A Note on NPC Time to Kill

rrobes

R
Recently turned up in Mudhrid to participate in a CG (haven't been in one for quite a while).

The activity was the same but seemed to me that bullet sponging/time to kill (TTK) was lengthier than remembered.

It was mentioned in chat and confirmed by my scanner that some the NPCs were sporting Prismatics; their loadouts and the ability to fly with 0% modules, led to to the extended times.

Even snipping various NPC modules past 0% would not stop the NPCs from flying/firing and recharging their shields. The most effective kill method was just batter them until their hulls went to 0%. For fun, I tried to snipe a Clipper's pontoon engine, hit after hit with 4 rails and 3 MCs at close range it wouldn't go below 72%.

The TTK favors wing action, the NPC bullet sponging and TTK is reasonable when you have a wing acting in concert. When going at it alone, TTK becomes a chore.

After completing a 48 ship mission solo (for a relatively poor payout of 9 million plus the bonds), I felt that it wasn't worth my time, won't return to this CG.

My ship was a fully grown well-armed Corvette which for years has been used successfully in many CGs.

Maybe satiation is setting in after a long run with the game.
 

Danieros

D
With the 9 million payout it seems that you took the mission while still neutral to the faction. Consider first reaching allied before going for the massacre grinding for payouts. It gives a really big multiplier.
 

Trollymctrollerson

T
Im right there with you man. The thought of going out to massacre dozens of armored punching bags is about as exciting as scrubbing toilets. I wont even take massacre missions over 30 targets anymore because by the time i get to 25 im almost ready to just hold the power button in on the PC and go do something else. Its a major contributing factor to my waning interest in the game.
 

rrobes

R
Missed the point, hence the title, know about being allied and such.

Don’t care ‘bout the money, the issue is TTK, the time it takes to make a kill is the factor that pushes the task to feel like a chore.

Trolly is dead center on-point.
 

Danieros

D
Trollymctrollerson said:
Im right there with you man. The thought of going out to massacre dozens of armored punching bags is about as exciting as scrubbing toilets. I wont even take massacre missions over 30 targets anymore because by the time i get to 25 im almost ready to just hold the power button in on the PC and go do something else. Its a major contributing factor to my waning interest in the game.
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The solo war massacre count is definitely weird. They can go up to something like 90 kills, which makes for a very unreasonable completion time for it even if you disregard the 24 hour timer for the mission and consider the entire conflict duration instead. Wing war massacres have the same numbers, but pay more per kill.

It's almost as if the solo massacre missions were supposed to have similar numbers to the ones from pirate missions - which would be a much more reasonable number. Something that starts as low as like 4-7 kills and tops out at about 30 kills. This way you could reasonably pick all of the missions available and expect to complete more than 1 of them.

rrobes said:
Missed the point, hence the title, know about being allied and such.

Don’t care ‘bout the money, the issue is TTK, the time it takes to make a kill is the factor that pushes the task to feel like a chore.

Trolly is dead center on-point.
Click to expand...

TTK of CZ ships is mostly about going for the power plant and hitting it until it explodes. Though the small/medium ships can be actually mowed down quite quickly if you're using the best dps weapons like rail guns and frag cannons at effective range.
 

Trollymctrollerson

T
Ya the CZ npcs have been this way for awhile. I don't think anything has changed recently. Its still a slog though. I stick to pvp or trucking these days because farming the hair brained punching bags feels alot like work.
 

rrobes

R
Danieros said:
The solo war massacre count is definitely weird. They can go up to something like 90 kills, which makes for a very unreasonable completion time for it even if you disregard the 24 hour timer for the mission and consider the entire conflict duration instead. Wing war massacres have the same numbers, but pay more per kill.

It's almost as if the solo massacre missions were supposed to have similar numbers to the ones from pirate missions - which would be a much more reasonable number. Something that starts as low as like 4-7 kills and tops out at about 30 kills. This way you could reasonably pick all of the missions available and expect to complete more than 1 of them.



TTK of CZ ships is mostly about going for the power plant and hitting it until it explodes. Though the small/medium ships can be actually mowed down quite quickly if you're using the best dps weapons like rail guns and frag cannons at effective range.
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Yes, after shields down, I sniped the PPs down to zero with 4 rails (2 of them Hammers) and they flew on until the hull went to zero and then they blew up.

