After looking at the new beta, I have a few comments. It is time for serious discussion AND the DEVS to listen to us.

[Malakie]

After looking at the new beta, I have a few comments. It is time for serious discussion AND the DEVS to listen to us.

I have been part of a number of discussions lately, many outside these official forums. And I have found those discussions are all regarding one thing.. Elite and how many players have either given up and no longer play or those rarely doing so and thinking about it.

One of the problems I want to touch on before saying my piece though, is I do NOT want to be inundated with a bunch of over the top fanboy replies. If you cannot join this discussion as an adult, if you feel you have to berate someone with a different opinion than your own, DON'T POST.

This is a discussion. I also want to make one thing clear: I WANT the game to grow and succeed. This is not about putting down or knocking down the game. It is about trying to SAVE IT because there are THOUSANDS of players who have stopped playing or are near that point. Obviously me writing this should tell you that I too am frustrated enough to do this. All I personally see is a lot more 'pretty' ooh and ahh features that actually add no real substance, no real content for players to actually do to the game. It is time that the DEVS of Elite start listening to we players. Yes, we see your vision and where you want to go. But in your quest, you are forgetting we the player and the fact we need to be engaged, we need to be entertained, we need to find ourselves having FUN in the game.

I joined Elite Dangerous back from day one. I am one of those original Founders. I have patiently sat here, watched and waited as improvements were made, bugs were fixed and time moved on. I have had complaints about things just like everyone else has. But I have stuck it out and kept the faith that eventually we would get to something I could consider 'fun' and immersive. Well, after the last few days of round and round in some other discussions with over the top fanboy types, I decided it was time to make my opinion official here in the official forums... in HOPE that Elite DEVS might just read this and understand what it happening out here to even their most long term supporters.

To put it bluntly.... The game is BORING. There is no immersion. There is no impulse to want to stay in the universe and game. And I realized that this may not change for a long time to come based on the new beta patch and the content being added.

The new patch adds a number of 'nice' features like holo avatars, some more decal markings for your ships and a few other things. But it does NOTHING to address the much more important and serious issue of game play itself. Just like the Horizons and Passengers and Engineers updates, this one too adds some nice pretty things to the game but it does not change anything in the underlying engine or universe in terms of fun or immersive experience.

There is no 'drive' to want to do anything. There is no draw that sucks you in and keeps you there. No story that engages your mind.

Now some might try to point to the new 'Thargoid' threat. ok.. ask yourself.. how many months ago was that and how many of you reading this have experienced some immersive game play and excitement since then? I haven't. Even so, that is actually not what I am talking about overall. If things continue, a FEW players will get the honor of spending hours upon hours of finding some isolated place with a clue or perhaps having a 2 minute encounter with an alien Thargoid. And while that might be enough for that one person for that one time, what about the other 364 days of the year and the thousands of other players who don't?

Elite needs MORE than that.. MUCH more. What I am talking about are things like an actual real functional economy driven universe. One that can and does generate DYNAMIC procedural based missions. There are no BIOMES. None. All planets are basically the same rock. And yes, I know, some of that is because the DEVS want to try and keep as close to mathematical reality as the real universe.. One problem.. IT IS BORING. Not to mention, we humans actually HAVE NO IDEA what planets look like or are made of. Math does not answer all especially since mankind is truly an infant when it comes to full on math and the cosmos. Regardless, sometimes you have to fudge things just a bit to make things FUN. It is a GAME after all.

You can go to any planet and land and find... the same thing. Nothing. A few poi's that might have some minerals and drones that attack. You can drive and drive and drive you buggy in circles for hours... and nothing happens. There is nothing to see or find being generated. Why have true to life dull planets because you want 'real life' immersion.. yet turn around in the next sentence and talk about an alien race called the 'Thargoids'.. something we know is not real? That is an oxymoron in itself. Games need to be FUN as well as close to realistic and immersive as possible. Elite, right now, is not. The ability for users to find, mine and use materials to craft things, build things, find true POI's that are dynamic and lead into short story lines etc. Those are the kinds of things this game needs.

