Because I have a few more cans to kick down this road I'm posting some more...
Because a lot of the cans don't go together well nor have any sort of order to them let me clarify a bit.
11 modules is a sum. It isn't the end all be all. It is the pan-ultimate explorer if someone has a lot of money and wants to "have it all". You know people will do it so having that hook out there with some bait on it isn't a bad idea for a game designer to have. When the only thing out there to look forward to is one ship people get ...less than amicable. I think we can all admit people have reached a cut-off point where the "hope" that "this next" update "is going to have 'it'" has gone way past due.
Look at the problem like this. The stuff I'm posting is like a pile of puzzle pieces. Most of these are things we've variously come up with as "our thing". They aren't "yours" and they aren't "mine". Rather, they've come together to be called "exploration". Some of them have utility and some are more like the niche for this or that type of explorer. I'll go over this again in more detail as I go on, but essentially Riverside is tacking it down. And some of other criticism of my post are pointing out still other tacks to be held stable.
For an easy go-to example: Jump Range.
I REALLY like the Type-9. It is a real chore to take that out on the rim, however. Gotta land, RNG the surface for every sort of rock and hump for FSD boost and then the hours spent doing it... not worth it. Absolutely not worth it. HOWEVER... take the Type-9 towards the center of the galaxy? Suddenly you're at an advantage. You've got all these modules.
Where extra modules come into play:
Multiplayer. If you have a Type 9, Corvette, or Cutter out along side some other ships you can be producing limpets which you can then cast off to your friends who then try to reach things they might otherwise avoid. And that's right there in the wiki as to what the Fuel Limpet is for. It's how we ended up with Fuel Rats.
- This is one of those areas of the game where it feels like FDev got too many balls juggling. It isn't that they don't know what to do with them all... it's rather that they forgot what the sequence of the juggling act IS.
- Big Ships mean a lot of modules and in the case of the Type 9 a wide view. This sort of thing functions great for long term surveys of deep space. It absolutely doesn't work much at all right now, however, because we just keep getting more things to use up modules for and Exploration has seen a credit update. That's it... for years.
So ya, at this point Exploration is a mess. We are just slap-dashing it.
And this is the highlighter for the problem we're in. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE NEED.
It wouldn't be nearly so bad a problem if we could just plan. Then you can offset one ship build by having a second pilot with still another one. And usually that works out best anyway. The more variety of players you have with you the more possibility their seeming eccentricity in loadout turns out to have a real and unrealized practicality. This is the greatness that is Exploration currently as well. We have all this organic and creative potential being realized. I ran into someone with a 35 Ly Cutter just the other day. They still had 7D thrusters (G5 Engineering DD) and some other great rolls. So, here's a Cutter just putting my Adder to shame. It's stuff like that that makes me sit back and say, "Wow, now if only we had any confidence we weren't missing things."
Now we're getting to the part of why I'm writing more here.
Missing things.
A lot of what we see in the Bubble, Maia, and the whole Alien Ruins / Crash Sites has strong consistencies related to its general mystery. Consequently the absence of any obvious utility from our sensors isn't very distressing. Alien ruins want to cluster around -19.5 degrees parallel with the planets' equators and crash sites are doing the same. The range of UPs to UAs found is within xyz of the Bubble and blahblah. So, okay, great. We can forgive the fact our sensors are worthless because we can ...use our eyes again and brain-thing to generally come up with some reasonable parameters to fix boundaries to our search efforts. Wonderful. Real science and not terribly hard at that.
But when we're out further than than the Bubble and about 1000 Ly around it... then having a "clue" becomes an issue.
Frankly, we don't.
Want to find brain-trees? How about fungus? Anything else? Do you honestly imagine you're going to do that with the sensors?
No.
It is not even remotely likely the data you have from your sensors is cluing you in to anything. Now, if you have a degree in astronomy, some exposure to xenobiology, and some strong understanding of chemistry... then ya. Probably you'll have a fair idea of what's "odd" from the age of brown dwarfs, their orbit, position, or some moon's 1% of mineral-M, etc.
But for the average person? ...nope.
And again, this is without discussing (which I will do again) the issues our scanners are 180 degrees from functional. Found a POI? Scanner turns off as you decent towards it. After 80,000 Ly you get the point. The novelty of the SRV is gone. The thrill of dumping the thing full speed against a mountain from high orbit ... that's there... but no option for that. And so on. At least then you could theoretically dig the wave scanner off the cliff face with the cargo scoop and call it good. That's what Engineering amounts to anyways. Won't be any different if we try it ourselves.
