Advanced auto-pilot system

[dunno]

I am talking about plotting waypoints in system, has nothing to do with jump range.

I know what you mean.
Currently If multiple missions have been selected the relevant systems/stations are tagged, how difficult is it to then manually select a system for a appropriate round robin route ?. baring in mind that one can arrive at the first system/station and pick up a new mission not in YOUR predetermined route, one would have to manually re-plot the route to accommodate the new mission, instead of just opening Gal/Sytem-Map and selecting the Next Destination, very simple for round robins, yes?.

Incorporating a user defined waypoint route into Gal/System-Map's easy to use format, complexity for little gain?.

It is quite easy to write some software that takes topography into account when plotting a path into and out of a port.

Really

 

[dunno]

The L1011 Tristar was fitted with the ability to take off automatically, in fact any aircraft could be retrofitted with the ability, it is just not needed since you have SRS and localizer runway guidance for low visibility.

It isn't the ability to see which has prohibited automatic take-off in a civilian airliner, if that were the primary criteria then high visibility Auto-Take-Off's would be the norm, and to date every single take-Off in a civilian airliner is manual.

There are only two instances which have and do utilise Auto-Take-Off, The Blackbird SR71, and Aircraft Carrier launches. It's all about yaw control or the lack thereof during asymmetrical high power engine settings relative to speed, versus human reflexes.

EDIT: I'm uncertain if fixed wing large military drone's do Auto-Take-Off's, no information about their operations, but seeing as all of them are inline single engined aircraft there would be little need for this complexity, except for the Navy Carrier launched UAV's.

 

[Captain Willard]

To all those arguing they don't want autopilot: don't use it. What business is it of yours how other people want to play the game? You play the way you want, let them play the way they want.

The game has always and forever been. One pilot, One ship. DEAL.
It's never been a game of, let the game play itself I'm busy
I can also imagine the tears if your ship was destroyed by npc's or a real player, while you were so busy.

 

[777Driver]

It's all about yaw control or the lack thereof during asymmetrical high power engine settings relative to speed, versus human reflexes.

Hi, that is what TAC is for (Thrust asymmetry compensation) & Vmcg/Vmca. But I think we are kinda hijacking Dwrety's post here!

Really

Relatively speaking I am not a coder, however I ran the beta for a company called Oyster Bay Media, a single dev coded the EGPWS for an A320 sim, and that was way more complicated than what I am suggesting in ED.

@Captain Willard - I think everyone can agree a system could be implemented without it being abused by the masses. However someone will always find a way, just take a look at the botting issue. It would be a shame if we were stuck in the the pre Sperry era (1920's) Just because of Bots or cmdrs wanting to have a cig break. I have no issues docking these ships FA-OFF over the last 4 years, still use a docking computer every now and then, and that has nothing to do with 'Not being bothered to fly my ship'

Also keep in mind that flight assist is essentially an Autopilot, just no guidance. No idea if you are a fellow FA-OFF cmdr, if not I wonder how you would feel about the devs removing that automation from the game?

 

[dunno]

Hi, that is what TAC is for (Thrust asymmetry compensation) & Vmcg/Vmca.

Both those are reliant on human reflexes to execute remedial action, both are speed relative with acres of real estate either side of the aircraft to compensate for pilot error and residual aircraft kinetic energy. After V1 or a go orientated take off I doubt that there is a single system which will automatically fiddle with the thrust levers to compensate for Yaw due to asymmetrical thrust, especially not after V1 on a two engine'd aircraft.

The SR71's take off yaw correction auto pilot is a fantastic illustration of the engineers understanding of the limitation of a human's reflexes, interestingly both the SR71 and L1011 were designed by the same company, Lockheed were way ahead of their time, sadly not emulated by the others.

 

[777Driver]

Both those are reliant on human reflexes to execute remedial action, both are speed relative with acres of real estate either side of the aircraft to compensate for pilot error and residual aircraft kinetic energy. After V1 or a go orientated take off I doubt that there is a single system which will automatically fiddle with the thrust levers to compensate for Yaw due to asymmetrical thrust, especially not after V1 on a two engine'd aircraft.

