modded to have the cockpits from X2, though they aren't nearly as good as ED's.

ED: Feels much more like a simulation, with much better physics.
X3: Feels a bit more arcadey.

ED: The heat and stealth system is pretty cool.
X3: Nothing like this exists.

ED: The feeling of emptiness in space is real.
X3: Feels overpopulated. Does anyone even live on those planets anymore?


Cons


X3: ~150 flyable ships
ED: ~10 flyable ships

X3: Dozens of vastly different stations per sector.
ED: Just a couple of very similar stations per sector.

X3: Every solar system feels vastly different, and has different music.
ED: Every solar system feels exactly the same, boring.

X3: Can use accumulated credits to actually build your own stations and create your own business, or venture on the stock market, or hire wingmen, or create an entire army that follows you around.
ED: Can't do anything AT ALL with your credits except by more ships, a loop that makes no sense.

X3: Excellent single player experience, with many different things to do, all of which are viable.
ED: Boring and tedious single player experience with only a handful of things to do, with few being viable.

X3: A variety of alien life, when you received a message saying that the Xenon or Khaak are invading a sector, it's an "oh crap!" moment.
ED: Nothing like that exists, just faceless humans fighting for credits so that they can continue their endless ship upgrade loop.

X3: Can mod and script the crap out of it, and we all know how great modding is, just ask GTA IV or Skyrim.
ED: Unsure of if mods are even possible given the server-sided nature of the game.

X3: The faction system is simplified, but better. You have a trade rank, a combat rank, and a ranking with all the alien races. Every alien race has a plethora of ships that look and feel unique to their race, and you can only purchase better ones once you have ranked up with that race.
ED: Convoluted faction system, every solar system has five factions that have no personality whatsoever. Do I join "Styx First" or "Styx Organization" and even if I did, there is little to no gameplay effect from it.


I could go on an on but from my experience playing literally 500 hours of X3, and now roughly 150 hours of ED, I can say that ED feels like a more "modern" and simplified game. It lacks in all the stuff I have come to love from X3. It isn't redefining the genre by any means. Single-player replayability is almost non-existent. This brings up my biggest flaw with the game: So let's say that I DON'T want to buy an Anaconda. Let's say that the Viper is my favorite ship and that's all I wanted. So I trade up until I can afford a Cobra, so that I can do some trading runs until I have about a million credits, which would takes roughly 3-4 days, then sell the Cobra, buy my Viper, and outfit it to the max with the money I made trading from Aulin to Styx, which is right at the starting point. Now what? I've got my fully decked Viper... and? Go bounty hunting? Why? Trade? How, I have a cargo rack of 4, and even if it were bigger, what's the point? Credits have no use other than to buy ships and upgrades, and since I have the ship that I want, there is literally nothing else left to do. In comparison, when you play X3, say you get enough credits in your Argon Buster to upgrade to an Argon Nova and that's the ship that you want to keep. Well, you can then use any credits that you make to buy ANOTHER ship, and have him follow you around, protect you, or you can send him off galaxies away. When your done outfitting that ship? Buy a trading ship, and give him a route to buy and sell for you. Made a ton of money? Buy a carrier, and then dock your Nova on the carrier you just bought. Tired of buying ships? Build a mining station. Now build the refinery for your mining station. Now build the manufacturing station for your mining station. And so on and so on. You can NEVER have too much money in X3 because there are so many money sinks, all of which are fun and engaging to participate in. Meanwhile in ED, I have no reason to leave the station. Let's be honest with ourselves, ED is currently heavy on grinding. The more I play ED, the more I want to play X3. Yeah I know what you are thinking, "beta". Well we will see if the final product will actually live up to the expectations.

The reason I brought up X3 as a comparison, despite it's lack of multiplayer is simply because I think people need to start getting used to thinking of and reviewing ED more as a solo or co-op experience. There is a very serious issue that needs bringing up in regards to player saturation vs universe size at launch. Space sims are only just recently breaking out of their niche and hitting the mainstream, but they are no where nearly as close to the quantity of players in traditional MMO's, RPG's and FPS games. With the absolutely ludicrous amount of sectors that will be added via procedural generation, it is highly likely that after a few months post release, everyone will be so far spread out that human contact will be uncommon. Then there is the fact that sectors in the current beta, despite having 15+ players all in the same place, still have so little interaction player interaction that you may as well be playing solo. Now imagine if it takes 5-6 jumps to encounter just one player. This scenario is an almost certainty and will only get worse with time, assuming you aren't camping the starting sectors of course. Thankfully it's unlikely to reach the levels of solidarity in No Man's Sky. Ultimately, it's inevitable that you will be spending some time alone at some point, so the features in ED *must* be able to support that, it won't be able to use multiplayer as a crutch for much longer.
 
