A Simple Solution to Combat Logging

[Daniel Klimchuk]

Combat logging is a major exploit in player versus player combat, and a timer is not enough to mitigate this issue. Some players have suggested to increase the timer, but this does not prevent exiting by pulling the network cables. The ideal solution is as simple as allowing the player to quit the game, but for their ship to remain in that instance unless they are docked at a station or there are no hostile players/NPCs in that instance. To prevent the server from flooding, a time limit could be implemented - eg. the ship remains in that instance for 10 minutes before being removed.

This mechanic is present in many multiplayer games and I don't see this as being too hard to implement. There may be better solutions out there, but the current state which allows you to exit and your ship disappears immediately is inappropriate for a game with PvP combat.

 

[Factabulous]

I ❤ it when people put 'A simple solution to X' in their thread titles - always ends well

 

[Riverside]

Combat Logging Punishment Proposal

Important note, FDev have said they will be monitoring this thread, if you think you have a good alternative proposal, or like one of the ones in this thread please do join the discussion. From the feedback over the last day or so it seems clear that there are lots of things in the game that...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Ethaidan]

I ❤ it when people put 'A simple solution to X' in their thread titles - always ends well

Simple solutions are bred from simplistic understandings.

 

[Screemonster]

Simple solutions are bred from simplistic understandings.

There's a reason why one of my favourite tags I've seen on a git repo is "harder to implement than you think" and it's reserved for these sorts of simple suggestions.

 

[Speedcuffs]

Sounds familiar.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Hello Commanders!

To clarify: the official stance on exiting the game via the menu, at any point, is that it is legitimate. I suspect at some point we may increase the "in danger" countdown, but for now you just have to wait fifteen seconds.

However, we can't speak for how other Commanders view such actions.

For the record, when we talk about "combat logging" at Frontier, we mean the act of ungracefully exiting the game (either by ALT-F4 type procedures or by cutting the network traffic).

 

[Taifu]

The simplest solution is to find a game where PvP combat is the primary focus of the game, and not an optional tack on to a 4 decade old premise created around a single player experience.

Also, something rambling about server architecture.

 

[Kekkonshiki]

Combat logging is a major exploit in player versus player combat, and a timer is not enough to mitigate this issue. Some players have suggested to increase the timer, but this does not prevent exiting by pulling the network cables. The ideal solution is as simple as allowing the player to quit the game, but for their ship to remain in that instance unless they are docked at a station or there are no hostile players/NPCs in that instance. To prevent the server from flooding, a time limit could be implemented - eg. the ship remains in that instance for 10 minutes before being removed.

This mechanic is present in many multiplayer games and I don't see this as being too hard to implement. There may be better solutions out there, but the current state which allows you to exit and your ship disappears immediately is inappropriate for a game with PvP combat.

I have a quite unreliable internet connection. I'd be very miffed if I was winning a fight and my connection dropped only to find my ship had been blown to smithereens in my absence.

 

[Nadreck]

The simple solution is "you loose connection for any reason during combat, your dead and the last person to land shots on you is victorious. End of story".

In a peer-to-peer connection, there's no way to determine who broke the connection. So both must die.

Makes station-ramming a lot easier, no need to actually ram anymore. Lurking Sidewinder sees incoming Cutters, disconnects, everyone dies.

 

[photomankc]

The simple solution is "you loose connection for any reason during combat, your dead and the last person to land shots on you is victorious. End of story".

investigate the nature of UDP connections.

Cool. I’ll invest in a firewall that lets me block incoming game packets when I like. I win, always.

 

[Northpin]

Combat logging is a major exploit in player versus player combat, and a timer is not enough to mitigate this issue. Some players have suggested to increase the timer, but this does not prevent exiting by pulling the network cables. The ideal solution is as simple as allowing the player to quit the game, but for their ship to remain in that instance unless they are docked at a station or there are no hostile players/NPCs in that instance. To prevent the server from flooding, a time limit could be implemented - eg. the ship remains in that instance for 10 minutes before being removed.

