After looking at the new beta, I have a few comments. It is time for serious discussion AND the DEVS to listen to us.

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Context. GTA gives you reasons to care about what you're doing and why you're doing it. My constant mission running and bounty hunting has probably had significant impact on the BGS over time as I tend to stick to one system until I find a reason to move. Do I know I've affected the BGS? No. Does the game give me any indication that I've affected the BGS beyond my rep and mission rewards increasing? No. As a consequence I couldn't give a monkeys about the BGS and therefore what I'm doing and why I'm doing it beyond the fact that I do what's most profitable and I do it to buy mods/ships. That's an incredibly shallow reward loop.

With regards to the BGS, a single player can make a big difference over one tick just by running missions for a faction. The secret is to know which states are valid and which are not and it comes down to common sense. FD released info regarding this a good while ago as well.
I have a lot of hours in this game and a lot of them are dedicated to working the BGS in favour of the faction I'm associated with.
It's not something you can farm like credits but is a rewarding exercise if you take the time to learn how it works as it helps you understand how the game works. Then you can manipulate it to suit your own agenda.

The biggest problem this game has is that it's too easy to shortcut it so people do the most effective credit grind and don't know what to do with their nice, new, shiny ship.
Then they get bored because they don't understand the game.
No one wants to understand how the game works unless it's posted on a YT vid...then everyone thinks they'e great until nerf until the next thing comes around...and repeat.

There is a lot of value in this game if you avoid the shortcuts and play it as a means to understand it but if you don't have the patience for that then your experience will not be good.

 

[SkipRat]

With regards to the BGS, a single player can make a big difference over one tick just by running missions for a faction. The secret is to know which states are valid and which are not and it comes down to common sense. FD released info regarding this a good while ago as well.
I have a lot of hours in this game and a lot of them are dedicated to working the BGS in favour of the faction I'm associated with.
It's not something you can farm like credits but is a rewarding exercise if you take the time to learn how it works as it helps you understand how the game works. Then you can manipulate it to suit your own agenda.

The biggest problem this game has is that it's too easy to shortcut it so people do the most effective credit grind and don't know what to do with their nice, new, shiny ship.
Then they get bored because they don't understand the game.
No one wants to understand how the game works unless it's posted on a YT vid...then everyone thinks they'e great until nerf until the next thing comes around...and repeat.

There is a lot of value in this game if you avoid the shortcuts and play it as a means to understand it but if you don't have the patience for that then your experience will not be good.

I got bored, because there simply is almost zero depth to the game at the moment. Oh and I didn't take any short cuts, when I first played the game, way back in the pill. The joy I had when I upgraded to a hauler from my sidewinder was immense... Then when I started the game next (I quit the game after buying), I re-spawned in the super structure of the station and promptly exploded.

I am so tired of people belittling other peoples concerns regarding the game, because they assume they don't how to play the game properly, took short cuts blah blah blah. Most of the people I know who left the game, left because of the problem, they did know how to play the game and how shallow it really was.

 

[Enderby]

Clearly some do not find it boring.

But a lot of people do. That's not good.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

I got bored, because there simply is almost zero depth to the game at the moment. Oh and I didn't take any short cuts, when I first played the game, way back in the pill. The joy I had when I upgraded to a hauler from my sidewinder was immense... Then when I started the game next (I quit the game after buying), I re-spawned in the super structure of the station and promptly exploded.

I am so tired of people belittling other peoples concerns regarding the game, because they assume they don't how to play the game properly, took short cuts blah blah blah. Most of the people I know who left the game, left because of the problem, they did know how to play the game and how shallow it really was.

I'm not belittling anyone but it has been proven many times on this forum that players who fast-track ships don't even know the basic fundamentals.
All about the credit grind and expecting things to be presented to them.
But riddle me this squire:
If how the BGS worked was openly available to all and didn't take any effort to learn...would that not end up in a never ending stalemate?
I'm not even sure you even got that far because of a bug, to be fair.