The SR71's take off yaw correction auto pilot is a fantastic illustration of the engineers understanding of the limitation of a human's reflexes, interestingly both the SR71 and L1011 were designed by the same company, Lockheed were way ahead of their time, sadly not emulated by the others.

Nice info on the SR71

Actually TAC is capable of providing full compensation in the event of Asymetric thrust, is just Boeing philosophy that states the crew should be kept in the loop, for that reason TAC only provides around 90% of the needed compensation via rudder, the crew provide the rest through rudder input. There is no adjustment to thrust, V2 is a single engine climb out speed

Vmcg/Vmca is calculated for every aircraft on departure, as long as those speeds are obeyed (and thrust is not exceeded) only a small amount of rudder input is required to prevent loss of control. We had a bunch of CAE A320 sims at GAA in Bahrain (used to train Gulf Air pilots) was fortunate enough to be offered a late night session whilst one was not in use, the amount of manual input was minimal (No TAC on the A320) and that was using TOGA thrust, can't remember the take off weight used.

Once we were climbing stable and cleaned up the aircraft, manually trimmed the rudder and did a single engine approach. If that was tried below Vmca, you would slow roll into the dead engine and leave a burning hole in the ground, increasing thrust would make the situation worse, reaction time would be irrelevant.

 

[dunno]

increasing thrust would make the situation worse, reaction time would be irrelevant.

you have successfully misplaced my point with great dexterity.

Back on topic. auto pilots in a sim game, nah....

 

[DARGAN]

I am not against it, but without removing everything that would bother him.

that is to say, it is always possible to be intercepted and only to and through the systems already visited.

which would not pose any problem with regard to the bots and force us to keep an eye on the game.

so this autopilot would finally be really effective only for moving (no bounties on his head, and no goods that would attract pirates, and not be registered for powerplay that attracts enemy ships).

it could also be used for a return of exploration for example, passing again by the systems we visited (as suggested in 2).

otherwise it's much too simple, I activate the autopilot and I have no worries .. I may quickly get bored.

 

[777Driver]

Back on topic. auto pilots in a sim game, nah....

Each to their own, I actually enjoy the flight dynamics and hand flying FA-OFF, still ED does seem to be the odd one out when it comes to implementing advanced automation.

Orbitor
X3TC/X4
Pioneer
Star citizen
Rogue System

ED - Spitfires in space

 

[Rdc74656]

I’d have it as an module you buy if you want it, don’t want it don’t buy it.
If you have the “autopilot”module you can go to your navigation tab, select the station, planet based station, USS (if you’ve FSS located it) and then press the “app stop” button as you do with docking computer. Your ship would then do what’s needed to get you there e.g if you were already in SC then it would line your ship up and adjust speed to get you there as if you had throttle at 75%. During this time you could still be succeptable to interdictions which the player would then have to avoid as normal, if interdiction successful then you’d then have to do the first steps to turn autopilot back on again. If not you could do it manually if you wanted.
If you were say currently sat too close to the systems star or planet and you need to head to escape vector, do the destination plotting steps as before but then when you press all stop to activate autopilot you would manually have to head for escape vector but then once in SC auto pilot takes over until you either slow to 30KM/S or interdicted again.
I think this way the player is still at the same risk as any non autopilot user.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Dear FD developers

So far the automatic docking computer saves a lot of effort for me to navigate through stations and I think I couldn't live without it. It's definitely a great module in terms of making commanders' life easier. Since the release of ED, I strongly think that auto-pilot or quick-travel through the galaxy is necessary. I live quite a busy life and I found most of my game experience is just jumping through systems and fuel scooping. This can sometimes be fun, especially during exploration, but most of the time it's time consuming and tedious. This does add up to my time of gameplay but I feel like it is not good for my health and totally unnecessary.

I have several suggestions:

1) the docking computer is so useful, yet so limited by its function. For example, I have to sacrifice a 4 class module slot for it in my Anaconda if I have an exploration setup. Just like the D-scanner, make it an integrated module or Please Make it More Powerful!!! Things like automatic departure from stations, auto-pilot and automatic refueling are all very nice features.

