A traders perspective on career balancing

[SiriusSeven]

Well I worked as wing in Beta taking on Multiple Conda's in Beta, we made good money, and I could only fly for an hour or two each day. It seems like progression to me, start out in a Viper or cobra, work as wing, build up to a tricked out Clipper, take on harder targets, eventually get to a Python and go into Strong signals alone and keep all the cash.

Well, the 1.2 update is a day old. If this bares out, then maybe FD have less work to do. Time will tell. I don't have access to beta, but I know they transferred saves. Did you re-roll? Were only the new ships 100 cr?

 

[Epicurean Dream]

From a pirate:
If pirating, or bounty hunting, or combat made as much money as trading, far far far more players would do those things and there would be no traders to hunt. The imbalance that makes it so hard for me to earn money is what makes it possible at all for me to earn money.

Interesting point.

 

[777Driver]

There is zero risk trading in open unless you are a moron and go to places like Lave. If you are

Ok now you are talking out of your rear... what ship do you fly? I doubt it's a T9.. We get interdicted all the time, and I operate out of plenty of different areas. Have traded up to 350 million plus, And that's not sitting at home all day playing this game. I do gear towards trading, but for every two hours I put aside to play, I'll jump into one of my Combat ships for 30 mins doing 150,000K missions.

T9 operator in Open may as well stick a big shoot me sign on the ship. Everyone knows we are rich and hauling expensive cargo. I stick to open purely about principal, have lost maybe 50 mill or more from lazy dudes wanting 15T when the ship they fly can carry 200T, have also kicked a few butts myself whilst flying this brick. Nothing easy about trading open

Only easy part of trading in Open was when flying a Conda, funny that nobody would dare touch me back then

 

[Odan Brota]

Speaking as a Baron in the glorious empire, I dare say that I do indeed feel for the wretched unwashed masses. Whereas I, a civilized man, make my living transporting indebted persons to and from their places of indentured servitude, the poor lost lambs called "bounty hunters" must squeeze their meager wage from the dregs of society, and I feel bad. I really, really do; my heart goes out to them. But.... perhaps their plight is caused by a lack of sophistication (or perhaps brain pan size) in their breeding. Gods and clods, dear friends, gods and clods.

However, I do require some protection from the undesireables on my longer trade runs, so I propose that you lot should huddle as dogs at my feet, and perhaps I shall feed you some of my scraps in exchange for your services.

 

[SiriusSeven]

Speaking as a Baron in the glorious empire, I dare say that I do indeed feel for the wretched unwashed masses. Whereas I, a civilized man, make my living transporting indebted persons to and from their places of indentured servitude, the poor lost lambs called "bounty hunters" must squeeze their meager wage from the dregs of society, and I feel bad. I really, really do; my heart goes out to them. But.... perhaps their plight is caused by a lack of sophistication (or perhaps brain pan size) in their breeding. Gods and clods, dear friends, gods and clods.

However, I do require some protection from the undesireables on my longer trade runs, so I propose that you lot should huddle as dogs at my feet, and perhaps I shall feed you some of my scraps in exchange for your services.

Well, you insulted us horribly, but you were so polite in doing so. And you made me laugh. Have some rep.

 

[CMDR Reza Malin]

Ok now you are talking out of your rear... what ship do you fly? I doubt it's a T9.. We get interdicted all the time, and I operate out of plenty of different areas. Have traded up to 350 million plus, And that's not sitting at home all day playing this game. I do gear towards trading, but for every two hours I put aside to play, I'll jump into one of my Combat ships for 30 mins doing 150,000K missions.

T9 operator in Open may as well stick a big shoot me sign on the ship. Everyone knows we are rich and hauling expensive cargo. I stick to open purely about principal, have lost maybe 50 mill or more from lazy dudes wanting 15T when the ship they fly can carry 200T, have also kicked a few butts myself whilst flying this brick. Nothing easy about trading open

Only easy part of trading in Open was when flying a Conda, funny that nobody would dare touch me back then

I was trading in a type 6, then an asp, then a type 7, and finished up in an A class clipper. I have since D classed it and put into storage and now fly a maxed out vulture. Had more fun yesterday flying that vulture in a RES, than in the whole time since i got out of a cobra and actually started trading.

What grips me the most is people put out these condescending sob stories about how they tried bounty hunting and it makes good money, or they do it for half an hour out of 2 hours of trading? Lol. Try making a living in the game out of it, then say its fine. I could trade for 2 runs and then stop and say trading isn't boring, its the same principle, but equally untrue.

The point is mate, some people don't want to have to trade to enjoy the game, and for some people enjoying the game would be flying good ships. I can't motivate myself to trade anymore. I know there are others like me, and clearly FD knows it too. Thats all that really matters. Hence the upcoming balancing.