I'll reiterate, it's a game that takes time to learn and doesn't give you a lot of directions if you play it for yourself.
If you use any shortcuts, 3rd party tools or anything like that, your experience will be reduced.
The problem is people do not want to engage in the more complex or time consuming things this game offers and just expect things to be presented to them. This game is designed for people to explore and check things out but sadly, most just want to farm stuff and progress the quickest way possible without learning anything about the game. Then demand the game be changed to suit them.

 

[Tel Prydain]

Unless you want a better ship there's no reason to do anything in ED. Might as well just stay in the first station with your 3k credits.

Unless you want to support a faction, become Elite in a trade, play the BGS, join powerplay, tag new planets with your name, explore alien ruins or, you know, fly your ship.

It's funny because prior to passenger missions being added, many of us asked suspected they'd be nothing more than trumped up delivery missions and even said that they're no big deal. In FE2, they were no big deal - they were the same as any other mission.

They're now my favorite thing to do in Elite, so I'd depute that they're just Cargo missions.

just like they shouldn't be for passengers missions which must have taken a week to code in. Wowee, now we get to fly to other systems for a slightly different reason. Passengers should never have been an update, it should have just been added in as part of the ongoing development, not heralded as a feature. So basically FD coded in something easy and quick and pushed it out as if it was some huge achievement.

Oh, sorry - I didn't know you were a dev with a knowledge of coding yourself. Please, tell us all how you'd have done it. Feel free to use your own past accomplishments as examples.

(Note: This is not the typical, "well, go make your own game" response. Just pointing out the silliness of minimizing the work that went into making new mission/target/module types and integrating them into the game... particularly when you have no idea what it took or what challenges they faced.)

I've read somewhere above about a "reputation" system, that also ties in to this, we need permanently stored merits, achievements, discoveries, actions for the pilots to feel that they are different than the rest - and mark that in-game, as bragging in the forums is kinda... pen-and-paper like.

You mean like Elite-ranks, faction ranks, powerplay factions, tagging first-found systems, engineer ranks and the other guff that's in there?

Shorter beta please, over month long betas are too much waiting

What the actual f?
Bugs or Betas. Your choice.

I think the ships need a complete redesign to follow a physical model. This means you don't have ridiculous weights for things like a class D life support weighing 100 tons more because it's on a bigger ship.

Scanners, I'm right there with you... but a bigger ship WOULD need a bigger life support system. The big three are massive.

how on earth is this anything like chess , there is no real strategy needed in this game

I'm sure that's what all the pawns think

Context. GTA gives you reasons to care about what you're doing and why you're doing it. My constant mission running and bounty hunting has probably had significant impact on the BGS over time as I tend to stick to one system until I find a reason to move. Do I know I've affected the BGS? No. Does the game give me any indication that I've affected the BGS beyond my rep and mission rewards increasing? No.

Err.. it does. Read the screen when you hand in a mission, it'll give a brief summary of the outcome for both the originating faction and destination faction. Sometimes the outcome is good for both, sometimes the originating faction is screwing over the destination faction (for example, sometimes moving bio-waste means the originating faction is more likely to stay healthy while the destination system is more likely to suffer outbreak).

It doesn't have the same breakdown for bounty-hunting, since it's the same each time... safer system, less chance of lockdown, etc.

 

[lenna]

Clearly some do not find it boring.

But a lot of people do. That's not good.

Define "A LOT", that can mean many things and if you are talking about people that need hand holding (e.g. guiding down a path via some kind of storyboard) or things spoon fed to them (e.g. they can not handle a mass of information and decide how to filter through it themselves) or constant affirmation that they are doing a good job (e.g. constant feedback on progress in any given area) then perhaps they have got into the wrong game. Elite is not an instant gratification title, it is an inherently slow one.

