A Game At Odds with Itself and Why

[BlackOps]

That's wonderful and I am happy for you. It doesn't mean, though, that other people don't have valid criticisms of the game.

Understood, and I agree that others have valid criticisms. I was just responding to what someone said. Something to the effect of a game that satisfies noone. I happen to be satisfied with my purchase. There's probably half a million like me.

OK, not like me. I'm one of kind. You know what I mean though.

 

[Enderby]

Gotta rep you for that.

 

[Bacalao]

Claiming to be able to shoot down an argument if you were so inclined and actually shooting down the argument are two very different things. You might as well have not posted at all for all the impact your expression of disagreement had. You're perfectly welcome to point out any perceived flaws in the OP's reasoning here and apparently able if you're coming back to post again. So go on then, what's stopping you?

Apathy...

 

[BlackOps]

Gotta rep you for that.

Back at ya.

 

[Loskene]

Apathy...

Whatever you say pal

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

Understood, and I agree that others have valid criticisms. I was just responding to what someone said. Something to the effect of a game that satisfies noone. I happen to be satisfied with my purchase. There's probably half a million like me.

OK, not like me. I'm one of kind. You know what I mean though.

I'm curious. What part of the game do you find completely satisfying and without fault? What do you do when you play? Pirate, mine, explore, trade, bounty hunt, missions? I'm not being sarcastic because I really want to know. Maybe those of us that find fault with the game are doing it wrong.

 

[BlackOps]

I'm curious. What part of the game do you find completely satisfying and without fault? What do you do when you play? Pirate, mine, explore, trade, bounty hunt, missions? I'm not being sarcastic because I really want to know. Maybe those of us that find fault with the game are doing it wrong.

I've been called a 5th columnist and garden variety anarchist. I'm flattered, but I'm more of a leaf in the wind. I blaze my own trail, so to speak. Seeing the effects is nice. I like to see which way the wind is blowing and add a puff in the same direction with a little influence to it's course.

You see, there's a satisfaction in playing the game they way it was designed instead of trying to make it conform to my desires. I change my desires to match what the game is already providing. If you've ever studied judo, you'll know that a tiny push can help an opponent fall on his own. You just use his own momentum against him. The game plays the same way.

 

[tawittle]

After being part of the Elite community for over a year at this point, I feel I can safely say that all of FD's senior developers/management have not played video games since the 80s and 90s.

it almost feels as if ED is an old fashioned game with fancy new graphics

OP is right: FD needs to talk to their community. Not based on some arbitrary "triple elite" group status. Not based on how many hours we spent on the 1984 game. Not based on private group circle jerking.

there are so many awful, anti-fun mechanics in game (bad mission spawns, 20 minute supercruise flights,non-stop pointless interdictions, 20 jump trips to go 100 ly and the list goes on and on.) it should be no wonder why most people quit Elite far before they get to 20 hours: the game is too slow, and too hard to learn. If FD wants to have a game that still exists once the competition emerges then they have to get serious about giving the community what we want.

Lots of pvpers are quitting and open play feels more empty than ever before, I know the average '84 gamer doesn't care about pvp but there has never been a successful multiplayer game that does not have a competitive scene. FD just give us better instancing. Möbius can get 100 CMDRs in private and pvp groups can't even get more than 12 people together at the CG? Instancing is totally messed up and it's pretty clear to me FD is intentionally breaking CG instancing so that the non-'84 crowd can't have fun.

I'm already to heavily invested in this game to quit but FD needs to understand that they are losing their core player base (not talking about me, talking about the people I play with) is vanishing, and if they don't start giving us things like more profitable missions, easier travel, and requesting instancing priority at CG (not private group) then pretty soon FD is going to find they have been forgotten.

 

[Kristov]

I'm curious. What part of the game do you find completely satisfying and without fault? What do you do when you play? Pirate, mine, explore, trade, bounty hunt, missions? I'm not being sarcastic because I really want to know. Maybe those of us that find fault with the game are doing it wrong.

I can't speak for AntiFed, but for myself, it's being able to indulge in my bigotry against stupidity, the game really lets me do that and pays for it no less.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's wonderful and I am happy for you. It doesn't mean, though, that other people don't have valid criticisms of the game.