This mechanic is present in many multiplayer games and I don't see this as being too hard to implement. There may be better solutions out there, but the current state which allows you to exit and your ship disappears immediately is inappropriate for a game with PvP combat.

Yea, and if i block your ip in my firewall... my game would think that you combat logged and i get to blow your ship for free.
right?

Also, i play on xbox and you'd think the game should be rock stable on a gaming platform that has virtually no variance, right?
well, wrong. The game crashes on XB quite often.
Sometimes i simply find myself in home screen - no error no nothing.
Some other times i get a sound loop then the game crashes to home screen.
and then there are the mauve, black whatever colour followed by a some random snake.
So no, thank you.

i'm pretty sure if there was "a simple solution" it would arealdy be in a 5 years old game.

 

[Morbad]

In a peer-to-peer connection, there's no way to determine who broke the connection.

In a peer-to-peer game where there are also multiple centralized servers (such as ED's authentication, matchmaking and chat servers, for example) and may well be multiple peers, it's often not hard to tell which party lost connection to the game. If the game also has routing/relay mechanisms (like ED's use of STUN and TURN servers) to get around the need for a direct connection between peers, it's also possible to prevent the blocking of specific peers via most mechanisms a client could be capable of.

i'm pretty sure if there was "a simple solution" it would arealdy be in a 5 years old game.

It's probably a cost/benefit/care thing.

Way cheaper to state that vague measures are being taken than to actually look collect and use telemetry or tune one's network model.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Combat logging has actually nothing to do with pvp.

You can combat menu log almost instanttly in CQC, where it would have actually made sense to have a timer or ship persistence there...

The timer is in the main game because people at FDev think time sinks lead to player involvement and they dont want anyone to save scum by menu logging and avoid a rebuy cost. They dont give an arx about pvp.

 

[photomankc]

Even if you know A is still sending packets to you to forward on to B and you know that you have sent them to B you can’t know why B isn’t getting them or responding. Failure anywhere in the path could be at issue. Power out. Breaker popped. ISP interface failed. All you can really know is that it’s not getting there and not responding.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

I ❤ it when people put 'A simple solution to X' in their thread titles - always ends well

Especially when it's a solution that has been proposed and debated countless times before.

 

[Brrokk]

Oh no not again.

Any suggestion for dealing with combat logging has to cope with the situation where two players are instanced together, then they lose the connection with each other but both still communicate with FD.

In your solution I think both players' ships would be replaced by an uncontrolled ship in the other's game.

 

[Marklar_]

Internet connection drops often happen for legit reasons beyond the player's control. There is no way to tell the difference between that and a combat log.

If you think that someone combat logged on you, just slap another defeated ship sticker on your monitor and call it a win. There's no reason to care so much about whether or not your opponent loses a ship, just call it a win and move on. Credits don't mean anything anymore anyway.

 

[kurush]

Some basic people just don't understand what P2P means and that in a 2 CMDR PVP combat situation there are in fact 3 connections where each of them can be lost independently. So even if FDev decides to go full and adds death upon server disconnect, it won't actually solve the issue. Myself and my cat will love to see how abusable will be any punishment for a peer connection loss.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Even simpler. Allow combat logging. Instant logout in a PvP situation. But if somebody does it, that CMDR can't initiate PvP for X days.

Think about it.
Those who combat log because they don't want to PvP just make it clear that they don't want PvP. If they log out it would save the other player some hassle. Not being able to PvP for X days would not hurt them or others.

Those who combat log because they are losing a fight, now they would see not being able to initiate PvP as a punishment.

Everybody wins. PvP players get enemies who like to PvP. PvP players who play unfairly by avoiding the consequences of the PvP they initiated - now they get punished and everybody else doesn't have to deal with them.

Yea, I know. Nobody would like that system.