There's the evidence from Generation Ships now that we've probably never been able to trust the ADS. That's just depressing. I mean, here we are flying all over the place without the slightest clue we should have been checking our Contacts Tab while flying around empty space. It isn't just that this probably didn't occur to people, it is that the visual is off to the side and not even going to clue you in with a ping. Nothing. If you weren't looking? That's some insane number of hours you didn't have a clue you just flew right by who knows what. That instills a kind of quiet rage because it ties in with more acute questions: What do we NEED?
Do I bring the SRV? Why? It weights me down and having taken an Adder across the galaxy I'm well aware you CAN do those stupid long treks out between the arms with just 32 Ly of Jump Range. No AMFUs, No Heat Sinks. Just a general plodding along. So... Jump Range becomes a bit of diminishing return item. 28 Ly is sufficient to do most things not Rim related. 32 Ly means you CAN do most things out on the Rim if you brought an SRV or AMFU for the Neutron Stars... take your pick with some situational limitations. You're still going to be facing things like 99 jumps to move 100 Ly forward, but where did you plan to head besides there that you have GOT to get to RIGHT NOW? Right... so ...who cares. It's up to the tolerances of the pilot at that point. 40 Ly is optimal. Especially post-Horizons. You're going to be able to just about anywhere you would reasonably want to go and most unreasonable places with that, too. 51 and beyond is just easy street. You're also starting to pass into the range of high module count ships minus the DBX (because it is a mutant freak now).
Here's one solid thing that ties all of what I'm talking about into a sort of cluster of potentially limited subjects.
~ Exploration is a confrontation with the Unknown.
- consequently you want to have as many "options" pitted against "challenges" as you are aware exist.
Because of the accursed RNGineers this takes some excessive planning. And I mean excessive.
- Idealy about 400 + cruising speed is wanted for planetary surveys though.
- Especially this is the case if you're looking for Geysers.
Let's use this as a launching point for going on into thinking about this.
"Okay, you are going to search for Geysers."
What kind of ship do you bring?
Issues to consider:
1. Canopy - because you need to see (sensors being unlikely to spot them before your eyes do). That's if you aren't blind by now from the perpetually beige moons anyway.
2. Thrusters
a. for the weight of your ship
b. for speed because chances are good you're going to be at this... for days... and days... and days... Anything that can eliminate the canyon in hours water than a week is REALLY WORTH THE TIME.
c. but these cut into your Jump Range
d. cutting into your Jump Range is going to add WEEKS to your overall survey (planetary or otherwise)
Right... so already we've got three Engineering Issues:
- Weight
- Speed
- Jump-Range
How many Engineers and Engineering Recipes are you going to have to do to get any ONE of these modules ready to go?
- Factor that into your Survey Time
It took me about two weeks to unlock Palin and then another week to collect materials. And this is with help from a friend stepping in who had things on hand to help me. I'm still not done.
- So that's TWO WEEKS of playing RNG with the whole of the game just to get back out to what I want to be doing.
- Eventually this leads to a psychological deficit and adds to that contempt generated against FDev as discussed above.
RNGineers acts as a barrier to entry for the game rather than a part of the game. Especially where reply value starts to come into effect because once you've done one RNGineered Ship you realize the whole game was required to be played once through. At that point motivation to go on and play more has serious diminishing returns.
- For the sake of the game I don't see this going anywhere positive. People are going to figure out the whole game is RNG before you can even get one ship up to capacity for one task.
How many times over do you want to work on this?
- Let's say you're done. You have dumped three weeks into making that "ultimate explorer" just the way you want... except now suddenly Small Worlds is heading out. You just upgraded an AspX.
So you're back with RNGi doing it all over again.
- And that's when contempt turns into real disdain.
How many times are you going to go through the RNGi-process before you can't talk yourself into even entering some other kind of content? And this all lingers in the back of your mind while you're making what is now less an "ultimate" explorer and more like a second life. Like someone who spends all day painting battleships or something.
By the time you're done with Engineering you're two or three weeks into this ship. And you're trying to do a two or three month trip if you're really going out in the black.
- Did you plan for ALL of it?
Maybe you have all the stuff you want to bring for yourself... but maybe not? Let's say this game really is a multiplayer experience. It seems to be. We have all these expeditions going off each year. This would rather indicate we ought to have some ships capable of playing long-term support roles. In that case having a few ships with the module space enough for an SRV AND Fuel Limpet Controller + the necessary Cargo rack is a make or break. If the Devs are going to support players wanting to play a support role while making SRVs a gimmick necessary to interact with POI and get materials for synthesis then it is one or the other. SRV... or Fuel Limpet Controller + Cargo rack.