2) Still, auto-pilot can be very helpful. Let's say that I want to travel to a known system and it requires dozens of jumps. It could easily take up to 20min for me to actually travel there. If I can spare 1 hour per day for gaming, I will have to spend most of my time traveling. Wing missions are terrible because I have to make sure that all my friends have at least 2 or 3 hours because we need to spend 1 hour traveling and it is not fun. I believe it is definitely not the best part of this game, and I certainly believe that simple things like auto-navigation in the year 3300 should not be that difficult. Like I said, please make this achievable by advanced computer or by on board crew members. You can certainly make this only available in fully explored systems or visited systems.

3) One problem is that how to deal with piracy and military interruptions in the system. I also understand that some players will probably write scripts to make tons of credits by stacking passenger missions if you are going to work on auto-pilot. So you have to figure a way to balance that as well. But anyways, I strongly suggested this feature.

Sorry but there was once an autopilot mod and frontier gave the person that made it a cease and desist letter.
Fronteir doesnt want autopilot in the game period

 

[Wrecked]

Elite is the unholy embodiment of grind, and travel in this game is just another representation of this.

Here, I'm going to type out traveling from your current location to an engineer 350 light years away.

Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Arrive at destination system. Point your ship to the little yellow circle on your screen. Sit and do nothing until you reach the planet.

I don't know about y'all, but that was really fun.

Elite Dangerous!

 

[Lestat]

Elite is the unholy embodiment of grind, and travel in this game is just another representation of this.

Here, I'm going to type out traveling from your current location to an engineer 350 light years away.

Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump
Arrive at destination system. Point your ship to the little yellow circle on your screen. Sit and do nothing until you reach the planet.

I don't know about y'all, but that was really fun.

Elite Dangerous!

Hum. So your whining about a ship that has 35 Ly jump range Maybe work on an Engineered ship you would only had to jump 5 jumps with 70ly jump range and if you are smart you would scan the systems and earn credits. Oh if you can find a Neutron jump and maybe only had to jump 2 or 3 times.

 

[Wrecked]

Hum. So your whining about a ship that has 35 Ly jump range Maybe work on an Engineered ship you would only had to jump 5 jumps with 70ly jump range and if you are smart you would scan the systems and earn credits. Oh if you can find a Neutron jump and maybe only had to jump 2 or 3 times.

First of all, not everyone has, nor wants to have, a 70ly exploraconda and I'm going to say there are no neutron stars in my path. Now what?

Secondly, I never mentioned I was after credits. In my example, I couldn't care less about making credits. I, along with many others in this game, am a billionaire. I'm simply trying to get somewhere to accomplish the primary goal of engineering my brand new ship that isn't an Anaconda, ASPX, or Phantom. I want to do this in the most efficient manner so that I can get back to PLAYING the game.

I'll even give another example that might help illustrate my point.

What if I need to go... oh... let's say... 5000ly to do something silly like.. uh... um... i don't know... UNLOCK AN ENGINEER!?!?!?!? Can you do that in 2 or 3 jumps? How about 30 or 40 jumps? Huh? Can you? No, you can't.

So where does this leave us... back where I originally started. Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump... over and over and over and over...

This isn't game play. It's just another grind wall meant to drag out game time because at the end of the day, FDev realized early on in the development of the game that the game play loops are incredibly shallow.

But, what they don't appear to realize is that most of the player base is fine with the actual premise of the game. Choose your own adventure. Set out and make something of yourself and, by the way, there's no direct path, there's no one telling you what to do or how to do it. You get to do it your way. Incredible!

FDev needs to remove the grind in this game and let their player base have these adventures that are memorable because of what they allowed you to do, not because of what they forced you to do.

I'm not saying add an "I win" button or take any of the actual challenges out of the game, but finding the mechanics that objectively add nothing meaningful to the game should be eliminated for the health of the game and the community.


It's your prerogative if you want to defend bad design, but you're still wrong.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

First of all, not everyone has, nor wants to have, a 70ly exploraconda and I'm going to say there are no neutron stars in my path. Now what?