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A lot of good points, but how how X3 on launch? Also, biggest point I disagree with:

"X3: Every solar system feels vastly different, and has different music.
ED: Every solar system feels exactly the same, boring."

X3 systems looked like bad paintings to me, even though different it was horrible and the control system is a complete joke, they even put TrackIr on, but it was pointless.

Hopefully Elite will grow with more content as a lot of other good points, although it won't be thankfully X3.
 
I think you have some valid points. ED will have to offer much more player involment to succeed in the long run. Right now, the only thing aside from getting money is the Eranin conflict but it feels extremely static. I truely hope that they will implement their plans (systems fighting each other, player causing new gold rushs, dynamically evolving systems) in a way that players have some sense of impact. I would also love to see some more races. So far, I only heard about those Targoids which seem to be quite hostile... Sigh... Yes, it is nice to have a big, threatening, enemy but there would be so much more possibilites for interactions with alien lifeforms. Anyone who has ever seen some star trek will instantly know what I mean. Also, player bases or carriers would be downright amazing.
 
X3 is about building an empire. ED is about building a reputation. And many of the mechanics needed to build that reputation are not in the game yet. There are only very basic missions at the moment. There are no persistent NPCs. There has been only one injected even in the game so far (the war in Eranin) and it was somewhat forgotten in favor of other newly implemented mechanics which need testing. As soon as all those things will be implemented in the game, getting ships and outfitting them will no longer be an objective, it will be the means to an end, and the purpose of the game will be a different one.
 

X-Rebirth has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

X3 is about building an empire. ED is about building a reputation. And many of the mechanics needed to build that reputation are not in the game yet. There are only very basic missions at the moment. There are no persistent NPCs. There has been only one injected even in the game so far (the war in Eranin) and it was somewhat forgotten in favor of other newly implemented mechanics which need testing. As soon as all those things will be implemented in the game, getting ships and outfitting them will no longer be an objective, it will be the means to an end, and the purpose of the game will be a different one.

I hope so. I want this game to give me a reason to play it.
 
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X-Rebirth has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Dammit, I'd almost forgotten about that travesty.


I loved X3, especially Terran Conflict. I've clocked up hundreds of hours playing that game, even completing the Hub mission plots, and gaining the Player HQ. It's glorious. hoever, in X3, once you've built up your space-kingdom, and got a fleet of cap ships all loaded with M3/4/5 fighter support craft, it kind of lost it's appeal. I know that you can get mods that scripted in other cap ships for battling against, but then the FPS in a sector would just drop to about 1 frame per minute. All the X games kind of lose their charm once you have almost infinite cash, ships and factories, and I hated the jump gate system.
 
For me, since the LAST X they brought, this game is DEAD for me, what a mess it was!

Now ED, later maybe SC, love space sims (X series ruined themselfes with their last patatoe)
 
Yeah X-Rebirth(X-) was/is a complete mess, there is no denying that, just ignore it exists. X3 Albion Prelude, with XRM and a couple of mods to fix the nagging remaining issues is just absolutely glorious, but performance could have been better. I sincerely hope that ED can compare in terms of things to actually do besides making money and buying ships with it. ED and SC are making space sims mainstream so there are many people who haven't had the pleasure to play some of the older games like Freespace, Freelancer, X series etc. To those people: Play X3:AP with XRM and you will gain some perspective.
 
I think you do raise some interesting points, but personally I found the X series of games to have exactly the fault you are concerned might affect ED - boredom. I played the life out of the first 3 games in that series - hundreds of hours - and in each case I eventually got to the point where I just lost interest.

I'm not saying ED is immune to this, on the contrary, it's a problem for all sandbox games, but I wouldn't praise the X games to the skies just on the basis of being able to buy more things than ships.

