About the Ride Sequencer

[EndDays]

So I think it's awesome that flat rides will now have some level of customization!

However... I expected one of the primary features of a ride sequencer would be the amount of time spent on each element or the number of "cycles" of each element. For example "Forward Flip" and then either "xx Times" or "xx Seconds". This would also apply to super simple rides like the carousel to determine ride length.

And then, here's the idea to give this extra management depth (and more depth = [yesnod])... The ability to have different sequences based on queue length. Many theme parks make the flat ride sequences shorter when the queues are long to allow more people to ride per hour, but then give longer ride sequences when the queues are short for greater ride satisfaction.

I think if we could at least setup two different sequences that automatically change based on queue length as well as customize the length of the different elements, this feature will be perfect.

... And of course hopefully guest brains prefer to go on rides with shorter queues like in real life.

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Oooh. Just thought of this too... Maybe you have to have your ride operator employee trained to a certain level to unlock the ability to have multiple sequences for the ride. This would add more interesting depth to reasons to train your employees.

 

[td3000]

100% Agree with this. Perhaps have it so that you can pre-programme a number of ride cycles, then have a drop down menu to select which one to use when the next cycle begins. So, for example, you have 'Cycle One' currently but the queue has gone crazy, mid-ride cycle you select 'Cycle Two' from a drop down menu. Following the completion of the current ride cycle and the new set of guests has loaded, 'Cycle Two' will now be in place. Much like real life. In PC terms, it'd work a bit like the new staff rostering in terms of the UI.

This would be much preferred to having to close the queue line, empty the queue line, create a new cycle, test the ride and then reopen it!

 

[simcoaster_87]

So I think it's awesome that flat rides will now have some level of customization!

However... I expected one of the primary features of a ride sequencer would be the amount of time spent on each element or the number of "cycles" of each element. For example "Forward Flip" and then either "xx Times" or "xx Seconds". This would also apply to super simple rides like the carousel to determine ride length.

And then, here's the idea to give this extra management depth (and more depth = [yesnod])... The ability to have different sequences based on queue length. Many theme parks make the flat ride sequences shorter when the queues are long to allow more people to ride per hour, but then give longer ride sequences when the queues are short for greater ride satisfaction.

I think if we could at least setup two different sequences that automatically change based on queue length as well as customize the length of the different elements, this feature will be perfect.

... And of course hopefully guest brains prefer to go on rides with shorter queues like in real life.

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Oooh. Just thought of this too... Maybe you have to have your ride operator employee trained to a certain level to unlock the ability to have multiple sequences for the ride. This would add more interesting depth to reasons to train your employees.

Kinda like in real life theme parks, for example I throw in Disney world MK, they can do this in real life, like if they been there before in past, then they come back in the future say Hey!! This ride was cut by 1min shorter in the future, the past of same ride was used to be 2mins longer. Because they are there to make money!! So Disney World again for example had this in real life for years.

Here is for Example http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/ridelength.htm

 

[Curlyriff]

Yes to all of this because at moment it feels very limited on management and this would certainly be a good step forward. I am not sure it will happen and the management to those 5 levels and what they affect seems limited to a point. Ride sequence being unlocked by being trained to lvl.2, adjustable sequence length based on queue time unlocked at lvl.4 for instance.

But yeah not likely to be happening based on what they are doing with the basics of management [sad]

 

[Angelis1]

[...] But yeah not likely to be happening based on what they are doing with the basics of management [sad]

I'm more a "Designer" than a "Manager" (I will try the scenarios for few hours, then spend 99% of my time in the sandbox part of the game after that) so it's pretty hard to understand but ... What is wrong with the basics of management ? Real question here !

Maybe it could be great to make a complete new message/topic about what is missing in your opinion.
I'm really curious to know what concrete features are missing.

If you or another "Manager" want to answer me, that could be very nice, because I'm really curious to understand your point of view about this, and I have trouble understanding what you want precisely. [sad]

I see the word "management", but it is vague.
I'm not talking about the ride sequencer here, but more generally.

 

[Curlyriff]

I'm more a "Designer" than a "Manager" (I will try the scenarios for few hours, then spend 99% of my time in the sandbox part of the game after that) so it's pretty hard to understand but ... What is wrong with the basics of management ? Real question here !