However, if you use third party sites such as INARA (see my sig) then monitoring the state of the universe can become a little clearer and easier. Elite is a naturally slow game that requires ALOT of time investment, it is not a strictly speaking a quick fire action title although to a limited extent it can be played as if it is. It is possible in-game to see and monitor changes to the universe state but given this is an on-line multiplayer title where every player has an effect on the universe state FD have opted for primarily a "turn based approach" to updating the universe state and so you may not see the effect till up to 7 days later.

I would also adjust your statement to say either "ALOT do not find it boring, and ALOT do" or "SOME find it boring, but also SOME do". I think it is an irrelevant statement either way though since it is virtually impossible to ascertain whether the majority do find the game boring or not. The only valid statement (without solid statistics - Steam stats are not solid in any shape or form) would be whether we as individuals find the game boring or not.

Some people buy games on Steam just because they happen to be on sale - or have additional accounts for extra computers - and may never play the titles they bought for a long time. Others may buy games or be gifted them via Steam then will never use the Steam client for them after than that if it is possible to do so (like it is for Elite: Dangerous). I know of at least some players in the latter category (don't use Steam client or similar if they can help it) and such individuals are far from uncommon IME, there are ALOT of people that like to run their games with as little extra software running as possible because they believe it will make a vast difference to the performance of software they do want running. Whether it does or does not is moot at the end of the day but such people do exist and this will skew any on-line statistics dependent on the relevant "extra software" such as Steam.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Way to high light how boring the community is.

See the problem is with boring people like you with the creative nuance of a brick, is a lot of what people are asking for, was told to them by the people at the top... like Braben, on stage, during the kick starter to get people to part with lots of hard earned cash.

You don't do that, you at least try to make it as close to the game you envisioned... Not change the philosophy of the game without telling anyone, yet still promote it as before.

And the truth is, the game is dull and boring, devoid of any real depth. Its tragic the difference between the vision we was sold and the shocking product we got.

Game in development, made clear at kickstarter. Pay attention and wait for the product to either materialise or not. Don't whine if you buy in early and it doesn't match your expectations.

 

[Marcus Tullius]

Game in development, made clear at kickstarter. Pay attention and wait for the product to either materialise or not. Don't whine if you buy in early and it doesn't match your expectations.

Yes, apparently it’s much more profitable to sell dreams instead of real product. There is no difference between Roberts selling pictures in non-existent game and Braben selling his *much more to come* and *exciting things* in shallow and boring game. I haven't seen anything exciting after first week in this game back in the middle of 2015.

 

[Enderby]

Define "A LOT", that can mean many things and if you are talking about people that need hand holding (e.g. guiding down a path via some kind of storyboard) or things spoon fed to them (e.g. they can not handle a mass of information and decide how to filter through it themselves) or constant affirmation that they are doing a good job (e.g. constant feedback on progress in any given area) then perhaps they have got into the wrong game. Elite is not an instant gratification title, it is an inherently slow one.

However, if you use third party sites such as INARA (see my sig) then monitoring the state of the universe can become a little clearer and easier. Elite is a naturally slow game that requires ALOT of time investment, it is not a strictly speaking a quick fire action title although to a limited extent it can be played as if it is. It is possible in-game to see and monitor changes to the universe state but given this is an on-line multiplayer title where every player has an effect on the universe state FD have opted for primarily a "turn based approach" to updating the universe state and so you may not see the effect till up to 7 days later.

I would also adjust your statement to say either "ALOT do not find it boring, and ALOT do" or "SOME find it boring, but also SOME do". I think it is an irrelevant statement either way though since it is virtually impossible to ascertain whether the majority do find the game boring or not. The only valid statement (without solid statistics - Steam stats are not solid in any shape or form) would be whether we as individuals find the game boring or not.

Some people buy games on Steam just because they happen to be on sale - or have additional accounts for extra computers - and may never play the titles they bought for a long time. Others may buy games or be gifted them via Steam then will never use the Steam client for them after than that if it is possible to do so (like it is for Elite: Dangerous). I know of at least some players in the latter category (don't use Steam client or similar if they can help it) and such individuals are far from uncommon IME, there are ALOT of people that like to run their games with as little extra software running as possible because they believe it will make a vast difference to the performance of software they do want running. Whether it does or does not is moot at the end of the day but such people do exist and this will skew any on-line statistics dependent on the relevant "extra software" such as Steam.