Secondly, I never mentioned I was after credits. In my example, I couldn't care less about making credits. I, along with many others in this game, am a billionaire. I'm simply trying to get somewhere to accomplish the primary goal of engineering my brand new ship that isn't an Anaconda, ASPX, or Phantom. I want to do this in the most efficient manner so that I can get back to PLAYING the game.

I'll even give another example that might help illustrate my point.

What if I need to go... oh... let's say... 5000ly to do something silly like.. uh... um... i don't know... UNLOCK AN ENGINEER!?!?!?!? Can you do that in 2 or 3 jumps? How about 30 or 40 jumps? Huh? Can you? No, you can't.

So where does this leave us... back where I originally started. Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump... over and over and over and over...

This isn't game play. It's just another grind wall meant to drag out game time because at the end of the day, FDev realized early on in the development of the game that the game play loops are incredibly shallow.

But, what they don't appear to realize is that most of the player base is fine with the actual premise of the game. Choose your own adventure. Set out and make something of yourself and, by the way, there's no direct path, there's no one telling you what to do or how to do it. You get to do it your way. Incredible!

FDev needs to remove the grind in this game and let their player base have these adventures that are memorable because of what they allowed you to do, not because of what they forced you to do.

I'm not saying add an "I win" button or take any of the actual challenges out of the game, but finding the mechanics that objectively add nothing meaningful to the game should be eliminated for the health of the game and the community.


It's your prerogative if you want to defend bad design, but you're still wrong.

How about you dont defend players being lazy or a mechanic that will allow botting.

 

[Misty_Dark]

First of all, not everyone has, nor wants to have, a 70ly exploraconda and I'm going to say there are no neutron stars in my path. Now what?

Secondly, I never mentioned I was after credits. In my example, I couldn't care less about making credits. I, along with many others in this game, am a billionaire. I'm simply trying to get somewhere to accomplish the primary goal of engineering my brand new ship that isn't an Anaconda, ASPX, or Phantom. I want to do this in the most efficient manner so that I can get back to PLAYING the game.

I'll even give another example that might help illustrate my point.

What if I need to go... oh... let's say... 5000ly to do something silly like.. uh... um... i don't know... UNLOCK AN ENGINEER!?!?!?!? Can you do that in 2 or 3 jumps? How about 30 or 40 jumps? Huh? Can you? No, you can't.

So where does this leave us... back where I originally started. Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump... over and over and over and over...

This isn't game play. It's just another grind wall meant to drag out game time because at the end of the day, FDev realized early on in the development of the game that the game play loops are incredibly shallow.

But, what they don't appear to realize is that most of the player base is fine with the actual premise of the game. Choose your own adventure. Set out and make something of yourself and, by the way, there's no direct path, there's no one telling you what to do or how to do it. You get to do it your way. Incredible!

FDev needs to remove the grind in this game and let their player base have these adventures that are memorable because of what they allowed you to do, not because of what they forced you to do.

I'm not saying add an "I win" button or take any of the actual challenges out of the game, but finding the mechanics that objectively add nothing meaningful to the game should be eliminated for the health of the game and the community.


It's your prerogative if you want to defend bad design, but you're still wrong.

Now the unlocking of engineers, I do get what FDev wanted to accomplish. To get players to atleast spend some time doing some things they might normally do.
The unlock for 5000 LY distance requirements get you to figure out how to do that. You coudl take your "combat" ship with 15 or LY, mount a fuel scoop after your second try, since you ran out of fuel or something. and then do the math 5000/15 = many, many jumps, and by just considering another ship build, perhaps a modes 45 LY jump, you have already cut down the number of jumps you need by 3. Even if you have NO interrest in exploration, you get introduced to it. as you have two options...
1 .go the required distance, self destruct and be back home. No credits to cash for your trip.
2. actually go out, do some easy exploration on your way, and the turn back when you have reached the 5000 LY distance, and go back, and handing some exploration for some earning for your time spent.