We have NONE of that. Right now Elite is made of a lot of pretty graphics, basic flight mechanics and a whole buttload of canned scripted missions, the only difference between them being how they are worded. Take this, go there, drop it off. Load these people, fly them there (maybe with a fight on the way) and drop them off. Mine this, bring it back. Shoot some drones, win the mission. When all done, rinse and repeat it all over again for a few more credits.. MOST of which you will now spend on repairing all the damage to your ship you took.

I know some of you reading are going to get all bent out of shape. You need to sit back, shut up and truly THINK about what I just wrote.

This is NOT about dissing the game or DEVS. This is about what MOST OF US feel about Elite at this point in time. It is about all those who have given up and all those about to give up. This is about SAVING THE GAME WE ALL WANT TO PLAY AND LOVE.

IF we did not care, if we were here to cut it down, I would not be writing this. It is time for the DEVS of Elite to pay attention to the players and backers of the game. It is time to acknowledge that our voices have been heard and they understand what we are saying.

And if they can't.. or won't.. Well, I am afraid the future does not look bright for Elite.

I want to enjoy myself, see new things, expand my horizons.. I want to be engrossed and immersed so that I am driven to load the game every day, looking forward to something new or exciting. Right now, I load the game.. and I just realized this as I wrote it... I load the game and almost feel a sense of dread because I know I am headed into the same thing... grinding rinse and repeat the same missions over and over with a few battles interspersed here and there.

Even I know that when that is how one feels when they go to do something, it is time for either those working on the thing you want to do either listen and make changes, or it is time for me to move on and leave it all behind for good.

Now the question is.. What will the Elite Devs say or do from this point? I guess I will find out one way or the other in the next few coming months. Either they will listen and pay attention, consider what some of us are saying.. or they won't.

I am curious to hear other thoughts regarding my post.

 

[Lawlazyboy]

/me gets a box of pop corn and waits :x

 

[Malakie]

/me gets a box of pop corn and waits :x

LOL you might need an entire box with a couple dozen bags.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

I'm not even clear what you're asking for[noob]; will check back later see if someone else decodes it for us simpletons...

 

[c00ky1970]

Very impassioned, but apart from a few words about engrossed and immersed you dont identify what it is you want.

Do you want a better crafting system?

Do you want more scientific data collection options for stars and planets?

Do you want alternate graphics for sources of materials?

Do you want variance in black hole representation?

Do you want Black holes to be deadly zones of ship destroying gravity?

Do you want Neutron Stars to damage your ships electronics whilst you try and overcharge your drive?

Do you want varying options for SRVs, maybe loadout and outfitting options on a par of ships?

Do you want engineers to become less random and more deterministic?

Do you want the risk and reward for smuggling to be greater?

Do you want alternate options for nefarious activities (theft rather than just piracy, subterfuge rather than just base attacks)

Do you want a consequential crime and punishment system?

Do you want more relevant and game affecting powerplay?

Do you want choices made by the player give both benefits and drawbacks?

Do you want mini wing based CG's to be implemented?

Do you want in game racing tracks to be defined?

Do you want NPC's to become persistant in their damage and have Nemesis organisations that you can really annoy, or really help?

Do you want more ships?

Do you want more places you can land and trade at?

Do you want fuel scoping to have a greater risk depending on star type?

Do you want other careers other than Combat, Trading and Exploration?

Currently I have no idea what you want, apart from the fact that Elite doesn't float your boat.

 

[Madrax573]

So what you are saying is that you are burnt out, have done pretty much everything in game and you want more stuff to do?

Sounds like you need a break until development catches up to your desires.

All these threads happened with EVE at about the 3 year mark as well and are normal. People like yourself think that development happens a lot quicker than it does in reality.

It's simply really, it's taken you these past couple of years to do the original content plus a few tweaks. If it's not fun any more give it a break until the development injects more 'content' that will interest you.

 

[Malakie]

Very impassioned, but apart from a few words about engrossed and immersed you dont identify what it is you want.

Do you want a better crafting system?

Do you want more scientific data collection options for stars and planets?

Do you want alternate graphics for sources of materials?

Do you want variance in black hole representation?

Do you want Black holes to be deadly zones of ship destroying gravity?

Do you want Neutron Stars to damage your ships electronics whilst you try and overcharge your drive?

Do you want varying options for SRVs, maybe loadout and outfitting options on a par of ships?

