A short tale of how FD lost another paying customer.

[Tel Prydain]

Great story, OP. Funny you bring it up, though....
You see, the other day my mate came and played Battlefield 1 with me. The first couple of weeks were the standard amazement of how great the game looked, "OMG I'm living WW1". This lasted for two weeks, he then asked me what else was there to do.... He had done all the mission types, run 5hrs of campaign, shot up rush maps in a plane, driven a tank and done lots of deathmatch while watching CrunchyRoll. All the core "Content"
It was then i explained it to him, that he has experience pretty much all Battlefield 1 has to offer and all that is left is to repeat which ever task/tasks he found the most interesting to rank up. Or try and RP something enough to make it interesting. I had mentioned that if he level right up he could prestige and start again.

And a few weeks ago a mate came and played Street Fighter 4 with me. After two weeks he asked me what else there was to do, and I had to tell him all you do is punch people in a face.

And a few months ago a mate came and play Sim City with me. After two weeks I had to tell him all you do is build cities....


Real talk... all games are focused around a core game concept. How much you get out of a game depends on how much you enjoy competitive FPS combat, beat 'em ups or strategy planning. In Elite if the core of flying a ship isn't enough to hook you, you'll play it and then move on.
And you know what? That's okay. I played BF1 for a month. I played Simcity for about two months. And then I moved on. And that's cool. My decision to move on from those games in no way invalidates the choices of those who choose to play Simcity for a year, or spend months perfecting their FPS skills in Battlefield... they're welcome to their fun. Likewise, you 'friend' moving on doesn't in any way mean that there is a systemic issue with Elite.

Now, there are clearly issues with Elite that need to be addressed. Bug, Crime and punishment, deeper exploration mechanics, etc.
But in my view, each addition to the game is filling it out. Passenger missions are huge for me (especially ones that take you geysers or other interesting locations), and in 2.3 we see chained missions - the first step in allowing personalized, procedurally generated narratives.
Don't get me wrong... I wish they'd hurry the hell up... but they're getting there. And while there's a place for this feedback I'd love to see it in one thread, rather than a new post every two days.

 

[Tactical Tree]

Bluntly: we don't have to justify to you why we like the game. It may not even be possible, subjectivity being what it is.


Still waiting on that apology, by the way.

I'm not asking about justifying whether you like the game or not. Again your trouble with comprehension what I write comes to light. We're talking about lack of depth here.

What apology, by the way?

 

[Ian Skippy]

I don't know where that comes from, where did you pull it from? It's certainly not what I'm thinking. I'm open to discussion and change of view, but so far all you've provided is "Game is deep I don't care what others say", and failed to provide ANY examples. Am I supposed to change my view based on your liking it?

Now that's hypocrisy isn't it? Remember "mine is the only righteous way of thinking and you better agree"?

Your first post suggested an 'you must prove you are correct in having fun', or at least thats how it read to me. In any case, as an example: the way flight model of each ship, loadout variations and engineering interact with each other. Recently someone posted his modded ultra-speed Viper mk3 combat interceptor build. On paper (coriolis) it was much faster, more agile and had more DPS. In practice, my Viper was faster, more agile and with more DPS. That discrepancy was caused by how the specific approach he and I used impact specifically the Viper, based on among others:

1) ENG pip ratio
2) Relative weight of PD to overall ship weight
3) Possible range on engine performance curve

These are all unique to each ship. So you first have to define what performance you need from a given ship, then determine how the properties work for that specific ship and come up with a combination of loadout and engineering that gets the most out of your options. To me, that is a fair amount of depth, considering that at this point we havent left the hangar yet.

 

[DukeIronHand]

I don't know where that comes from, where did you pull it from? It's certainly not what I'm thinking. I'm open to discussion and change of view, but so far all you've provided is "Game is deep I don't care what others say", and failed to provide ANY examples. Am I supposed to change my view based on your liking it?

Now that's hypocrisy isn't it? Remember "mine is the only righteous way of thinking and you better agree"?

Uhh...I did not wish to change your mind, hear your opinion, or care what you think of my opinion.
Play your own game.

 

[kofeyh]

I'm sure if the OP's friend just slowed down and played the game 30 hours a day without really following any particular focus and you too will learn to love it and how could people possibly not.

This is akin to Stockholm syndrome, and it's a phenomenon within the gaming world as it can be anywhere else. Eventually, you either realise the abusive relationship has to stop, or you learn to love it.

