A question about negative influence actions

[Yodebe]

Greetings Cmdrs.
So, if you kill clean ships belonging to a controlling faction, that counts AGAINST their influence, and reduces system security.
And if you kill wanted ships, that counts FOR the controlling faction's influence, and increases system security.

So, what happens when you kill wanted ships belonging to a controlling faction?
For or against the controlling faction?
Any ideas?
Thanks.
o7

 

[Jane Turner]

We think that the game just sees the bounty so it counts for, so long as you cash the bounty in that system

 

[Jmanis]

And if you kill wanted ships, that counts FOR the controlling faction's influence, and increases system security.

Echoing a bit what Jane said... killing wanted ships doesn't count for the controlling faction's influence.

Handing in the bounty you earn will give influence to whoever issued it (not necessarily the controller, provided other jurisdictions exist in the system). Common thought suggests killing Wanted ships won't drop that faction's influence... I personally don't agree (for reasons) but don't have any evidence to the contrary.

 

[Dissidious]

Common thought suggests killing Wanted ships won't drop that faction's influence... I personally don't agree (for reasons) but don't have any evidence to the contrary.

Yep, I don't agree as well. I also noticed that killing a lot of wanted ship of a specific faction does seem to decrease its influence. Need to gather more hard evidence though...

 

[GralAntilles]

Follow up question:

Common thought suggests killing Wanted ships won't drop that faction's influence... I personally don't agree (for reasons) but don't have any evidence to the contrary.

What is the effect killing ships in lawless jurisdiction?, e.g. a Installation controlled by an anarchy faction.

 

[Jmanis]

Follow up question:



What is the effect killing ships in lawless jurisdiction?, e.g. a Installation controlled by an anarchy faction.

That's why I don't agree... I just haven't collected any information to the contrary because <reasons>. Other things:

• What's the effect of killing a ship with an extrajurisdictional bounty, which was otherwise clean before?
• What's the effect of killing a ship which was clean, but became wanted after attacking you (Always happens with bounty hunters after my extrajurisdictionals)?
• What if the ship had a bounty, but then you crossed a lawless jurisdiction boundary? ( a rare case, but can happen)

Answers could be theorycrafted, maybe even tested. I don't have enough time though, and there's bigger fish to fry for me. Personally, I don't think the game is complex enough to make distinctions like that.

 

[Dissidious]

I just wanna share my experience with killing wanted-lawless ships in non anarchy territory. It's very anecdotal so, take it with a bit of salt. Also, would be nice if somebody could confirm this. I was in a regular, not-anarchy system (I believe it was Amaterasu). The anarchy faction owned one of those space installation. So, even though the system wasn't anarchy, the jurisdiction of the installation was "loose" and every ship in there was lawless. They all belonged to the anarchy faction. When scanned with a kill warrant scanner, they also had a hidden bounty on them. One day I decided to have some fun and kill those lawless ship. I killed quite a bit and the next day the influence of that poor anarchy faction definitely went down.

That's why I believe killing wanted ships has an effect, even though they were not regular wanted ships, they were lawless with hidden bounties...

 

[DNA-Decay]

The KWS shows up non-jurisdiction bounties and gets you more money.

The passive scan shows WANTED for the jurisdiction you are in.
Handing in those bounties increases the security and influence of the jurisdiction faction in the system where you hand them in.

Killing ships that are not WANTED in a jurisdiction is murder. Murder is measured per kill and has a negative effect on the jurisdiction faction (usually the ruler, but jurisdictions can be local to a station or surface port).

The negative effect was nerfed for 3.3 It is outweighed by the bounty effect. Dropping a faction’s influence through murder is slow and heavy work.

Killing WANTED ships does not seem to count as murder. If you collect bounties in system A and hand them in system B - system A does not lose influence.

 

[Jmanis]

Killing ships that are not WANTED in a jurisdiction is murder. Murder is measured per kill and has a negative effect on the jurisdiction faction (usually the ruler, but jurisdictions can be local to a station or surface port).

Based on this description... I'd suggest the act of destroying any ship in-isolation does nothing to hurt the owning faction's influence; that is, it doesn't matter what the status of the ship is... there is no impact on the faction who owns the destroyed ship.