Do you want engineers to become less random and more deterministic?

Do you want the risk and reward for smuggling to be greater?

Do you want alternate options for nefarious activities (theft rather than just piracy, subterfuge rather than just base attacks)

Do you want a consequential crime and punishment system?

Do you want more relevant and game affecting powerplay?

Do you want choices made by the player give both benefits and drawbacks?

Do you want mini wing based CG's to be implemented?

Do you want in game racing tracks to be defined?

Do you want NPC's to become persistant in their damage and have Nemesis organisations that you can really annoy, or really help?

Do you want more ships?

Do you want more places you can land and trade at?

Do you want fuel scoping to have a greater risk depending on star type?

Do you want other careers other than Combat, Trading and Exploration?

Currently I have no idea what you want, apart from the fact that Elite doesn't float your boat.

Two points: First, I think you did that just fine... and second, actually did say what I want a few times :

"Elite needs MORE than that.. MUCH more. What I am talking about are things like an actual real functional economy driven universe. One that can and does generate DYNAMIC procedural based missions. There are no BIOMES. None. All planets are basically the same rock. And yes, I know, some of that is because the DEVS want to try and keep as close to mathematical reality as the real universe.. One problem.. IT IS BORING. Not to mention, we humans actually HAVE NO IDEA what planets look like or are made of. Math does not answer all especially since mankind is truly an infant when it comes to full on math and the cosmos. Regardless, sometimes you have to fudge things just a bit to make things FUN. It is a GAME after all. "

and another, "You can go to any planet and land and find... the same thing. Nothing. A few poi's that might have some minerals and drones that attack. You can drive and drive and drive you buggy in circles for hours... and nothing happens. There is nothing to see or find being generated."

I didn't go point for point as you did because my post was already long enough.

 

[z993126]

Elite: Dangerous is incapable of being what you want it to be.

You, as an individual, will never not be bored by it, no matter what the developers do. Your need for daily excitement, for perpetual novelty, will never be satisfied by what can actually be delivered.

You do not speak for 'most of us', and admit that when you say that they will consider what 'some of us are saying'. The developers do take the needs and desires of the players in consideration, but that consideration does not mean they are absolutely beholden to the conflicting whims of subsets of the entire player base. They can--and must--make decisions between what they have the resources (time, skill, and technical considerations) to implement, and in what order.

Lastly, and most importantly, the developers' primary function is to develop the game, not engage with the forum to placate the dissatisfied. If you want the developers to directly communicate, that impacts their ability to work on any features. They can't do both.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Very impassioned, but apart from a few words about engrossed and immersed you dont identify what it is you want.

Do you want a better crafting system?

Do you want more scientific data collection options for stars and planets?

Do you want alternate graphics for sources of materials?

Do you want variance in black hole representation?

Do you want Black holes to be deadly zones of ship destroying gravity?

Do you want Neutron Stars to damage your ships electronics whilst you try and overcharge your drive?

Do you want varying options for SRVs, maybe loadout and outfitting options on a par of ships?

Do you want engineers to become less random and more deterministic?

Do you want the risk and reward for smuggling to be greater?

Do you want alternate options for nefarious activities (theft rather than just piracy, subterfuge rather than just base attacks)

Do you want a consequential crime and punishment system?

Do you want more relevant and game affecting powerplay?

Do you want choices made by the player give both benefits and drawbacks?

Do you want mini wing based CG's to be implemented?

Do you want in game racing tracks to be defined?

Do you want NPC's to become persistant in their damage and have Nemesis organisations that you can really annoy, or really help?

Do you want more ships?

Do you want more places you can land and trade at?

Do you want fuel scoping to have a greater risk depending on star type?

Do you want other careers other than Combat, Trading and Exploration?

Currently I have no idea what you want, apart from the fact that Elite doesn't float your boat.

I thought it was pretty obvious myself. Gameplay, because at the moment, the actual gameplay is very basic at the moment. Right now I am beginning to feel the same. Exploring is so bland, not because of the beige planets, but because of the virtually non existant scanning mechanics, that give me zero reason to go and land on said planet.

Res site that are there for bounty farming. It's farming because there are not gameplay mechanics. There is nothing there.

