Add exploration data cloud saving as option internal module

[Aella Fess]

I find it really silly that in so technologically advanced universe as is presented in ED the concept of cloud saving is totally absent. You can order your ship to move from one system to another even if it is as distant as Colonia to Bubble but apparently if your ship is destroyed and it contained exploration data even from inside the Bubble you have no way to recover it and all is lost. So my proposal is to add optional internal module that would automatically send gathered exploration data into the cloud that could be later sold at Universal Cartographics. It could, and probably should, require also fee to operate - even an expensive one so that it wouldn't be an obvious choice - maybe like 15% of all exploration data income?
The pain to loose large amount of data from distant exploration is so punishing that I cannot see any gameplay reason justification to keep it. Sure, loosing ships for explorers is extremely rare, compared to miners or traders but still - it would be, IMO, both immersive and just resolution to problem some people have.

 

[Taifu]

The pain to loose large amount of data from distant exploration is so punishing that I cannot see any gameplay reason justification to keep it.

Errrm... risk maybe, because...

loosing ships for explorers is extremely rare, compared to miners or traders

 

[nanite2000]

Agreed OP! Another much requested and much desired suggestion over the years is a time-limited Black Box that you can recover.

I (personally) prefer the black box idea because it provides a gameplay incentive for the player to return to their point of destruction as quickly as possible, without making exploration any easier.

The nay-sayers will inevitably (and already have, I see) oppose your idea because they don't value their own time, and so don't see losing months of gameplay progress as being any worse than losing a few hours of progress.

 

[Aella Fess]

Agreed OP! Another much requested and much desired suggestion over the years is a time-limited Black Box that you can recover.

I (personally) prefer the black box idea because it provides a gameplay incentive for the player to return to their point of destruction as quickly as possible, without making exploration any easier.

The nay-sayers will inevitably (and already have, I see) oppose your idea because they don't value their own time, and so don't see losing months of gameplay progress as being any worse than losing a few hours of progress.

Well, when I think of the black box idea it indeed seems as better feature from gameplay perspective and it also could be introduced with much less work from the dev team!

 

[angusmadmac1]

If I find a crashed ship I should be able to get some data out of it . The First discoveries should go to the original finder and a part of the cash goes to you for finding it ? As long as you didn't PvP the ship . This can also be encoded data USS in deep space ?? . You may get hints of other systems around ??

 

[LeoBartlet]

Welcome to another episode of please remove risk or consequences from the game.

 

[Florenus]

I find it really silly that in so technologically advanced universe as is presented in ED the concept of cloud saving is totally absent. You can order your ship to move from one system to another even if it is as distant as Colonia to Bubble but apparently if your ship is destroyed and it contained exploration data even from inside the Bubble you have no way to recover it and all is lost. So my proposal is to add optional internal module that would automatically send gathered exploration data into the cloud that could be later sold at Universal Cartographics. It could, and probably should, require also fee to operate - even an expensive one so that it wouldn't be an obvious choice - maybe like 15% of all exploration data income?
The pain to loose large amount of data from distant exploration is so punishing that I cannot see any gameplay reason justification to keep it. Sure, loosing ships for explorers is extremely rare, compared to miners or traders but still - it would be, IMO, both immersive and just resolution to problem some people have.

They've added solution to your problem some time ago.
It's called Fleet Carrier with Universal Cartographic service.
You can bring it with you and sell exploration data anywhere and anytime you wish.

 

[Aella Fess]

Welcome to another episode of please remove risk or consequences from the game.

Or maybe welcome to another episode of I value my time and don't want to have experiance ruined by some third factor, often not my own fault, because I'm not hardcore PvP player but single loner who enjoys playing the game alone and actually has a limited time to play due to some silly facts about, you know, real life happening and playing Elite Dangerous is a way to relax, not stress more?
If I suggested that no data whatsoever should be removed, then sure - your statement would be true. But I did no such thing.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Or maybe welcome to another episode of I value my time and don't want to have experiance ruined by some third factor, often not my own fault, because I'm not hardcore PvP player but single loner who enjoys playing the game alone and actually has a limited time to play due to some silly facts about, you know, real life happening and playing Elite Dangerous is a way to relax, not stress more?

Bit long if I'm honest.

 

[Aella Fess]

Bit long if I'm honest.

Yeah, my brain cells melted when I read what I wrote.

 

[nanite2000]

Welcome to another episode of please remove risk or consequences from the game.

Welcome to another episode of please stop wasting our time.

 

[nanite2000]

They've added solution to your problem some time ago.
It's called Fleet Carrier with Universal Cartographic service.
You can bring it with you and sell exploration data anywhere and anytime you wish.

Fleet carriers are prohibitively expensive for most players, require extra work to fuel and maintain, and are restricted to 1 jump every 15 mins, so are not a viable solution.