OK, it seems to me that a lot of people find it boring.

 

[DefiledDragon]

the topic is PERSONAL OPINIONS but like i said YOU NEED ppl to AGREE with you....u have some and some that doesnt agree with you ...and the comment was about old games on blank paper..

Once again, personal comments. I need people to agree with me? How is that relevant to the topic? Either discuss the issue of the gameplay or lack thereof, depending on your viewpoint, or go away.

- - - Updated - - -

With regards to the BGS, a single player can make a big difference over one tick just by running missions for a faction. The secret is to know which states are valid and which are not and it comes down to common sense. FD released info regarding this a good while ago as well.
I have a lot of hours in this game and a lot of them are dedicated to working the BGS in favour of the faction I'm associated with.
It's not something you can farm like credits but is a rewarding exercise if you take the time to learn how it works as it helps you understand how the game works. Then you can manipulate it to suit your own agenda.

The biggest problem this game has is that it's too easy to shortcut it so people do the most effective credit grind and don't know what to do with their nice, new, shiny ship.
Then they get bored because they don't understand the game.
No one wants to understand how the game works unless it's posted on a YT vid...then everyone thinks they'e great until nerf until the next thing comes around...and repeat.

There is a lot of value in this game if you avoid the shortcuts and play it as a means to understand it but if you don't have the patience for that then your experience will not be good.

It's not a matter of understanding or patience though. I have all the patience in the world, I go fishing and I play golf (amongst other things). Both of those pastimes require self discipline and patience to succeed. The issue with the BGS is that the changes that result from my impact on it are utterly meaningless in terms of the effect it has on the gameplay. If the Empire were to suddenly take control of every single station in the Galaxy tomorrow, how would the gameplay change to reflect that?

 

[DefiledDragon]

I'm not belittling anyone but it has been proven many times on this forum that players who fast-track ships don't even know the basic fundamentals.
All about the credit grind and expecting things to be presented to them.
But riddle me this squire:
If how the BGS worked was openly available to all and didn't take any effort to learn...would that not end up in a never ending stalemate?
I'm not even sure you even got that far because of a bug, to be fair.

I'll reiterate, it's a game that takes time to learn and doesn't give you a lot of directions if you play it for yourself.
If you use any shortcuts, 3rd party tools or anything like that, your experience will be reduced.
The problem is people do not want to engage in the more complex or time consuming things this game offers and just expect things to be presented to them. This game is designed for people to explore and check things out but sadly, most just want to farm stuff and progress the quickest way possible without learning anything about the game. Then demand the game be changed to suit them.

Instead of not belittling people and tell them they just don't understand it, why don't you explain it? Point out the things that they are missing that will make them suddenly realise that the game has depth.

- - - Updated - - -

if you are talking about people that need hand holding (e.g. guiding down a path via some kind of storyboard) or things spoon fed to them (e.g. they can not handle a mass of information and decide how to filter through it themselves) or constant affirmation that they are doing a good job (e.g. constant feedback on progress in any given area) then perhaps they have got into the wrong game. Elite is not an instant gratification title, it is an inherently slow one.

So if you don't like ED, you're just too stupid, childish and impatient to understand it. Got it. Well done.

 

[verminstar]

Game in development, made clear at kickstarter. Pay attention and wait for the product to either materialise or not. Don't whine if you buy in early and it doesn't match your expectations.

Wasnt here fer ks, bought what was advertised as a full game. Told on the forums its a developing game, so either frontier are lying or the players are...or is there something Im missing here? So the game is an open beta perhaps? Why is it then sold as a full game?