Understood, and I agree that others have valid criticisms. I was just responding to what someone said. Something to the effect of a game that satisfies noone. I happen to be satisfied with my purchase. There's probably half a million like me.

OK, not like me. I'm one of kind. You know what I mean though.

Gotta rep you for that.

Back at ya.

Stereo repped for setting a good example.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

I've been called a 5th columnist and garden variety anarchist. I'm flattered, but I'm more of a leaf in the wind. I blaze my own trail, so to speak. Seeing the effects is nice. I like to see which way the wind is blowing and add a puff in the same direction with a little influence to it's course.

You see, there's a satisfaction in playing the game they way it was designed instead of trying to make it conform to my desires. I change my desires to match what the game is already providing. If you've ever studied judo, you'll know that a tiny push can help an opponent fall on his own. You just use his own momentum against him. The game plays the same way.

I can't speak for AntiFed, but for myself, it's being able to indulge in my bigotry against stupidity, the game really lets me do that and pays for it no less.

Congratulations. You both managed to respond and completely avoided the question. If that's the case, why respond at all?

 

[kilvenny]

The core of the Elite series is that you are the pilot of your ship, exploring, trading and fighting your way across the galaxy and as an individual you have little if any impact upon that galaxy. Elite Dangerous extends that to a multiplayer game in a single galaxy and therefore the collective impact of multiple players should have some visible impact.

Rather than focusing on new mechanics, the pieces that support that framework need to be developed and made into a coherent whole.

In order to provide "content" we have these psuedo random Nav beacons, poi's and space signals. The mission system attempts to provide the player with some sort of quest framework. Wings, groups, player factions, Powerplay and the back ground simulation all attempt to provide some sort of collective framework and impact. Whilst each of these elements has its place, the fundamental problem is that there is no cohesive whole where the elements are connected and follow a logical and automated structure that enables the collective will to show its impact.

eg
Nav Beacon should be the point a player enters a system. Then the nav beacon has a purpose and the ships at the Nav beacon make sense.
When I commit to a power I should also commit to to a faction or be independent. If I belong to a faction, if I enter a system that faction shows as a system faction.
Powerplay transitions should happen when a set of criteria are reached, not at a collective PP roll over.

My take is that FD internally have not yet resolved how far ED is going to go from its single player roots to a multiplayer experience where the player groups become ascendant. Since launch we are seeing more multiplayer stuff added, but its not clear how far that is going to be taken. 2.1 could be a landmark release if they connect system factions to missions and add the persistent faction npc's, because that will be making two currently disparate elements fit together. Hopefully over time they will add more to make it fit together.

 

[Sysmon]

I disagree, I would discribe it as a game at odds with some of its player.

I'd describe some of the players of the game as odd!

S

 

[magillag]

Just found another thing to do:

Figure out what the he** this means, and try to find my own:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnknownArtefact/comments/3zooro/perfect_viewing_angle/



The mysteries literally do not stop in this game....

 

[BlackOps]

Congratulations. You both managed to respond and completely avoided the question. If that's the case, why respond at all?

I'll take your congratulations as a compliment. Thank you.

I didn't avoid the question. Just look at the workings of the game. If the game is going one direction, change yours. If you want details, let's say take powerplay for an example. If I like one power over another and that other power has a bad system that's getting close to fortified or prepared, I'll join the enemy power and push that system. If I see a combat zone that's stagnant that might have a faction that I like better than the other, I join and fight for that faction. Or I might find one that I don't like and fight against it.

I've smuggled illicit goods and made a lot of money. I've done PVP and got bored. Sure, there are those that like it and I leave it to them. I play what I want to play and make a shipload of credits doing it.

I hope that clear it up.

And to come clean, I actually haven't spent a dime on this game. I was given a Steam gift by my uncle a while back. He then gave me another account that came from directly the Frontier store. I'm not rich, you see. My uncle, however, is pretty well off and he plays the game with me. That makes it even more fun than if I just did this on my own.