Combat zones are the same. There is no real game play except for the exact same gameplay the is at a res site. Basically shooting ships in a pointless area. There is basically nothing there to make things fun.

 

[tafkabb]

You don't get to choose the replies. Elite isn't boring.

 

[Malakie]

So what you are saying is that you are burnt out, have done pretty much everything in game and you want more stuff to do?

Sounds like you need a break until development catches up to your desires.

All these threads happened with EVE at about the 3 year mark as well and are normal. People like yourself think that development happens a lot quicker than it does in reality.

It's simply really, it's taken you these past couple of years to do the original content plus a few tweaks. If it's not fun any more give it a break until the development injects more 'content' that will interest you.

Nope that is NOT what I said at all.. Go back and read it again. I also stated at the beginning of my post, that if you were just going to over the top fanboy post, don't bother. Your comment makes it clear you neither READ what I said nor have any intention of discussion about the game itself.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't get to choose the replies. Elite isn't boring.

Explain? Because many of us are obviously saying it is. Your one line comment does not change that.

 

[WindWpn]

I am with you to an extent.... though what is the draw then? In this "nothing" of Elite, there actually is something. I do not know what it is, but perhaps since there is nothing, the mind thinks there will be something?!

Perfect example, driving around on a planet way out in the middle of nowhere. For some reason, there is an appeal. A feeling that perhaps there will be something over that next rise.

I would not term ED as boring, but rather "curiously shallow." There is a draw obviously, even the OP has it otherwise you would be off playing NMS or some other game and not visiting the ED forums, making long posts.... and neither would I.

All in all, there is some enigmatic draw to ED which we all have, and "boring" is not the accurate term.

My hope is that we see more depth evolve in the game, and enhanced experience from chair, but indeed, many of the most recent new offerings seem more like marketing ploys for community video/photo content creators as compared to usable game play. Ironically, we saw this also recently with latest NMS release, and look how that is now a newly loved/adored game. ?Similarly from a business perspective, holoMe and the new camera controls are good moves on FD's part from purely marketing perspective. In a way that is ok, as it garners interest and keeps the devs paid and the offices powered.

 

[Malakie]

Elite: Dangerous is incapable of being what you want it to be.

You, as an individual, will never not be bored by it, no matter what the developers do. Your need for daily excitement, for perpetual novelty, will never be satisfied by what can actually be delivered.

You do not speak for 'most of us', and admit that when you say that they will consider what 'some of us are saying'. The developers do take the needs and desires of the players in consideration, but that consideration does not mean they are absolutely beholden to the conflicting whims of subsets of the entire player base. They can--and must--make decisions between what they have the resources (time, skill, and technical considerations) to implement, and in what order.

Lastly, and most importantly, the developers' primary function is to develop the game, not engage with the forum to placate the dissatisfied. If you want the developers to directly communicate, that impacts their ability to work on any features. They can't do both.

BULL. It is capable of being that and much much more. Star Citizen is proof of that. Even though it is in basic Alpha, it is much more engaging and immersive by far. While it too has a long way to go before it can be called fun or immersive, the point is they are actually taking steps to try and NOT make it so. The next 3.0 release, in fact, has the new dynamic procedural missions generation engine and dynamic economic engine with careers in it.. and it will STILL be alpha.

There is NO REASON WHAT SO EVER, that Elite Devs cannot start working to add CONTENT for players. Something to do. Something that keeps you interested and engaged.

And as for the developers function.. If you were talking about a business application, you would be right. In this regard, you are wrong. It IS those creating Elite job to CREATE and build an immersive GAME. What is the point of a game if it is not immersive and fun?

 

[Bit.Slade]

You don't get to choose the replies. Elite isn't boring.

That goes both ways, bud, which means that you don't get to state what Elite is or isn't for anyone but yourself.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I'm so in pain writing this. I really really really want to write a sarcastic response purely because you used "us" in the title when what you meant was "me" and you mentioned about the whole fanboy and that your trying to save the game and you can practically hear the fake oscar speech voice....