There are several essential things for any sandbox game, IMHO. First is depth of simulation - there has to be a rich back-story. Then there has to be many activities to undertake which are mutually exclusive so that in order to specialize you need to sacrifice a different path, and finally a world of persistent NPCs who form the background society. Those elements allow for emergent gameplay. ED will have all of these (at least they were promised). Interestingly, the X games really only have the first element which is why I eventually tired of them. You always follow the same path and there is always the eventual goal of building the huge trade empire.

The other major thing with a sandbox game is to just enjoy the moments and forget about the goal. I guarantee you that for every "seasoned" gamer who becomes frustrated by the lack of goal-directed play in ED there will be hundreds of more casual players who will thoroughly enjoy just flying around in space for decades to come.

This game has an interesting dynamic in that it is comparatively difficult to get into - you need to learn to fly the ship well and practice the skills you learn - however once that hurdle is past it is actually an ideal game to pick up and play for half an hour at a time. Do a little mining, take a trade run or two, jump two systems further out and go exploring, etc. There is no pressure to achieve a specified goal, and that will make it very popular with players who can only afford smaller chunks of time devoted to play.
 
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I think you do raise some interesting points, but personally I found the X series of games to have exactly the fault you are concerned might affect ED - boredom. I played the life out of the first 3 games in that series - hundreds of hours - and in each case I eventually got to the point where I felt there was no challenge or interest left.

I'm not saying ED is immune to this, on the contrary, it's a problem for all sandbox games, but I wouldn't praise the X games to the skies just on the basis of being able to buy more things than ships.

There are several essential things for any sandbox game, IMHO. First is depth of simulation - there has to be a rich back-story. Then there has to be many activities to undertake which are mutually exclusive so that in order to specialize you need to sacrifice a different path, and finally a world of persistent NPCs who form the background society. Those elements allow for emergent gameplay. ED will have all of these (at least they were promised). Interestingly, the X games really only have the first element which is why I eventually tired of them. You always follow the same path and there is always the eventual goal of building the huge trade empire.

The other major thing with a sandbox game is to just enjoy the moments and forget about the goal. I guarantee you that for every "seasoned" gamer who becomes frustrated by the lack of goal-directed play in ED there will be hundreds of more casual players who will thoroughly enjoy just flying around in space for decades to come.

This game has an interesting dynamic in that it is comparatively difficult to get into - you need to learn to fly the ship well and practice the skills you learn - however once that hurdle is past it is actually an ideal game to pick up and play for half an hour at a time. Do a little mining, take a trade run or two, jump two systems further out and go exploring, etc. There is no pressure to achieve a specified goal, and that will make it very popular with players who can only afford smaller chunks of time devoted to play.

I don't agree with you on some points. X3 wasn't just about buying more ships, or building a trade empire. You could do everything that ED has, but better. If your sole purpose was to befriend all of the alien races and get the highest rank with them so that you had access to all of their equipment, ships, and missions, you could do that. If you wanted to explore all the different sectors (of which there were a lot) and lay down a satellite network so that you can keep an eye on sectors while you were far away, you could do that too. If you wanted simply to be a pirate, and harass pilots until they eject so that you can steal and then salvage their ships, you could do that as well. ED has none of these features, NONE. If you played hundreds of hours of X3 before you got bored, then the game did it's job. ED on the other hand, gets boring once you start hitting double digits.

The individual NPC's in X3 had no personality, BUT the races themselves were loaded with personality. Why do I care if an NPC in ED is persistent, how does that affect you or enrich gameplay in any way, shape or form? So what if you saw "John Boone" in Styx, and now you saw him again in Wyrd. In fact, how do you even know it's the exact same pilot, and not just the procedural generation giving him that name? How about killing Glory Charger 500 times? That's hardly my idea of emergent gameplay. I'd rather hear a Teladi NPC in X3 say "No more profitsssss" when he gets shot down, that's personality. If all people wanted was just to fly around in space and have nothing to do, then there's a game called Space Engine that does it far better than ED, or anything else for that matter. You've also basically admitted that this game is for casuals.
 
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Why are you so rude?

As you say its a forum people are entitled to reply, wether it agrees with you or not.

No need to bite peoples heads off, because they go slightly off topic.

