Accidental friendly fire has to be sorted.

Remiel

Banned
Remiel
BrewerGeorge said:
Nonsense. Realism is all well and good, but I swear some of you people are masochists. As I've said before, just because there is a way to work around a broken mechanic doesn't change the fact that the mechanic is broken. At the end of the day, this is a game. A game for which bounty hunting is supposed to be a major component. This mechanic as it currently exists makes bounty hunting unnecessarily difficult, and worse causes an ultimate penalty (bounty and death) for a harmless mistake.

I'm not saying there should be free shots, or any of the other proposals to remove consequences from player actions. I would just like the AI pilots to have a little more care for their own safety - adding realism.
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I'm not a masochist, I'm just not lazy when I start shooting. I take aim, check my line of sight when I know non-hostiles are about, and make sure I'm hitting what I'm intending to hit. I'm paying attention to my peripherals and watching for movement in case someone's about to cross my path. Any sign that it's about to happen, and I lift my finger off the trigger and adjust my own position for a different angle. It's more realistic for a pilot to pay attention to what's going on in front of them in the middle of combat then it is for another pilot to check their six in case a friendly is shooting in their direction, especially when the latter is also watching ahead for a target. I find it utterly abhorrent that people attempting aerospace combat are asking... no, demanding, that things they shouldn't be shooting be kept out of their way instead of making the effort to aim better. This isn't COD, where you can just turn off friendly fire, point, and shoot.
 

Malkurn

M
It's easy to say hold your fire but it's hard to call back a projectile once it's been fired. I have had security vessels fly right into my multicannon fire after I had already released the trigger. I have not had any friendly fire incidents since switching to energy weapons.
 

Riepah

Riepah
Remiel said:
I'm not a masochist, I'm just not lazy when I start shooting.
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You're suggesting that the AI shouldn't be fixed. So you'd rather fight stupid enemies, with the only danger being that you have to watch your fire to avoid hitting stupid teammates who would turn on you for a single stray shot, even though they'll happily stray shot you to hell. People asking for better AI aren't asking for an easy mode. They're asking for some reasonable fights, for space to actually be a bit dangerous like the name of the game would suggest, and for both hostiles and friendlies acting in a believable manner. The fact that everyone and their mother will instantly consider you priority target number 1 for a single stray shot even when there are actual murderers and other criminals with bounties in the tens of thousands on their heads spits in the face of anyone who tries to immerse themselves in this game, of anyone who attempts to take this universe seriously.

Having to watch your fire is not really the issue here.
 

BrewerGeorge

BrewerGeorge
Remiel said:
I'm not a masochist, I'm just not lazy when I start shooting. I take aim, check my line of sight when I know non-hostiles are about, and make sure I'm hitting what I'm intending to hit. I'm paying attention to my peripherals and watching for movement in case someone's about to cross my path. Any sign that it's about to happen, and I lift my finger off the trigger and adjust my own position for a different angle. It's more realistic for a pilot to pay attention to what's going on in front of them in the middle of combat then it is for another pilot to check their six in case a friendly is shooting in their direction, especially when the latter is also watching ahead for a target. I find it utterly abhorrent that people attempting aerospace combat are asking... no, demanding, that things they shouldn't be shooting be kept out of their way instead of making the effort to aim better. This isn't COD, where you can just turn off friendly fire, point, and shoot.
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Do YOU fly between a Sec Force ship shooting a target? I'm betting not. Why do they when you are shooting? The way that the AI will run right over us on the way to its target makes me wonder if they even know we are there at all.

I get that you're envisioning yourself as Maverick not shooting Jester because Iceman is in the way trying to line up a shot. But that's not the situation we're discussing. Because the AI does not currently respect our ships or fear our weapons, we are Iceman trying to line up a shot on Jester while the Sec Force is Maverick barreling right over top of us (sometimes actually colliding with us), getting hit by our weapons and then punishing us for it.

Malkurn said:
It's easy to say hold your fire but it's hard to call back a projectile once it's been fired. I have had security vessels fly right into my multicannon fire after I had already released the trigger. I have not had any friendly fire incidents since switching to energy weapons.
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Exactly.
 

inoperable

I
IF that MECHANIC is FINE as it is- then WHY so many PLAYERS don't find it FINE?
Dude, read the case I describe, put some arguments in the discussion - otherwise it's a brick talk...
 

Helfix

H
I don't think that the mechanic is fine as is. I've had a handful of times where a local security forces goes right through my line of fire without me being able to stop in time. I do not think that it is generally fair that for instance when you get into security forces line of fire accidentally it's "ok" but when we do it, we are instantly hunted by them.

The system should be either:

1). Give the player a fine which they have to pay within x amount of time.
2). Give the player a warning to either stop their fire on the "friendly force" or get punished by a fine/get shot themselves. But it should not be an instant attack because of an accident.