But

I agree. Gameplay mechanics need to start hitting the road. I wouldn't say boring as I still put tons of hours in after already 2300 odd but I'd say it needs to start moving. New ways of mining, new ways of doing combat, new ways of exploring. Arguably multicrew gunner is a new mechanic but it's not really new new. The crux of combat/trading/exploration/mining/piracy haven't been altered in a massively significant way. Sure there's changes but they arn't as groundbreaking as some want them to be. Exploring planets is nowhere close to actually flying around and doing exploring, if it was remotely as interesting and profitable that may have been a new stream but at current it isn't.

Lets look back, only the major bits will be taken as "new mechanics" so stuff like neutron stars which are a minor thing yet still a new mechanic don't feature (sadly).
1.0 Base game
1.1 Wings <- new mechanics
1.2 Community goals <- Same mechanics, new way to use them
1.3 Powerplay <- Same mechanics, new way to use them
1.4 CQC <- New game mode
2.0/1.6 Horizons <- New mechanics
2.1 Engineers <- Same mechanics, new way to use them.
2.2 Guardians <- New(ish) mechanics for passengers, sadly feels too close to trading to be really termed as new
2.3 Multicrew <- Same mechanics, new way to use them. Arguably gunner is new but not radically changing for everyone

In short in 2 years trading is exactly as it was, combat is almost identical, exploration is almost identical. There's landing on planets, a few tweaks here and there but there's nothing that comes in and says boom, revolutionised that.

Edit: Missions have changed substantially and kudos to them, chained missions are a step in the right direction towards branching complex missions.

For example, if planets with life became a thing and cataloguing them gave tons of credits and exploration rank so exploring 1 thing really extensively was the optimal method then suddenly the face of it would change.
If Thargoids became a thing and it was now swarm warfare and whole new things like that then yeah quite the difference.
Trading, don't really know what to do with that but I'm sure someone has bright ideas.
Mining arguably has changed the most with collector limpets and prospectors.

Edit Edit: I see lots of potential for combat zone changes, faction rep and ranking changes and exploration changes and sincerely hope these are already in the works.

But that having been said you really ticked most of my sarcastic response boxes there OP. So torn and annoyed...

 

[Malakie]

I am with you to an extent.... though what is the draw then? In this "nothing" of Elite, there actually is something. I do not know what it is, but perhaps since there is nothing, the mind thinks there will be something?!

Perfect example, driving around on a planet way out in the middle of nowhere. For some reason, there is an appeal. A feeling that perhaps there will be something over that next rise.

I would not term ED as boring, but rather "curiously shallow." There is a draw obviously, even the OP has it otherwise you would be off playing NMS or some other game and not visiting the ED forums, making long posts.... and neither would I.

All in all, there is some enigmatic draw to ED which we all have, and "boring" is not the accurate term.

My hope is that we see more depth evolve in the game, and enhanced experience from chair, but indeed, many of the most recent new offerings seem more like marketing ploys for community video/photo content creators as compared to usable game play. Ironically, we saw this also recently with latest NMS release, and look how that is now a newly loved/adored game. From a business perspective it was a good move on FD's part from purely marketing perspective. In a way that is ok, as it garners interest and keeps the devs paid and the offices powered.

Well said..

Yes it has a 'draw' to it.. still. The problem is the 'draw' is getting old and boring much faster than before.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm so in pain writing this. I really really really want to write a sarcastic response purely because you used "us" in the title when what you meant was "me" and you mentioned about the whole fanboy and that your trying to save the game and you can practically hear the fake oscar speech voice....

But

I agree. Gameplay mechanics need to start hitting the road. Surface mining, new exploration stuff. Arguably multicrew gunner is a new mechanic but it's not really new new. The crux of combat/trading/exploration/mining/piracy haven't been altered in a massively significant way. Sure there's changes but they arn't as groundbreaking as some want them to be.

Lets look back, only the major bits will be taken as "new mechanics" so stuff like neutron stars which are a minor thing yet still a new mechanic don't feature (sadly).
1.0 Base game
1.1 Wings <- new mechanics
1.2 Community goals <- Same mechanics, new way to use them
1.3 Powerplay <- Same mechanics, new way to use them
1.4 CQC <- New game mode
2.0/1.6 Horizons <- New mechanics
2.1 Engineers <- Same mechanics, new way to use them.
2.2 Guardians <- New(ish) mechanics for passengers, sadly feels too close to trading to be really termed as new
2.3 Multicrew <- Same mechanics, new way to use them. Arguably gunner is new but not radically changing for everyone

In short in 2 years trading is exactly as it was, combat is almost identical, exploration is almost identical. There's landing on planets, a few tweaks here and there but there's nothing that comes in and says boom, revolutionised that.