And as a consequence of that you're snuffing out a lot of the smaller ships. I don't really see how that is good for the game either. Why should new players, who theoretically benefit the most from playing support roles in an expedition, be the most limited in access to basic modules that really gain them nothing for themselves? It isn't like having a fuel limpet control dumped over to a utility slot is game-breaking or something. It just means younger players are going to have more ways to get involved with larger groups than hanging around in a ship with a bunch of other players more experienced feeling useless and clueless. And this is really hitting into the wider issue of games not supporting multiplayer and community all that much. It's like we have lost the capacity to enjoy or appreciate the presence of other people to such an extent we go out of our way to concoct structures that make their inclusion (or even potential development) just punishing. Cynically I just see this as the result of Oxford. Social Engineer full bore.
But whatever, this is the state of things.
We have the ADS... which basically says, "This stuff is in the system and located here."
We have the DSS... which is useful for:
a) material hunting
b) a really adept Phd (maybe... sometimes) and if they're thinking: Easy example - Star's Age reads 2 years old. Good cause to stop and scan everything.
c) satisfied the panicked sense for many impressionists this was the one and only chance to see an update to exploration so they were definitely getting that DSS to have the Surface Map. Sure, great. Made total sense right up until they forgot to say... and the DSS can scan a planet at -700 Ls or closer. Because as it stands... it's really quite pointless. We already know what the planet is five different ways without having to even do more than open system map. Even if they were all blacked out you'd start to sort it out after while just by their volume. So, seriously to FDev, thanks for the novelty, but this was one of those "don't listen to the vocal minority" moment. Particularly because if you're going to have a vote on something have it be accessible where we log in. Not stuffed somewhere down in the forums.
Holo-Display: HUD as it works on near a planet's surface... I guess it is good for landing? It has that going for it. It found fungus for me once. That was different. Too bad it couldn't do anything different to show "fungus" vs. "high energy output". Honestly? What does it do? Is it sensing for heat? If yes give me FLIR and Night Vision for the dark side of things. Or how about a black light? Then I might just have something to go on besides beige play-dough surface and burning-my-eyes-out-white/yellow. I can't tell. Why is the POI for fungus the same as the POI for Geysers? I'd imagine Geysers being rather entirely different in their heat signature than fungus. How about escape pods? Should that be... I don't know? A loud pleading sound from my ship? Isn't that kind of the point? "Help! I'm going to die!" BEEEEP. But no, just some silent coffin out there in the black. And you know what? We leave them there because... no cargo space.
And on and on.
So, what do we NEED when we're out there?
What ARE the critical things?
What tells us that we shouldn't be desperately picking up all the escape pods we can because those will trigger some advance in the Jacques' story or some other event?
What tells us we should only fly above a planet's surface instead of setting down with the SRV because hidden away in the wave scanner are special, yet undiscovered, event triggers?
Blah blah.
And again... what is Logarithmic vs. Linear for?
Here's a separate way to look at this:
Let's say there was a giant-all-purpose "can do everything" ship.
Who would want it? These are usually bad ideas. People get them and then complain the game is over. Nothing more to do or find.
So there's this balance between, "meets the needs of the game's content", while simultaneously not "removing all the diversity of bringing so many different kinds of exploration ships out there". Having completely no clue what we should be bringing has added a real wonder to the game and sense of personal space or personal expression to our gaming. The dignity of the individual isn't vitiated in how things are currently.
If person wants to go out in a Hauler to Jacques there is ZERO sense that they've done anything at all "wrong" nor that they are "wasting their time".
It's a bit eccentric, but that's not to say it is "wrong". As for "wasting their time"? By what reckoning. Beyond what the ADS and DSS tell us there's absolutely nothing "out there" to be found those things are necessarily inadequate for. Not when we're talking about such limited module space. Such a ship is more like ...I don't know what to call it? Let's say, "A Challenger". Something people do because they're after a challenge or out to prove a point. To FDev, themselves, who knows. And that's great. There should be enough variety of ships in the game for that kind of thing. There seems to be.
But this post is about practical tools to do something. And on that we're somewhat idle. We have the ADS. We have the DDS. What we don't have is a purpose. A clue. And we can't trust them.
It is trust that's really in short supply now.
We can't trust we haven't missed things. And a lot of pilots are coming to not trust FDev. And this isn't me bashing FDev. It's just that generation ships come out the same time that the Formidine Rift mega ship is found. All with voice logs. I'm completely willing to believe this was content just waiting to be triggered. Really, because I'd do that. I'm that kind of person who is content to go on puzzling over something without a satisfying conclusion. A lot of life is that way as well. A lot of research in real life is never completed. It goes somewhere, dead-ends, or you are too stuck in a groove to see what's obvious. All of the above happen and are probably happening. But a lot of people are here to be gaming.