Maybe it could be great to make a complete new message/topic about what is missing in your opinion.
I'm really curious to know what concrete features are missing.

If you or another "Manager" want to answer me, that could be very nice, because I'm really curious to understand your point of view about this, and I have trouble understanding what you want precisely. [sad]

I see the word "management", but it is vague.
I'm not talking about the ride sequencer here, but more generally.

No problem. A lot of the thoughts of what Management is to myself and the others that I feel see 'management matters' & 'simulation evolved' are in the live stream thread but if no one by the end of the day has started a proper 'management' topic by tonight I will do one to explain it more on my view point.

In general though, I am the opposite to you on how I will play the game as I will never touch sandbox. It just to me doesn't feel as rewarding as it does to manage the park whilst aiming for goals/targets etc that the scenario play offers.

I want to complete these scenarios to the best of my ability whilst doing all the creative and management that I like to see how it turns out and how I can improve my understanding of the game and improve next time I play through.

At the moment it all feels a little shallow that I wouldn't need to play through more than once and be done with it which is a shame. The reason I can replay games such as Theme Hospital is because the management although seemingly basic on the outside has a lot of 'deep management' behind it where staff require their needs to be attended to give the best back.

So yeah, there are a lot of thoughts to this that are also hard to put into words.

 

[Noxue]

Really? I think PC blows us away with cool and luxury features as this, it's so awesome. And still people want more.... [wacky]

 

[Replica]

I'm more a "Designer" than a "Manager" (I will try the scenarios for few hours, then spend 99% of my time in the sandbox part of the game after that) so it's pretty hard to understand but ... What is wrong with the basics of management ? Real question here !

Maybe it could be great to make a complete new message/topic about what is missing in your opinion.
I'm really curious to know what concrete features are missing.

If you or another "Manager" want to answer me, that could be very nice, because I'm really curious to understand your point of view about this, and I have trouble understanding what you want precisely. [sad]

I see the word "management", but it is vague.
I'm not talking about the ride sequencer here, but more generally.

People want a more engaging system to provide them with more of a challenge and sense of progression and accomplishment.

It's a bit like if you play an RPG, and the experience revolves around your character growing and becoming better over time, finding better loot, managing your resources and so on.
It wouldn't feel quite the same if you started a new game, and was already max level with the best gear right.

The people who enjoy the type of gameplay that requires some degree of involvement and thought (the challenge) don't enjoy full on sandbox the same way you might, because it might give the impression of there not really being anything to strive towards other than "build a pretty park".

Some people are griping about the way Planet Coaster is being set up because it seems very heavily focused on the whole create and design aspect, with the management mechanics being designed to be a more simplified kind of thing on the side (the biggest concern people are having is that it will be too easy).

 

[Curlyriff]

Really? I think PC blows us away with cool and luxury features as this, it's so awesome. And still people want more.... [wacky]

But we could do this in older games. it isn't anything new? Yeah it allows slightly new ways to do it but don't take that as something that is mind blowing. It is like square corner paths everyone is so excited about. Sorry but that should have been a given that square and round corners would be available. Some people seem to be easily pleased.

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People want a more engaging system to provide them with more of a challenge and sense of progression and accomplishment.

It's a bit like if you play an RPG, and the experience revolves around your character growing and becoming better over time, finding better loot, managing your resources and so on.
It wouldn't feel quite the same if you started a new game, and was already max level with the best gear right.

The people who enjoy the type of gameplay that requires some degree of involvement and thought (the challenge) don't enjoy full on sandbox the same way you might, because it might give the impression of there not really being anything to strive towards other than "build a pretty park".

Some people are griping about the way Planet Coaster is being set up because it seems very heavily focused on the whole create and design aspect, with the management mechanics being designed to be a more simplified kind of thing on the side (the biggest concern people are having is that it will be too easy).

Cheers for that explanation as you have put that into a great context that many gamers may understand that did not previous.

 

[Abletudu]

The hard core gamers might find it a bit easy, but consider the non-hard core gamer. Would they find it as easy? You have to remember that Frontier has to make the game appealing to as wide an audience as possible in order to make a profit. As passionate as the developers are, and their passion for the game really shows, they do have to make a profit because Frontier is a business and businesses have to profit to keep operating. It is this wide audience appeal that gives them a mark of success, profit, and inspires and allows them to continue to make games that we all can enjoy.