For example, if planets with life became a thing and cataloguing them gave tons of credits and exploration rank so exploring 1 thing really extensively was the optimal method then suddenly the face of it would change.
If Thargoids became a thing and it was now swarm warfare and whole new things like that then yeah quite the difference.
Trading, don't really know what to do with that but I'm sure someone has bright ideas.
Mining arguably has changed the most with collector limpets and prospectors.

But that having been said you really ticked most of my sarcastic response boxes there OP. So torn and annoyed...

LOL but perhaps... what you did not realize is that I worded things that way on purpose.. to GET people engaged and voice opinions for this discussion... Sometimes things are not quite as clear cut as they seem... not everyone is a child or young adult here.

BTW, good post of your own. I agree.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I want to enjoy myself, see new things, expand my horizons.. I want to be engrossed and immersed so that I am driven to load the game every day, looking forward to something new or exciting. Right now, I load the game.. and I just realized this as I wrote it... I load the game and almost feel a sense of dread because I know I am headed into the same thing... grinding rinse and repeat the same missions over and over with a few battles interspersed here and there.

Time to take a break, OP? Seriously. Turn it off, go make yourself some beans, jog around the block, wash your laundry, clip your toenails, throw fetch with the dog, binge-watch murder shows, go pick up on chicks, fish, get some sun.

While you're at it, delete your facebook and twitter accounts, and cancel your cable TV subscription.

Six months. Just drop it all and live some real, tangible life.

When you come back, you should be having fun again.

 

[Hooplah]

This isn't the game you were looking for...Move along...Move along...

Elite Dangerous is what it is and just because it does not fit one's perception of what a game should be doesn't mean that everyone else agrees. Sure those other discussions outside the forum were negative because you looked for negative to solidify your own perceptions. Elite Dangerous follows in the original concept of the first ever version and has greatly expanded it to an amazing degree. What you call boring others take delight in playing. It is simply not your type of game and no amount of demanding that the Devs change it all will ever be accomplished.

 

[Malakie]

This isn't the game you were looking for...Move along...Move along...

Elite Dangerous is what it is and just because it does not fit one's perception of what a game should be doesn't mean that everyone else agrees. Sure those other discussion outside the forum were negative because you looked for negative to solidify your own perceptions. Elite Dangerous follows in the original concept of the first ever version and has greatly expanded it to an amazing degree. What you call boring others take delight in playing. It is simply not your type of game and no amount of demanding that the Devs change it all will ever be accomplished.

So explain it.. I asked for discussion NOT OVER THE TOP FANBOY remarks, CLEARLY stated at the beginning of my post.

Explain it.. Explain what 'we' are missing that is fun and engaging, explain what you find so immersive in the game...

 

[c00ky1970]

I didn't go point for point as you did because my post was already long enough.

My points were me remembering posts stating that these things are missing or need improvement -

Your point was that you want to be more entertained, but again its lost in the sea of text about being bored or awaiting flame death fanbots saying Elite is perfect. You could have used more of your post to actually state what you wanted, or if it is a small list kept your post brief, as it looked like the typical "Waah elite is not the game I want it to be! Fix it Fdev".

The more useful threads are those where the OP actually states a position and what they consider would be an improvement, just saying airless moons are boring is a so what statement - they are boring. What would make them less boring? Other types of geology? Hidden bases, pirate or military? Roving land based NPCs? Downed ships needing rescuing or data collecting from them? Escape pods that give you a destination and bounty for return to a specific port?

Unless you talk about what excites you anybody will read your post and go "classic burn out nothing to see here", you appear to want the game to improve and yet cannot articulate things that would make the game exciting for you beyond pointing out what in the game bores you.

Go and look at the other threads that are from impassioned and infuriated players that want better exploratioon, better missions, better crime and punishment, they all state what they would like to see, giving FDev an idea of what is important to them, plus an easier brief to try and work towards.