 

[Sysmon]

Fleet carriers are prohibitively expensive for most players, require extra work to fuel and maintain, and are restricted to 1 jump every 15 mins, so are not a viable solution.

And also, the addition of UC to carriers was only done to shut up the fraction of the exploration community that thought they should be able to bring their carriers anywhere without risk or consequence. From a game mechanical perspective, having a mobile money printer is an insanely silly idea.. Yet here we are, living with the fallout of FD catering to those that didn't want risk or consequence in the game rather than making carrier gameplay interesting in itself.

S

 

[Florenus]

Fleet carriers are prohibitively expensive for most players, require extra work to fuel and maintain, and are restricted to 1 jump every 15 mins, so are not a viable solution.

Really? So you want to remove last remnants of risk from exploration without being forced to work for it first?

I'm not enjoying Space Engine too much. You know why? Because it's not much of a game.

 

[nanite2000]

Really? So you want to remove last remnants of risk from exploration without being forced to work for it first?

No. I want to preserve what little risk there currently is and not waste my time unnecessarily whilst also adding a gameplay incentive to resume exploration after losing weeks/months of progress.

I’m sorry you don’t understand that.

I'm not enjoying Space Engine too much. You know why? Because it's not much of a game.

I fail to see how that is relevant.

 

[Aella Fess]

If you are explorer you don't enjoy taking risk as much as smuggler, pirate or mercenary does. People tend to do exploring in order to avoid unnecessary risk in their playthroughs. How can you people fail to see that it isn't fun to loose your progress? Let's say I discover and map 100 systems that nobody touched before, I spent week or two doing it and I'm a simple human being and I really would like to see my damn nickname showing on every damn star in that 100ly radius. So I take a trip to the closest station, it takes me 50 jumps, more than an hour of travelling alone and guess what - something silly can happen. It could be my fault, like crashing into other ship or planet but it can be a third party factor - like getting interdicted for no reason or real life situation (I had once my kid waking and crying in the night, had to quickly go to him and my ship was flying over the planet. When I returned I found it crashed. Sure, you can say it's my fault because I didn't think about stopping engines or shutting down the game but even if it was my fault I don't think that the right punishment would be to take away from me the work I've been doing for last couple of hours/days/weeks).
I think that people who argue for the risk associated with data loss are not really considering that ED is a game that's meant to be enjoyed and reward players for their activities. Or they just don't value their time spent on the game so much.
Are you afraid that exploration would become more profitable, would be unbalanced? I think that exploration shouldn't be considered to be balanced at all - you balance things that resolve around social activities, player to player ones. Those who choose to be explorers are mostly staying away from other people so even if they would earn more money than other professions this wouldn't upset the balance of the game... Unless you argue that top PvP players would stop playing PvP for a week in order to get rich by exploring 3k ly away from Sol... But I don't really see that happening.
And the carrier solution is really silly argument. I would have to discover and map thousands of systems before I could aquire carrier. Only after getting extremely rich I would have the ability to lower data loss risk. Also, it isn't very immersive solution.
@Florenus - are you saying that exploration in ED is like playing Space Engine? Also, working, as you said, for explorers is not associated with risk of data loss. It's tied to cutting ties with the rest of the community. Flying away from the civilization. Doing 100 jumps in a row in order to reach destination where you want to spend next month doing over and over the same things. And the result is basically map painting, seeing how many systems you were able to visit, map... And the only reward for an explorer is their name sticked forever to the places they discovered. Once someone has enough money to buy ship able to do 50/60 ly jumps they won't value credits as much as before.

 

[ATinyFurryRodent]

I think the OPs idea could work but with some caveats. Basically, you are limited by a frame shift drive to travel. Even data can't go faster than light speed. However, within the scope of Elite rules, you 'could' perhaps launch a 'probe' to the nearest station/carrier with FSD capability which would effectively be like a cloud save. This would require something like a new SLF bay but for FSD capable probes. I think it would be best if there were a limited number of these probes that you could chuck out periodically to save your exploration data but if you run out then you're back to the usual situation.

Perhaps, since a SLF typically can't have an FSD drive due to it's size, though you could make up some story about a compact tech FSD drive I suppose, it would be best if you limited probe launch bays to size 7 minimum. This would limit you to larger ships such as the conda but I don't think that's so bad. It also gives you an incentive to use that over say the Krait Phantom for exploration which is sometimes a more convenient choice for other reasons including jump range; the conda has good jump and a variety of good slots for that purpose and has a spare 7 slot.

Thoughts?

Cmdr ASmallFurryRodent o7

 

[Florenus]

No. I want to preserve what little risk there currently is and not waste my time unnecessarily whilst also adding a gameplay incentive to resume exploration after losing weeks/months of progress.