Instead, what matters (and what causes the influence drop) is the accrued bounty on destroying a clean ship, since it's the jurisdiction's faction which gets the negative effect.

Again, that's just my read of that... making emphasis there because there's two other cases where such a system wouldn't make sense:

• Spec Ops and Wetwork missions tend to send you into zones controlled by your own faction, targetting other factions. That would be bizzare if the work hurt your own progress. because you targeted other ships in your own jurisdiction.
• It wouldn't make sense in Anarchy systems. That suggests killing rando ships in an anarchy system would have no effect at all. Even if my interpretation were untrue, that would still mean killing rando clean ships in an Anarchy jurisdiction would hurt the Anarchy faction, rather than the faction who owned the ship, which would defeat the purpose of an Anarchy system.

So, that still doesn't sound right to me. Unfortunately I don't have the capacity to test like in "the good old days" so to speak :/

 

[BaddMongo]

Killing ships that are not WANTED in a jurisdiction is murder. Murder is measured per kill and has a negative effect on the jurisdiction faction (usually the ruler, but jurisdictions can be local to a station or surface port).

I think it only matters to which faction the NPC ships you murder belong.

If you do targeted attacks against only ships belonging to 1 faction present in a system which is not also the controlling faction, in my experience as long as you evade the subsequent system security police response after a hit, it makes no noticeable difference to the controlling factions influence, only the influence % of the targeted faction whose ships you are actually destroying will drop (no matter where it happens, nav beacon, interdiction, USS, other).

Sure it will be the controlling faction in the system who issue the bounty on you, but as long as you are leaving their ships and their system security police alone their influence in system or your reputation with the controlling faction will not actually drop, but your reputation with the targeted faction will quickly become hostile after repeated killings.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Dropping a faction’s influence through murder is slow and heavy work.

Not always. Large systems with lots of traffic yes, but backwaters or places with little traffic its brilliant.

 

[BaddMongo]

Not always. Large systems with lots of traffic yes, but backwaters or places with little traffic its brilliant.

We have seen the same, like everything else the effect is largely dependent on the population of the system.

In a low population system > 50,000 we have seen a single murder can account for up to -0.5% shift in influence

Where as in high population agriculture system with 1 Billion + you would probably need to kill at least 20+ for the same effect.

 

[Rubbernuke]

We have seen the same, like everything else the effect is largely dependent on the population of the system.

In a low population system > 50,000 we have seen a single murder can account for up to -0.5% shift in influence

Where as in high population agriculture system with 1 Billion + you would probably need to kill at least 20+ for the same effect.

With no traffic, about 60 kills will net you about 0.5% shift in a bil pop system. 20 kills is more for the 1- 8 million bracket. Normally I kill about 10, see the next tick what happens and adjust. Its a bit like cooking, you simmer and add salt and pepper as needed. If you have a wing or a squadron doing this then its fun times ahead, just watch out for the ATR thresholds

 

[DNA-Decay]

just watch out for the ATR thresholds

I have never heard the ATR called "thresholds" before. I personally have other names for them.


Just to clarify - you guys are talking about post 3.3?
My only real experience with high volume murder was shifting a 25Bn population against opposition before 3.3.
Pretty sure the effect was nerfed somewhat since then.
[A year later and I still find antennae and amplifier parts stuck in the thruster intakes]

Spoiler

 

[Rubbernuke]

I have never heard the ATR called "thresholds" before. I personally have other names for them.


Just to clarify - you guys are talking about post 3.3?
My only real experience with high volume murder was shifting a 25Bn population against opposition before 3.3.
Pretty sure the effect was nerfed somewhat since then.
[A year later and I still find antennae and amplifier parts stuck in the thruster intakes]

Spoiler

Indeed, post 3.3. The easiest way to check is to do it, and see what happens to the influence. Since I live in the backwaters most systems around me are in the 5 -10 million range or small outposts. Traffic permitting (which is what makes murder harder) it works well. And as long as you know what sec level you are in, and can count you'll never see ATR.