The main diffirence between elite and x3 is THEY ARE DIFFIREN|T GAMES.

Elite has always been about trading and exploring, in no versions has there ever been building bases launching satelites, to watch areas for you.

Its about going around doing whatever you feel like doing.

Elite dangerous is basically the same elite back in 1984 but with a few more bells and whistles.

I dont get why people are so adamant on comparing elite to other generes, the only thing Elite has in common with the games people compare it against is that its in space, any similarities pretty much end there, there is no story, no goal, only get the elite status, in any way you can.
 
Okay, here's my capsule comparison after spending some times with the X games:

Elite is about flying a spaceship, hands on stick, in a Galaxy that feels huge and interesting. I have some personal gripes about how they've done the flight model, but they haven't completely killed the feeling of 6dof movement and at least a taste of flying fast, even if it's capped off. This game does the best job since the I-War series of giving us a feeling that space is mind-numbingly huge.

The X series feels like flying a cow of a ship through molasses, in a tiny circumscribed area in each sector. Of all the space games I've ever played (and I've played most of them), the feeling of flight is the absolute slowest in this series, probably due to the very limited scale of each area you can visit. Yes, it's great for empire building if you like spreadsheet management. And some of the ship designs are gorgeous, from the outside. But it's terrible from the hands-on-stick flight perspective, and that's what I'm interested in, with a game like this.
 
If you played hundreds of hours of X3 before you got bored, then the game did it's job. ED on the other hand, gets boring once you start hitting double digits.

For you perhaps, but not for everyone :)

Why do I care if an NPC in ED is persistent, how does that affect you or enrich gameplay in any way, shape or form?

Read the DDA http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7494

You've also basically admitted that this game is for casuals.

"Admitted" - wow, sounds like I'm on trial now :D What I said was that ED is ideal for casuals who take the time to learn the complexity of the gameplay to start with. That in no way changes its attraction for hardcore players or gamers of any other type.
 
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I got into X2 and X3 in the long dark years waiting for Elite 4.

I played them a lot, and I had a good time, but it always seemed so crowded with ships and factories that it never gave me the "space" feeling.

Now that Elite is back, space is big again :)
 
I have all the X games. My comparison:

X3 - boring, overcomplicated, hard to get into, around 2 hours playing before I start hating it with a passion.
ED - awesome experience, great immersion, intuitive interface/control, everything seems right, around 150 hours so far and it's only beta.

I guess maybe X3 is not for me. Don't really care, very happy with Elite.
 
I got into X2 and X3 in the long dark years waiting for Elite 4.

I played them a lot, and I had a good time, but it always seemed so crowded with ships and factories that it never gave me the "space" feeling.

Now that Elite is back, space is big again :)

I have to agree with you there, X3 was way overpopulated.
I like the FEELING of emptiness, but I wouldn't want it to be truly empty like ED is at the moment.
Hopefully that changes and FD gets the "emptiness" balance correct, because it sure wasn't in the X-Series.
A happy medium would be great. Anyways I put that on my pros and cons because it's a good way of thinking.

I have all the X games. My comparison:


X3 - boring, overcomplicated, hard to get into, around 2 hours playing before I start hating it with a passion.
ED - awesome experience, great immersion, intuitive interface/control, everything seems right, around 150 hours so far and it's only beta.


I guess maybe X3 is not for me. Don't really care, very happy with Elite.

X3 has a far bigger, even astronomically bigger learning curve than ED does in regards to gameplay mechanics.
ED has a bigger learning curve when it comes to actually piloting the ship and docking.

Some people will prefer one over the other, though I feel that once you get past the learning curve on both games, X3 has much more to offer (for now).
If you only played it for 2 hours before giving up, you haven't even scratched the coating on the surface and you are being very unfair with your opinion.
I'm not trying to say that people should quit playing ED and go play X3. You should definitely own and play both, along with Starpoint Gemini 2, Limit Theory, and dare I say even Star Citizen? :p As long as you have the funds!

"Admitted" - wow, sounds like I'm on trial now :D What I said was that ED is ideal for casuals who take the time to learn the complexity of the gameplay to start with. That in no way changes its attraction for hardcore players or gamers of any other type.

Hah, sorry didn't mean to put you on the spot like that :p
 
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