So lets see how this would be with the suggestion of an auto pilot.
First, we can totally skip option 2, you are not going to be scanning anything with the auto pilot. So now we are down to option 1. So you set the auto pilot to jump somewhere, and then some ~120 jump later (assuming a modest 45LY jumprange), you ship arrives and you self destruct because what is the point of flying back?

What kind of gameplay would this be? You talk about jump-scoop, jump-scoop, not being any game play, but what is set autopilot, leave computer, come back X time later?



You also seems to ignore that unlocking engineers is a PLAYER CHOICE, there is in MOST case, no need to unlock all engineers, and unlocking engineers is for MOST players a ONE TIME THING.



If you have set yourself some goal for what you want to accomplish, there are going to be a set of activities needed to be completed. Some you will probably like, and some not so much. It is still your choice, do you want to reach your own set goal or do you want to re-evaluate this? Remember, we are now talking of things that are something that you only needing to do ONE TIME, and once that is accomplished, you do not need to do it again, this is NOT a grind.





Just because you do not like something, does not make that into a grind.

 

[Lestat]

First of all, not everyone has, nor wants to have, a 70ly exploraconda and I'm going to say there are no neutron stars in my path. Now what?

Secondly, I never mentioned I was after credits. In my example, I couldn't care less about making credits. I, along with many others in this game, am a billionaire. I'm simply trying to get somewhere to accomplish the primary goal of engineering my brand new ship that isn't an Anaconda, ASPX, or Phantom. I want to do this in the most efficient manner so that I can get back to PLAYING the game.

I'll even give another example that might help illustrate my point.

Let see what it illustrate. You want a game to play itself. While you do other things like. 1 watching tv. 2 Going to the store, 3 Playing other games. BASICALLY NOT PLAYING THE GAME. Yes, that illustrates a lot does it not.

What if I need to go... oh... let's say... 5000ly to do something silly like.. uh... um... i don't know... UNLOCK AN ENGINEER!?!?!?!? Can you do that in 2 or 3 jumps? How about 30 or 40 jumps? Huh? Can you? No, you can't.

So where does this leave us... back where I originally started. Jump, scoop, point, initiate jump... over and over and over and over...

This isn't game play. It's just another grind wall meant to drag out game time because at the end of the day, FDev realized early on in the development of the game that the game play loops are incredibly shallow.

But, what they don't appear to realize is that most of the player base is fine with the actual premise of the game. Choose your own adventure. Set out and make something of yourself and, by the way, there's no direct path, there's no one telling you what to do or how to do it. You get to do it your way. Incredible!

FDev needs to remove the grind in this game and let their player base have these adventures that are memorable because of what they allowed you to do, not because of what they forced you to do.

So your telling us you really don't want to play any game and you hate grind and you are complaining about it. Ya we get it. So your not going to be playing 99% of the games being sold right now. Because they have a grind.

I'm not saying add an "I win" button or take any of the actual challenges out of the game, but finding the mechanics that objectively add nothing meaningful to the game should be eliminated for the health of the game and the community.


It's your prerogative if you want to defend bad design, but you're still wrong.

Well there a few board games that can cater to your needs. Chest or checkers. No grind.

 

[GJ51]

All I can say is that the server BGS update today borked my Voice Attack and I had to fly without it until I read that it was the Galnet reader in EDDI that was causing VA to crash.

It was then that I realized that if I didn't have VA/EDDI/HCS voicepaks automation and integration, I'd more than likely not be playing ED anymore.

 

[Lestat]

All I can say is that the server BGS update today borked my Voice Attack and I had to fly without it until I read that it was the Galnet reader in EDDI that was causing VA to crash.

It was then that I realized that if I didn't have VA/EDDI/HCS voicepaks automation and integration, I'd more than likely not be playing ED anymore.

So your quitting because your Macros are having an issue. Your third party software not working.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

All I can say is that the server BGS update today borked my Voice Attack and I had to fly without it until I read that it was the Galnet reader in EDDI that was causing VA to crash.

It was then that I realized that if I didn't have VA/EDDI/HCS voicepaks automation and integration, I'd more than likely not be playing ED anymore.

That sounds like a personal problem.
The game is perfectly playable without macros.