 

[Curlyriff]

I am sorry but I am only a casual gamer but I will learn how to do things for a game. I think this "hardcore" and "casual" just always leads to simplistic games with less depth. I would also say there are so many "hardcore" features for the creativity side compared to management that it still appears that it continues to show that developers still under-estimate what gamers can do and understand.

 

[Abletudu]

What about all the younger players that can't understand all the management details that you want yet want to do the scenarios? Is Frontier supposed to say to them, "sorry you can't play these since you don't know enough about managing a park"?

 

[Angelis1]

No problem. A lot of the thoughts of what Management is to myself and the others that I feel see 'management matters' & 'simulation evolved' are in the live stream thread but if no one by the end of the day has started a proper 'management' topic by tonight I will do one to explain it more on my view point.

In general though, I am the opposite to you on how I will play the game as I will never touch sandbox. It just to me doesn't feel as rewarding as it does to manage the park whilst aiming for goals/targets etc that the scenario play offers.

I want to complete these scenarios to the best of my ability whilst doing all the creative and management that I like to see how it turns out and how I can improve my understanding of the game and improve next time I play through.

At the moment it all feels a little shallow that I wouldn't need to play through more than once and be done with it which is a shame. The reason I can replay games such as Theme Hospital is because the management although seemingly basic on the outside has a lot of 'deep management' behind it where staff require their needs to be attended to give the best back.

So yeah, there are a lot of thoughts to this that are also hard to put into words.

People want a more engaging system to provide them with more of a challenge and sense of progression and accomplishment.

It's a bit like if you play an RPG, and the experience revolves around your character growing and becoming better over time, finding better loot, managing your resources and so on.
It wouldn't feel quite the same if you started a new game, and was already max level with the best gear right.

The people who enjoy the type of gameplay that requires some degree of involvement and thought (the challenge) don't enjoy full on sandbox the same way you might, because it might give the impression of there not really being anything to strive towards other than "build a pretty park".

Some people are griping about the way Planet Coaster is being set up because it seems very heavily focused on the whole create and design aspect, with the management mechanics being designed to be a more simplified kind of thing on the side (the biggest concern people are having is that it will be too easy).

Hummmm ... I probably expressed myself poorly sorry ... [sad]

I really understand the "concept" behind the management. It's not my question here in fact.
What I don't understand is : What concrete features are missing ?

To take a parallel with the "Design" aspect, let's say about "darkrides" for exemple.
I know that a dakride is a tracked ride which is more fun to build than a fair rides, that is made to tell stories, etc...
But the 4 concrete features missings are :

- 1) The different models of dark rides existing on the market (just like the coasters)
- 2) A way to have "dark" rooms if there are no sources of lights in the building
- 3) The possibility to import our custom pictures/GIF/video to stick on walls textures, and custom music to stick on speakers (to tell our stories)
- 4) switches/sensors/triggers/what-ever-the-name to activate animated objects (like doors, animatronics, VFX)

It's pretty clear and precise.

Can you do the same for the management aspect ? What is missing in your opinion ?
Because at the moment, what I read in your answers are just feelings, emotions and desires (which I understand), but that does not seem to be embodied in specific game mechanics, and it's hard for me (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) to understand what you expect, precisely.

Scenarios are coming, with objectives, you have a general stats pannel, and a control pannel on every building, you have a research system, loans, patrol system for mascots, between meeting points.
What "features" would be nice to add to it for "Evolved Simulation" becomes true ?

It's not a troll or something, I really try to understand what you expect, to make this game, the best game for you.
I really want to know.

 

[Curlyriff]

What about all the younger players that can't understand all the management details that you want yet want to do the scenarios? Is Frontier supposed to say to them, "sorry you can't play these since you don't know enough about managing a park"?

I was 12 when I played the older games that had more detailed management with no issues tbh. They don't have to be complex. Allowing things to unlock from training a staff member and equip them with tools for the task is no different to the Research the game is providing and to me it would add depth to have it where say;

Janitor - Training

Training in waste management - allow for use of 'item x' (such as litter picking arm)

Costs = $12 to equip per janitor, increases speed & efficiency by 6%,

To complete training janitor has to go to the training facility and an external trainer. This costs time (for the janitor to walk to the facility and then to be trained) and money (the cost of the training as it is now). The training facility could hold up to 6 janitors to train at the same time.