I’m sorry you don’t understand that.

I fail to see how that is relevant.

What risk do you want to preserve if you have very little to loose?

My comparison to Space Engine is based on the fact that in Elite you must take certain factors into consideration. There's risk and obstacles to overcome. That's what makes it a game instead of screenshot generator or boring credit farm.

And the carrier solution is really silly argument. I would have to discover and map thousands of systems before I could aquire carrier. Only after getting extremely rich I would have the ability to lower data loss risk. Also, it isn't very immersive solution.

Well, thank you. Your whole idea is silly too.

Firstly - you don't know what "extremely rich" means in Elite. I'm not nearly as rich as some players, but I can afford 4 Fleet Carriers.
Secondly - that's how those things work in games. After playing a game for some time you are able to afford things that makes cartain task easier. But you must earn it first.

Introduction of FC changed things as far as exploration goes, because you can now find them in every corner of the galaxy (DSSA for example), so risk of loosing months of data due to accident is considerably lower. That's also part of Elite being an MMO - if you can't do something yourself, you can do it with others. If you want to carry a personal save box with you it'll cost you one FC and upkeep.

 

[nanite2000]

What risk do you want to preserve if you have very little to loose?

What incentive is there to resume playing if you lose months worth of progress?

Assuming you're talking about the 'Black Box' concept, which the OP said he liked the idea of anyway, then it will not remove any risk that is already there. You can still get destroyed by Neutron Stars & White Dwarves. You can still crash into planets, or destroy your SRV, etc... The only difference is that you now would have an incentive to get back out there as quickly as possible, whereas there's little to no incentive right now.

I mean, are you basically saying that the only reason you would go out exploring now is because of the risk of being destroyed, and that exploration has nothing else to offer players?

Really?

My comparison to Space Engine is based on the fact that in Elite you must take certain factors into consideration. There's risk and obstacles to overcome. That's what makes it a game instead of screenshot generator or boring credit farm.

If you are saying that adding a black box concept will make the game like Space Engine, then you have a very narrow view on what constitutes 'exploration'.

Exploration is about more than just sightseeing - it's collecting exobiology samples, discovering new lifeforms, exploring new areas, discovering habitable worlds, etc...

Adding a gameplay incentive that rewards players who invest time and effort to pick up where they left off will not turn the game into Space Engine.

Well, thank you. Your whole idea is silly too.

Firstly - you don't know what "extremely rich" means in Elite. I'm not nearly as rich as some players, but I can afford 4 Fleet Carriers.
Secondly - that's how those things work in games. After playing a game for some time you are able to afford things that makes cartain task easier. But you must earn it first.

No - stop that line of thinking.

Just because you choose to spend inordinate amounts of time in-game and don't place any value your personal time doesn't mean other people are the same. I've been playing the game for over 5 years and still haven't earned enough money for even half a fleet carrier, let alone pay it's weekly upkeep.

Does that mean I'm not playing the game the right way? Should I neglect my friends and family and instead grind for credits like you? Perhaps if a black box feature had been implemented last year when I lost 2 months worth of exploration data I might be able to afford a fleet carrier now...? Would that be a good thing or a bad thing for you?

Also, as I mentioned in a previous post, a fleet carrier would not make exploration any 'easier'. They require additional upkeep and refuelling, and you are limited by how (in)frequently they can jump. Even if I could afford a fleet carrier, I still wouldn't choose to purchase one for exploration.

Introduction of FC changed things as far as exploration goes, because you can now find them in every corner of the galaxy (DSSA for example), so risk of loosing months of data due to accident is considerably lower. That's also part of Elite being an MMO - if you can't do something yourself, you can do it with others. If you want to carry a personal save box with you it'll cost you one FC and upkeep.

Well, no one would be forcing you to equip a black box if you went out exploring. Just have it be an optional module, and then you can choose to not equip one so you can continue to experience the same level of danger and risk you have now, while others can benefit from it without impacting your game.

I mean, we're all about player choice here, right??

 

[MickyG1982]

Agreed OP! Another much requested and much desired suggestion over the years is a time-limited Black Box that you can recover.

I (personally) prefer the black box idea because it provides a gameplay incentive for the player to return to their point of destruction as quickly as possible, without making exploration any easier.

The nay-sayers will inevitably (and already have, I see) oppose your idea because they don't value their own time, and so don't see losing months of gameplay progress as being any worse than losing a few hours of progress.

Only, if this "black box" is made visible to other players so anyone can collect it and steal said data. Maybe also adding a storage "core" as a targetable module on ships that could be damaged and therefore drop the core. This core could then be sold on the black market for at least part payment to the player that finds it. To sweeten this, the scanning player could still get the credit for any discoveries made, just not the credits for it.