Pretending this is good game play, that if things just take months instead of days it'll make everything better, is to essentially swallow that grind for the sake of it has value.

But of course, people should absolutely throw their life away just doing the same shallow tasks endlessly because let's be honest - that's what the rowdy few have demanded.

Op, your friend simply worked out Frontiers "one weird trick" faster than others. Grind is not a deep and meaningful game mechanic; and yet people will defend it to their very last.

Which gives Frontier a free pass to keep churning out cheap mechanics and shallow grinding as a replacement for actual content; because this is considered the most impeccable method to build a game.

I think it's exceedingly lazy and does not allow the game to get close to its actual potential. Frontier does a huge huge amount of work. But it's all just a different rendition of the same basic song.

 

[Lupin]

Bottom line, FD has your friends money as this is not subscription game.
The REAL question is if he comes back when a feature released HE wants to use.

"Friends come and go but enemies accumulate".

 

[GreyAreaUK]

I'm not asking about justifying whether you like the game or not. Again your trouble with comprehension what I write comes to light. We're talking about lack of depth here.

What apology, by the way?

You falsely accused my of making up someone else's words to justify my point. Which I didn't do.


And the whole 'lack of depth' thing is completely individually subjective.

 

[kofeyh]

Uhh...I did not wish to change your mind, hear your opinion, or care what you think of my opinion.
Play your own game.

For someone who doesn't care; you do seem very intent for people to care about the game the exact same way you do. There's a certain degree of gullibility that frontier have a habit of utilising endlessly.

And people lap it up. None-the-wiser. Developer is too busy enshrining grind as a core mechanic, to actually offer depth of experience.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Such depth. To repeat the same actions ad infinem. seeing how much you play you should know so much more about the game than me. Why won't you ask me about something only such a seasoned veteran would know? Give me an example of "depth" and I'll explain to you why it's shallow.

I'm an explorer, made 600 mil in exploration alone, which accounts for 95% of my assets. Been to Beagle Point, and lots of times to Colonia. I am quite jaded with regard to the progression of exploration mechanics in the game. I'm not at all excited about 2.3. Only thing I was planning to try out was flying a Dolphin, so I bought one, upped the FSD range to 38 LY, and decided to try my first passenger mission. 8.700 LY out to NGC 2818 for 12 million. Nice little trail run I thought. NGC 2818 is 1,7KLY above the plane. Having spent the last year around Colonia which is near the core, no alarmbells went off.

First 7k lightyears were unremarkable, got a feel for the Dolphin and it's a nice little exploration ship. When I got close to NGC 2818, I started to think about my journey up, and got a nasty surprise. The stars there are quite sparse, and I wasn't able to plot a direct route. Got as close as possible (560 LY) and then the fun started. The trip needed FSD boosts, which this veteran elite top dog explorer never anticipated because he's daft. So I tally up my boosts. Got about 30 J1 and J2s, but only 14 J3s. So that was my limiting factor. If I needed more than 7 J3 boosts to get to NGC 2818 I wouldn't make it. If a jump to get there would be larger than 76 LY, I wouldn't get there.

With 260 LY to go, I had to use my 6th J3 boost. This didn't look well for me. Did I just fly 8.5KLY, use many of my boosts just to find out I couldn't make the destination?

And then ... I ran into a neutron star. I could use this for a 300% boost, which would get me closer to my target. But with no way of knowing I could make the return trip. Oh what the hell, lets cook this FSD and go for it! Best option was a star 119 LY away ... which turned out to be another neutron star. Phew, so return trip secured. But ... next jump would need my last J3 boost. Luckily, my last boost only needed a J2. So I got there with exactly enough boosts. But then, I spotted a neutron star above NGC 2818, which made me able to skip 1 J3 boost, so I only needed 13, and actually had one to spare.

I can tell you that the seasoned explorer Ziggy sat staring at that first neutron star for a good while thinking: "I could use it, with no way of knowing how I'd get back, or press on using boosts with the chance I run out of them before I get to where I am. And if I run out ... I'm still going to press on and will rely on whatever materials I can find on the other side".

Now I'll grant you, these occasions are few and far between, but you asked for a single example

hehe - i'm a good customer, purchased some of the stuff twice for both of my accounts.

So? This means other customers can go screw themselves?