This is just one small aspect that adds to the management and to what is already in the game with training levels.

It could be that when you select an employee type for instance the janitor and they have been fully trained then you can select the different items, equipment and clothing like the character customisation screen or when you select weapons & load out in an FPS game.

In regards to Marketing, I was expecting to see more than a menu options with a backstage building such as marketing office, you would train your marketing manager who then can unlock further marketing options. Not just select it from a menu. I don't want to play a menu simulation game. I want to be able to interact with the park and the world to manage my park as well.

I hope this also helps with what your asking for Angelis a little with what I would like to improve on the management side. The missing part is the backstage areas with which we need to unlock and manage to make other parts viable.

The reason we can't say so much we need A, B, C & D to make this is that it's game mechanics through and through rather than item or models as such.

 

[Paul_UK]

I personally think that the current system as illustrated is more than enough, you have to have limits somewhere - and was a huge surprise to boot!

 

[Abletudu]

They don't have to be complex. Allowing things to unlock from training a staff member and equip them with tools for the task is no different to the Research the game is providing and to me it would add depth to have it where say;

Janitor - Training

Training in waste management - allow for use of 'item x' (such as litter picking arm)

Costs = $12 to equip per janitor

I would term this micromanagement.

To complete training janitor has to go to the training facility and an external trainer. This costs time (for the janitor to walk to the facility and then to be trained) and money (the cost of the training as it is now). The training facility could hold up to 6 janitors to train at the same time.

Causing a rewrite of the janitors AI and possibly a delay of the game. Also, when code is changed from something that works it might introduce bugs somewhere else entirely. If they want to change this at some time after release, I would say that I have no problem with that. We had a saying in the Army, and I've heard it elsewhere also, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" So, I say for the time being leave well enough alone.

Besides, we don't really know how deep this side of the game goes until we actually play it.

 

[Curlyriff]

I would term this micromanagement.



Causing a rewrite of the janitors AI and possibly a delay of the game. Also, when code is changed from something that works it might introduce bugs somewhere else entirely. If they want to change this at some time after release, I would say that I have no problem with that. We had a saying in the Army, and I've heard it elsewhere also, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" So, I say for the time being leave well enough alone.

I am not suggesting doing this now. We had a thread on this months ago with these ideas in. They have not happened and we are expressing our opinion that what we have is shallow.

And maybe you do, I call that management though and it is like me making sure our technical team has the correct computer to do their design work, that is part of management for my job. Why does it matter if it is 'micro-manage' or 'manage' though because the point is that it's a feature that was discussed on the forum months ago that a long with a lot of others gave some great viewpoints into what 'managers' that game would love to see.

Unfortunately nothing shown so far matches to what anyone in those threads discussed or would like in a management aspect. And I feel this is down to having no time for it to be tested in an Alpha build like all the creativity and design side of the game has.

"Management matters" as they have stated it honestly doesn't feel like it and all the way through feels like a 2nd rate cousin that has a few features that are all glossy to cover up that it really isn't very deep. Sorry but that is all I am seeing from this and am disappointed.

It appears unless it is a new ride or texture we are not allowed to express our opinions on the forum without a few stating "so what? You have this feature to play with so stop quibbling"

 

[Abletudu]

As I said,"Besides, we don't really know how deep this side of the game goes until we actually play it."

 

[Curlyriff]

We had a saying in the Army, and I've heard it elsewhere also, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" So, I say for the time being leave well enough alone.

But to us it is broken, you could of said that to all the feature of the game such as the terrain, the paths, the previous AI. So yeah not sure that is really a view that works at all either and again seems to brushed under the rug.

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As I said,"Besides, we don't really know how deep this side of the game goes until we actually play it."

I am sorry but we can clearly see from the menus how deep a lot of it is though, we can see what is missing quite quickly from there. We can see the number of different staff members and we know how the training works, we know that we cannot select different equipment for the staff etc.

That is all there to be seen.

 

[Angelis1]

Ok so, for you Curlyriff, what is missing is :

- More staff members (Like Security guards ? Administrators ? Imagineer ?)
- Advanced training pannel (With selection of the equipment for each staff member ?)
- Backstage areas buildings (Like a staff rest room ? Cafeteria ? Administrative offices ? Research building ? this kind of things ?)

Am I right ?