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Speaking as a Baron in the glorious empire, I dare say that I do indeed feel for the wretched unwashed masses. Whereas I, a civilized man, make my living transporting indebted persons to and from their places of indentured servitude, the poor lost lambs called "bounty hunters" must squeeze their meager wage from the dregs of society, and I feel bad. I really, really do; my heart goes out to them. But.... perhaps their plight is caused by a lack of sophistication (or perhaps brain pan size) in their breeding. Gods and clods, dear friends, gods and clods.

However, I do require some protection from the undesireables on my longer trade runs, so I propose that you lot should huddle as dogs at my feet, and perhaps I shall feed you some of my scraps in exchange for your services.

Ha good speech. Do some long trade runs and ill escort you. Im Empire affiliated too. Sounds different.

 

[jp josh]

rather than buffing the bounty on wanted players why not just give more money to combat zone/ war zone pilots?

its easier to die in the war zones due to wings now than any other place.

 

[gary.brain]

i make a shed load of money BH so I dont know why people are complaining........

 

[SiriusSeven]

i make a shed load of money BH so I dont know why people are complaining........

Well it sounds like it's getting better -- especially with 1.2. I assume FD have real numbers though: Credits generated by each professions. If there was no imbalance, the easiest path would be to just say that and refer to metrics. They didn't do that though. Maybe you are an exceptionally good bounty hunter? Or maybe you financed your bounty hunting rig by doing a lot of trade early on?

 

[SlackR]

Whatever happens this can't become a game where you own an anaconda by the end of the first week playing. It was like that in the beginning and had to be changed. Going down the the easy money route will damage the spirit of the game. We need more content, not less difficulty. This game might be coming out on the xbox but I won't sit by and let it be turned into an xbox game! (Stern face)

 

[Distance]

Whatever happens this can't become a game where you own an anaconda by the end of the first week playing. It was like that in the beginning and had to be changed. Going down the the easy money route will damage the spirit of the game. We need more content, not less difficulty. This game might be coming out on the xbox but I won't sit by and let it be turned into an xbox game! (Stern face)

You realise a game is a game regardless of what platform it's on. I've got a whole bunch of friends who've put 1000 hours in to a "console game" and who would want to play a game like elite. Just because cod is a big game on consoles it doesn't mean everyone who owns a console exclusively play cod and has the attention span of a wounded gnat.

I wish people would stop the veiled bigotry towards console. I like a pcmr joke along with the best of them and haven't had a console since the ps1 but some of the wildly accusations thrown at fd bringing this game to a new platform (which will make them more money to put in to development for everyone) borders on Daily Mail level hysteria.

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

I think its fairly simple, the top traders pull in 6+mil/hr, the top bounty hunters pull in maybe 1.5mil/hr there isn't really anything else to it, trading is also considerably easier, though the knowledge to find the perfect route might be hard and thats what justifies the greatest incomes on the best traders, but even if you approach in a I don't care fashion it takes maybe 10 minutes to find a 2.5kcr/t route lol.

Note this isn't a comment on the independent incomes just why people moan about them.

Edit: Also if you are currently trading in an Asp/T6 you are still in the area where combat scales and it really isn't that noticeable, its when you get to clipper/python/T9/Conda that the disparity becomes huge.

Well said.

Further more, a traders entire playsession is surrounding "money making", where a combat pilots play session (me at least) is about combat and not money making. That slows things down considerably. I dont think I EVER EVER EVER made 1.5 mill / hour doing bounty hunting. I fly a cobra, and for me to do that would mean killing an 100k Anaconda every 4th minute.

Edit, most NPC criminals seem to fly cobras and vipers at around 20.000 credits bounty.
In order to make even a million an hour I have to pop one every 1.2 minute. And they simply dont spawn that fast.

 

[JuicerPrime]

I'm betting my money that pretty much all ships across the board will become cheaper, but their maintenance/upgrade costs will increase and scale so that people who "worked" for them can have a much easier time than those about to dive into hastily purchasing them after the price reduction. Call me a cynic, but there are no free lunches.

I believe you want Real Life™ for that kind of economic mentality, this is a video game. Third door on the left, over that way --->

 

[obliterator]

Scaling, that's the real problem here.

Just because we're bounty hunters doesn't mean we don't enjoy progression, and right now, there is none. When you trade, you get bigger and bigger ships to become more and more effective. But when you're bounty hunting, it doesn't matter if you're in a viper or an anaconda: you kill the exact same target and reap the exact same bounty. Being in an anaconda or python wont make you more efficient, as the speed at which you destroy targets doesn't change the rate at which they spawn.

I would really like to have some npc's with incredibly big bounties, but that are also incredibly hard to kill. Hard in a way that would actually be challenging for someone with an anaconda. Something challenging enough that when you're in your fully upgraded cobra and see it you think "woooh, I think I will need a bigger ship". Progression should be a part of bounty hunting. But right now it's not.