If FD wanted to add some spice to this whole schtick, they could add a “lucky shot” hit box that randomly causes a catastrophic explosion. Anything to vary.
 

Uchuu

Uchuu
I don't think anything has changed recently. Yesterday i cleared 3 CZ in 2 hours. The only ships with long TTK were prismatic Pythons with SCBs. Other ships go pop as usual.
I used a Chieftain with G5 OC MCs + Cytos. Not able to snipe drives and other modules has been here for a long time.
 

DaraTheNeko

DaraTheNeko
Combat zones ships are combat ships equipped for combat, so they will be a lot tougher than the usual little pirates, or even the elite pirate. And in the case of spec ops wings, they even have some engineering. From that point of view, the time to kill makes total sense in my opinion, the numbers for the hull and shields do somewhat fit. I don't see it as being too long, knowing what kind of ship I'm facing and how they are equipped, if you compare it to your own shield and hull health they are simply weak in comparison (unless your corvette isn't engineered yet).
Even the captains, fully engineered cutters, tankiest ship in the game with plenty of SCB, dies somewhat faster than a player piloted cutter would.
Because commanders aren't super hero, we simply fly ships that anyone else "could" get.

From that point of view, would you be ok taking twice as much damage, to get the TTK divided by two ?
 

Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
Twin huge SRB PAs on my Corvette means NPC shields don't last long enough for SCBs to fire (or if they do the shield is gone in the next hit anyway). Gimballed multicannons make short work finishing off anything with <20% hull or any small ships. With this setup I can clear up a high CZ solo in 15-20 minutes (same with my all PA FdL as this works just as well in highs).

Personally I'd argue that if anything these need a buff, not a nerf as there's no need for tactics in CZs, it's just find a target, shoot the target and boost away if you end up in a 1v4.

Granted, some will disagree, but there's enough people like me and enough people who wouldn't want these to change that means on balance, FDev probably have this about right.
 

metatheurgist

metatheurgist
rrobes said:
If FD wanted to add some spice to this whole schtick, they could add a “lucky shot” hit box that randomly causes a catastrophic explosion. Anything to vary.
Click to expand...
That is how it works. When the PP is at zero they are at half power and additional hits have a chance at critical and death. It's more noticeable with certain ships like Cutters, Clippers and Asps. But otherwise they have been harder to kill since the new "winnable" scenario CZs came in since they now use prismatics and have more engineering.
 

rrobes

R
So consensus is that there's no consensus, bullet sponging OK/not OK, it's fine to have 0% module readouts because they're really not at 0%, etc.

The final note I'll leave everyone with is that IMHO, just lengthening TTK is not a substitute for a pleasant game experience, seems like a band aid approach, rather than a way to a have lively combat. Maybe the NPC game mechanics just aren't able to be adjusted to behavior other than endless chaff, 0% doesn't mean 0%, "enhanced" NPC maneuver capabilities and what not.

See you in the Black.
 

CMDR DragonHorn

CMDR DragonHorn
Somehow I was sure this thread was a necro...

I've seen NPCs, particularly in CZs with Prismatics since times immemorial, and issue of NPC not dying with 0% PP is also well documented and from very long time ago. Why go for modules anyway? If you're fighting in CZ, you most definitely be running engineered ship. It should take you just a tad bit longer to melt hull than to rely on RNG with module hitting.
Personally I didn't notice NPCs being more or less spongy than usual, and I do stuff like CZ from time to time.

Consensus is strange on this one, because a lot of people acknowledge that shield meta is a little overboard, to put it mildly. But in general, population is scared to death of any changes to balance, and god forbid, shorter TTK. For the record, I'm totally not okay with any of this and would welcome any, even most drastic changes to try and shake things up a little.
 

Shadowed

Shadowed
I'll gladly take lower TTK overall, even against us. But I would also want double the active AI count for high intensity CZ.
 

bladebss

bladebss
Best hope there is no cmdr ships on the enemy team or you will find that TTK to go WAY up in comparison to the militery npcs in cz. You could proably do the whole cz in the time it would take you to kill that one player on the enemy side.

The hip point inflation sucks but woe be tide any one sugests a nerf to fix it.
 
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