 

[Sysmon]

it almost feels as if ED is an old fashioned game with fancy new graphics

Yes! A game looking as if it is from the golden age of gaming, but with updated graphics. I've been going through so much fluff over the last 15-20 years; games that are basically interactive movies, games that hold your hand, give you convenient skill-ups when there's a boss battle coming. Games that allow you to conveniently zip around what was supposed to be sprawling game worlds, but ends up making you into a charter tourist.

Lovely stuff. I hope they keep it as it is. In my opinion, they could even make travelling a bit harder (or profitable travelling a bit slower). If the core gamers of ED are people that want WoW/ESO/CoD in space, hopefully they will go away or even better, get their minds opened to space simulations with MMO elements like this one, and learn to like it for what it is.

S

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

I'll take your congratulations as a compliment. Thank you.

I didn't avoid the question. Just look at the workings of the game. If the game is going one direction, change yours. If you want details, let's say take powerplay for an example. If I like one power over another and that other power has a bad system that's getting close to fortified or prepared, I'll join the enemy power and push that system. If I see a combat zone that's stagnant that might have a faction that I like better than the other, I join and fight for that faction. Or I might find one that I don't like and fight against it.

I've smuggled illicit goods and made a lot of money. I've done PvP and got bored. Sure, there are those that like it and I leave it to them. I play what I want to play and make a shipload of credits doing it.

I hope that clear it up.

And to come clean, I actually haven't spent a dime on this game. I was given a Steam gift by my uncle a while back. He then gave me another account that came from directly the Frontier store. I'm not rich, you see. My uncle, however, is pretty well off and he plays the game with me. That makes it even more fun than if I just did this on my own.

Ok, fair enough.

 

[Kristov]

Congratulations. You both managed to respond and completely avoided the question. If that's the case, why respond at all?

Did I mention the forums let me do that as well?

I enjoy playing the game for what it is, same as AntiFed does. I also don't see where either of us said or implied it was a perfect game without need of work. Matter of fact, in this very thread, I agreed that certains areas need work right now, and I'm withholding judgement on fixes for areas even David Braben says need work until I see the results of FD's efforts to that end.

I can't honestly think of any game I've ever played, designed, worked on, modded or heard of that was perfect, ever. Pray tell, what perfect game have played?

 

[Lobstris]

there are so many awful, anti-fun mechanics in game (bad mission spawns, 20 minute supercruise flights,non-stop pointless interdictions, 20 jump trips to go 100 ly and the list goes on and on.) it should be no wonder why most people quit Elite far before they get to 20 hours: the game is too slow, and too hard to learn. If FD wants to have a game that still exists once the competition emerges then they have to get serious about giving the community what we want.

OK. May I ask what's your solution to having space flight take time in a 1-to-1 scale replica of space? What's your solution to having crossing large distances taking a number of jumps? How would you make travel easier? If the solution you propose is a 'teleport anywhere I want button' or 'all ships have 10x the jump range' then I'm afraid I'm going to say that we as a community don't want that. Fortunately, as we're both individuals neither of us represent the views of the entire community. [Now an argument for micro-jumps and/or (interdictable) autopilot I could understand ].

Instancing is totally messed up and it's pretty clear to me FD is intentionally breaking CG instancing so that the non-'84 crowd can't have fun.

Whilst I agree that Elite's instancing mechanism isn't the best, and is probably the root cause of a lot of the poor AI, undercooked features and shallow missions we currently see, to suggest that they are deliberately breaking things to annoy the 'non-'84 crowd' is... erm... far-fetched. I humbly suggest that if they wanted to please the '84 crowd, and spite everyone else, there would be single-player offline, many more DDA features, and Powerplay and CQC would be mere pipe dreams of the young whippersnappers in FDev's office right now.

 

[tarragon]

For what's it worth, i agree with op. Han Solo lives in next to no profit universe, where he makes money, drinks till money are gone and goes on making money again. In Elite, we don't drink, we grind. Surplus accumulates and it has no purpose. Shame that no journalist caught him on his when he was pitching it.

Every game deals with endgame. Braben thought he could avoid it. (Endgame everywhere is, more or less, guild raiding).