And right now the "game" aspect is starting to fall through. RNGi spans the whole swath of what is Engineering. First time through? Who cares. But after your second or third ship? Suddenly this is turning you off from getting involved with more content. Just as an example... I'm back in the Bubble because I wanted to pick up a DBX and ship it to Jacques. I also realllly wanted a Cobra. Got the Cobra. Then I started to take a look at the DBX... Could - not - make - myself - by - it. The thought of doing all that RNG again to get one stupid upgrade for a ship I'm only going to have out there in case I want to reach a friend ASAP... no. Absolutely not.
So then I thought... "Well, I DO have all these materials. And this Jump Range roll for the Cobra is taking forever. And I still have Thrusters to do. ...I'll splurge. I'll buy a Corvette and prod at that while I work my way along this Cobr... and so a few hours later I had sold the Corvette, my Type-9, and swore off anything to do with RNGineers once I'm done with this Cobra. I'm done with them. Finished and any game related content that comes from them that isn't for the ships already have? FORGET IT!!
It's no fun to supposedly be "playing" a game when everything ends with dice roll and a hard reset back to the beginning again.
Skill, competence, patience... sell yourself to the mill however you please, but eventually there is this terminal spiral that sets in. The "game"... what there is of it... wears you out. The passion you had to go get that new ship RNGineers murders with the slogging brutality of dogged repeat ability. And the opposite end of it there's no clue whatsoever as to how we should be interacting with our utilities for exploration to maximize the probability for a meaningful discovery.
And we haven't gone far off course.
"We need a clue as to how we should be interacting with our utilities for exploration to maximize the probability for a meaningful discovery."
Breaking that down:
Utilities
Probability of Goal Oriented Outcomes being Successful relative to Current Game Content
Meaningful Discovery
This last should probable be entangled somehow between the macro-strata of the galactic setting and the micro-strata of the current story narrative.
Macro-strata would be ...I don't know... clues. Hints of a larger picture. Universal Cartographics missions with no timer, but rather a set of parameters. "We would like you to scan for systems possessing large bodies with eccentric orbits xyz in size whose orbital period is N to N1." Then when you DO randomly (because it will be random) actually come upon such a system your systems will tone to such a relevant discovery. Why the heck these are important? Who knows! You don't need to know either. All that matters is that your aware as a gamer you have done something that contributes to the winder scope of the game's unfolding narrative. And these might be truly rare finds, but that you should find them... woo. Maybe it is a gas giant with just the ring mix of chemistry. Who cares. It is all a way to tell the GAMER they've connected with the game.
Micro-strata stuff would probably be patch dependent. Upgrades to our scanners as ... say... someone finds fungus. For god sake in real life if someone found fungus in space tomorrow every nerd and their inbred cousins would be hammering together a scanner capable of producing more than one POI image for Geysers, Radio Signals, and Fungus. And by the end of the night half the exporers in the galaxy would be fiddling with their own sensors to rig something capable of 'maybe' ...kind of... doing the same.
Why not let large ships be capable of carrying a Repairing Boon? A bit square thing which can latch onto other player's ships and repair them right out there in deep space. Heck, there could even be a credit transfer for it. And other or both could share synthesis materials... even if only just for the process itself.
Why can't we share micro-commodities? Seriously. Is this a multiplayer game or isn't it?
How about continuous sampling for our sensors? We can just park in a system and begin to eat the radiant photon information coming off from all the local data. Produce a mini game and have us just pick at it for analysis. The results could be an RNG success-rate with increasing amounts of time stacking into the rerolls? If we get really lucky we could find something seriously awesome by picking at the data and isolating factors, or just sit there RNGing it at the cost of drastically increasing the time before we can try to RNG the outcome again. The idea being that we're taking samples of pretty weak information, but which is coming to us continuously. Over time that builds up into a profile of... maybe just noise... or maybe real information that could lead to something. The trick would be to do... do it by hand and possibly end up with a Tabby's Star scenario... or... let the ship do it (RNG). Maybe it rolls good... but probably it is pre-programmed to a bias. The calculus wasn't good enough... it starts rounding off decimals too early... too many decimals... whatever: all of that is static (a computer) is subject to bias. When exploring that's the difference between finding something and missing something entirely.
But here's the real selling point... people would know there's more to exploration than flying your ship around in a skybox full of little orbs just exactly like all the other little orbs which then have to be individually explored... with your eyes. It'd make exploration a lot less like the most eccentric hopeless task imaginable. It'd give people a sense there's a game to it and even if they're not a PhD they can still work with the tools FROM THE GAME... to CONNECT to things IN THE GAME.
...yep. Tired now. Done writing for a bit.