I would totally understand the current mechanic if the player constantly kept firing at the security force or was just killing them outright on purpose, hence why the current response by the security forces is reasonable. But it's another matter if its done by accident. Even in real world there are consequences for police shooting at innocent people if you want to stick with realism.
 

Flt_Lt_Marsh

Flt_Lt_Marsh
BimblesDidums said:
So I wipe out a Conda to then have a fed fly in front of me copping a shot. Instantly all feds are after me. F%$@#$%^#@%%^^&:mad:.

This has to be sorted, it is extremely annoying. And if anyone says you have to watch out for them, how can you when they come from behind.
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Yeah, you wouldnt fly infront of somebody who is attacking a target, so the AI needs to be smarter imo.
 

Renball

R
why not just have the AI Security recognize that you targeted/locked on to another ship, not it, so when flies into your fire, you don't get wanted, maybe still a fine to pay. Now if you target the security service or friendly and fire then yes you get wanted status.
 

Slategrey252

S
BrewerGeorge said:
That's because we live in a world where one hit with a common weapon always has deadly consequences. And, I might add, that real life police respect that reality by not charging headlong into firefights. Elite is not that world. It takes dozens of shots with anything but the largest of weapons to cause real damage, and the Sec forces don't protect themselves at all.


Nonsense. Realism is all well and good, but I swear some of you people are masochists. As I've said before, just because there is a way to work around a broken mechanic doesn't change the fact that the mechanic is broken. At the end of the day, this is a game. A game for which bounty hunting is supposed to be a major component. This mechanic as it currently exists makes bounty hunting unnecessarily difficult, and worse causes an ultimate penalty (bounty and death) for a harmless mistake.

I'm not saying there should be free shots, or any of the other proposals to remove consequences from player actions. I would just like the AI pilots to have a little more care for their own safety - adding realism.
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I don't find the "mechanic" broken. Same thing happens to real pilots flying real planes using real ammunition.
 

ycodryn

Y
keep an eye on radar? really? most of you talk only to say something? op is right.. why is my fault when i'm targeting someone, i'm frying him with canons and some idiot come in front of my bullets and engage same target. he should stay away from my fire not me.
 
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Slategrey252

S
AndyHill said:
His wingmen immediately turn on him and shoot him down?
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He gets court-martialled, imprisoned and/or discharged if he survives. The point probably badly put on my part is that there are consequences. If you are not a member of the police (and therefore not a wingman) then shooting one in elite will get you shot. Its a dangerous universe out there. Situational awareness is key, and if the poo does happen then its because the universe has taken a dislike to you.

I've been involved in a few fur balls where police vipers have run in front of me. My solution has always been to get as close to my target as possible, and not have my finger welded down on the fire button. So far no friendly fire incidents.
 

AndyHill

A
Well as you mentioned in real world you get a fair trial where your actions are examined and the severity of the situation is determined. Let's just say that situations that had no damage done and no danger caused (more than could be expected in a war zone) don't tend to end careers very quickly.

So why should Elite be so brutal that first your wingmen will try to kill you and then if you manage to escape them you have to land, run to the officers' club and deposit five pounds into the oops box before the MPs find you or they will gun you down on sight?

My stats are not exactly worth bragging, but I have some experience in combat at 643 kills / 5.5MCR bounties / Expert, currently I make my living by hunting pirate lord anacondas (luckily there are usually few other spacecraft in those instances). I've had a few friendly fire incidents during my career and if someone has managed to get about as far or further without one THEN I'm interested in hearing what the trick is.

However, it's not about anyone's skill. The AI (especially the cops) do it all the time, which leads to hilariously stupid and immersion breaking situations. There's nothing any human can do about that, except perhaps for FD programmers.
 

CMDR Sickie

C
I've now had a couple of friendly fire incidents, and there has been nothing I could have done about either.

It doesn't seem to be ships involved in the fight with the craft you are shooting that are the problem, as they tend to behave predictably and can easily be avoided by checking your fire. The problem for me seems to be the ship's that are either out of position or not directly in the fight, these ships will cut between you and the target at great speed, and perpendicular to your line of travel, leaving you with 0 chance of avoiding friendly fire.

It's not a massive problem as it doesn't happen all the time, yet it's nevertheless a problem, and should be addressed.
 

Im_Lost

I
There is no issue here. I've had it happen maybe a couple of times and just paid off the 400c or whatever it was. Just don't shoot at stuff when other ships are near your crosshairs.

If your using projectile weapons get closer. They are less effective at range any way.
 
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AndyHill

A
Nasher said:
There is no issue here. I've had it happen maybe a couple of times and just paid off the 400c or whatever it was. Just don't shoot at stuff when other ships are near your crosshairs.

If your using projectile weapons get closer. They are less effective at range any way.
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But how should we tell that to the AI? It would be nice if for example cops coming to the rescue of an AI Lakon didn't end up shooting the Lakon because of a stray shot from a turret and me having to facepalm at the silliness of the universe instead of immersing in it.
 
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