Super duper pirates zones full of wanted elite wings of 5 anacondas? Bounty hunting capital ships maybe? I don't know. But we need to be able to hunt something bigger and meaner!

 

[Lenroc elisav]

I'm mean you have an exciting job and hauling crap from A to B ain't exactly fun you know! plus ive seen you all hanging out in the spacebars, all suave and leathered up....The ladies aren't exactly flocking round me you know! Spacetruckins not exactly a glamorous job and the last time I could fit into a pair of leather pants was pre- flight school!

Anyways there it is ... A simple trucker turned bounty hunter for less than half an hour and wondering why everyone's moaning!
See you around commanders

Hey OP, I'm glad you had some fun. Now sell your truck and keep at it. From your post you don't sound that happy with trucking so if you can BH and be happy with it why not keep at it? If trucking is giving you some sort of intimate psychical satisfaction then stop caring what other people complain about and enjoy blazing your own trail .

P.S. 1.2 showed BHunters some FDev love and we appreciate it. We might learn to love you back if you keep it up FDevs. o7

 

[Miklos Atreides]

I believe the biggest disparity surrounding Trading's income is a result of the 3rd party trading tools. I don;t mind them, and don;t suggest banning them (if you even could), but that is the brunt of it. If traders had to develop their own routes, the incomes would be vastly altered. It looks like FD are investigating ways of closing the perceived gap, but it will never be enough to satisfy everyone, and one could argue that persistent complaining on the Forum will get the Dev's to change things. Expect the complaints to continue, or accelerate even.

To make this happen there are 2 prerequisites.

1st is to have a possibilities of trading history on board at least if you cant get a trading computer.
2nd is to have a fluctuating dynamic economy where prices, demand and supply may vary quickly.

The first is making the online tools obsolete and the second make them somewhat not predictable. You can use it for trends but you are never sure.

Regards,
Miklos

 

[SlackR]

You realise a game is a game regardless of what platform it's on. I've got a whole bunch of friends who've put 1000 hours in to a "console game" and who would want to play a game like elite. Just because cod is a big game on consoles it doesn't mean everyone who owns a console exclusively play cod and has the attention span of a wounded gnat.

I wish people would stop the veiled bigotry towards console. I like a pcmr joke along with the best of them and haven't had a console since the ps1 but some of the wildly accusations thrown at fd bringing this game to a new platform (which will make them more money to put in to development for everyone) borders on Daily Mail level hysteria.

It's certainly not bigotry... Its a perfectly rational concern that the game will be modified to cater for a particular type of gamer. There certainly are people who would enjoy this game in its current guise on the xbox but they are likely not in the majority of console gamers. I don't feel this is an unreasonable statement, nor an unreasonable concern.

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Hey OP, I'm glad you had some fun. Now sell your truck and keep at it. From your post you don't sound that happy with trucking so if you can BH and be happy with it why not keep at it? If trucking is giving you some sort of intimate psychical satisfaction then stop caring what other people complain about and enjoy blazing your own trail .

P.S. 1.2 showed BHunters some FDev love and we appreciate it. We might learn to love you back if you keep it up FDevs. o7

I love all apects and roles of the game. Trading is my favourite but only because in the rift it is like nothing else. After one year the scenery still takes my breath away. Combat is awesome too though!

 

[CMDR Han Solo.]

I am trader... I haul stuff.
I fly where the cargo takes me and my goal is to buy bigger and badder ships that can haul more stuff and make me more credits. I'm a space trucker by trade pure and simple. But heck even a trucker needs to know how to take care of themselves and so I am not averse to shooting down those who would try and take my payload- besides it helps with my anger management issues and breaks up the monotony.

So when I heard that bounty hunters and the like werent happy that I earn more than them I gave the problem some thought (there's plenty of thinking time out in the void)

First up I thought... Tough shiiiii

I'm mean you have an exciting job and hauling crap from A to B ain't exactly fun you know! plus ive seen you all hanging out in the spacebars, all suave and leathered up....The ladies aren't exactly flocking round me you know! Spacetruckins not exactly a glamorous job and the last time I could fit into a pair of leather pants was pre- flight school!

But after shooting down a few nasties on route to an extraction planet I noticed that the bounties were actually rather tasty. As an experiment I took my ship off course full to bursting with palladium and headed to a RES.
20 mins later and not even half way through Lynrd Skynrds first seminal album I was 280 000 creds better off and had not one scratch on my hull.

Huh?
Now it took me a good long while to earn enough creds to buy a ship that could make that kind of profit inside 20 mins doin what I do, so I really don't see what all the fuss is about?!?

Anyways there it is ... A simple trucker turned bounty hunter for less than half an hour and wondering why everyone's moaning!
See you around commanders

Agreed 100%