 

[Iafeth]

He had done all the mission types, run 5hrs of exploration to get access to Farseer, shot up a RES and CZ with me for bigger payouts, driven on a planet, spaced Ubered, CG'ed, mined and done lots of trading while watching CrunchyRoll. All the core "Content"

I just can't understand this "see all the content" concept. Currently I am playing other games like overwatch and Rally:dirt, because 2.3 (let's be honest) is a broken mess. And i saw all their content in a first 30 minutes. Does it mean i have to drop them?

 

[DukeIronHand]

My point is that IF we had been pushed into Open from the start, we may have shaped the galaxy differently - into something where co-operation is required, rather than everyone treating Elite like a solo game regardless of game mode.

It's your choice to see someone being pro-open and join in with pointing fingers and yelling "ZOMG HE'S ADVOCATING OPEN, MUST BE COMBAT PLAYER TRYING TO KILL US ALL". I mentioned nothing of my only interest being PvP (though I don't doubt that scene would be better) and instead refer to the co-operative play that would emerge for players to achieve goals - or indeed stay protected.

Cooperation?!? And in what online "Open" game has that worked out well in?
My game play experience must rely on the good will of every other player in the world with a joystick and some angst against society? I know your intent is good but that is a fantasy of the first order.
And how did this become an "Open" thread again?
And I will play my game the way I want not the way others want me too thank you.

 

[ratchet5000]

He had bought Horizons on its release with the hopes his high-end laptop would be able to play it but it just wasn't doing the game justice.

With all the hysteria about how "my personal preference is better than yours" in this thread, I'll point out the only objectively wrong part of the original post.

A laptop isn't "high end" if it can't run ED.
A Gtx 1070 laptop can do 130 FPS 1080p ultra/max settings in stations (screenshot also shows that only ~75% of the GPU is actually being used), 200 FPS + in space.

A GTX 1080 laptop could do 4K 60 FPS always. ED isn't that hard to run.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I just can't understand this "see all the content" concept. Currently I am playing other games like overwatch and Rally:dirt, because 2.3 (let's be honest) is a broken mess. And i saw all their content in a first 30 minutes. Does it mean i have to drop them?

Its the 'steam achievement' culture. If you got all stickers, you've run out of game.

 

[StiTch]

Cooperation?!? And in what online "Open" game has that worked out well in?
My game play experience must rely on the good will of every other player in the world with a joystick and some angst against society? I know your intent is good but that is a fantasy of the first order.
And how did this become an "Open" thread again?

Because it's the internet and when people have opinions, they quite apparently clash.

In the interests of not wearing out an already worn discussion I'll leave it here as neither of us will persuade the other; which is something almost every dispute here will boil down to. In this case it boils down to you having no faith in the ED player base, and me not having faith in most of the player base.

The ED player base has always been different and the same forces that constructed AA would hopefully have become much more prevalent. And still hoping that when the C&P revamp happens it does nothing to discourage PvP bounty hunting.

 

[DukeIronHand]

For someone who doesn't care; you do seem very intent for people to care about the game the exact same way you do. There's a certain degree of gullibility that frontier have a habit of utilising endlessly.

And people lap it up. None-the-wiser. Developer is too busy enshrining grind as a core mechanic, to actually offer depth of experience.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Do what you want. Play your own game. Leave the game. Whine away.
See? Nothing has changed for me? Did it for you?

 

[TERMINATRIXXX]

So? This means other customers can go screw themselves?

I'm not responsible for others and what they do. Am i?

 

[kofeyh]

Its the 'steam achievement' culture. If you got all stickers, you've run out of game.

Have you got some daily quota to fill to make such sweeping statements designed purely to silence discussion and or troll for effect? Honestly it's like you are employed to say this sort of garbage and it's pretty sad and nonsensical.

 

[Minonian]

I'm not responsible for others and what they do. Am i?

But you responsible for your own actions toward others.

 

[kofeyh]

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Do what you want. Play your own game. Leave the game. Whine away.
See? Nothing has changed for me? Did it for you?

Thanks for illustrating what a truly irrelevant comment can be.

Holding frontier to a higher standard, and questioning what they are doing is healthy. Just as it's healthy for them to question what we are doing.

Sadly it's mostly a lack of conversation followed by confusing mechanics. And a rushed set of fixes.

They mean well but fall over their own feet, constantly. This is reflected in the things we have available to do.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Have you got some daily quota to fill to make such sweeping statements designed purely to silence discussion and or troll for effect? Honestly it's like you are employed to say this sort of garbage and it's pretty sad and nonsensical.

He's got a point though. Some people seem to treat Elite as Space Pokemon.