Anyway...games is arguably boring fer some and not fer others...argue pedantics all day if ye want, but its just diluting the point being made into yet another case of flaming each other, instead of actually discussing the topic. Its funny actually watching some guys accuse other guys of derailing and taking the the civil tone down...only its them who started that in the first place ^

 

[Blackcompany]

I'm not belittling anyone but it has been proven many times on this forum that players who fast-track ships don't even know the basic fundamentals.
All about the credit grind and expecting things to be presented to them.
But riddle me this squire:
If how the BGS worked was openly available to all and didn't take any effort to learn...would that not end up in a never ending stalemate?
I'm not even sure you even got that far because of a bug, to be fair.

I'll reiterate, it's a game that takes time to learn and doesn't give you a lot of directions if you play it for yourself.
If you use any shortcuts, 3rd party tools or anything like that, your experience will be reduced.
The problem is people do not want to engage in the more complex or time consuming things this game offers and just expect things to be presented to them. This game is designed for people to explore and check things out but sadly, most just want to farm stuff and progress the quickest way possible without learning anything about the game. Then demand the game be changed to suit them.

It's a boring Loading Screen/Wait Wall Sim with RNG gambling and zero depth. THAT is what the game demonstrably IS based on play and observation.

 

[lenna]

It's a boring Loading Screen/Wait Wall Sim with RNG gambling and zero depth. THAT is what the game demonstrably IS based on play and observation.

In your opinion... It is far from an incontrovertible fact as your capitalisation would imply.

@BAGFY: nice summary IMO, +rep. But I believe you are missing the point about "farming stuff then complaining about grind"

 

[Blackcompany]

In your opinion... It is far from an incontrovertible fact as your capitalisation would imply.

@BAGFY: nice summary IMO, +rep. But I believe you are missing the point about "farming stuff then complaining about grind"

So...You can't see the ridiculous number of loading screens per session? Jumping? Dropping)engaging SC? Glide Mode? Mission Board? Invisible to you, are they? Must be the reason you can't see the outrageous number of Wait Wall/Time Sink Mechanics too.

Such as Rare Goods for Rep. Limited spawns. Need 50. Multiple Loading Screens each way, too. Joy! Good old 1984 tech limitations.

And the Gambling. Those RNG slot machine handles. Can't see them either?

If you can't see any of that, I wish I was playing the same game you are.

 

[Druid]

I think the problem at the moment is ED actual identity. What is it ? What do we expect from it?

Lets take two forms of gameplay styles.

Flight sim style. A realistic representation of actually flying something or indeed driving something. Does ED give us that? Sort of but not in totality therefore sim fans are left a bit lacking. Even a player based economy would add to this style.

Gamestyle play. Constructed missions where there are crafted scenarios which add a story and specialised game play. Does ED give us that? Definitely not . Maybe this will change in the future who knows.

Trying to be an all rounder master of nothing will lead to eventual "So what now?" Maybe getting out of your ship and walking about will give FD the options it needs to craft special mission scenarios. Go here walk about this nice place , find this , fix this, talk to them , shoot stuff, escape , next story ark type of thing.

I shall sit and wait and see what happens

 

[lenna]

So...You can't see the ridiculous number of loading screens per session?

Loading screens are inevitable with most games in some shape or form. It is virtually impossible to eliminate them all without introducing other issues.

I do not find the current level of "loading screens" as you call them anything like ridiculous. At least some of the things you have mentioned are more down to networking related concerns and do not affect everyone to the same level or degree of frequency. As the game backend services get more heavily loaded the issues you seem to have mentioned will naturally get worse. There is no getting around that to a large degree. There may be some things that can be done to alleviate the perceived issues but overall I think they are small potatoes compared with some of the other concerns.

Even in comparable off-line single player games such issues can be a lot worse and in those cases more often than not it is down to resource management. Overall, if it were truly 1984 tech limitations things would most likely work faster than they currently do. In reality, FD are probably pushing the limits of various aspects of current tech. However, I do believe that the issues in question are not completely unresolvable - but personally, I think they are not that critical.

The biggest issue IMO is match making server drop outs when no-one else is even in the same area (e.g. when playing solo/private group). It is irritating when it happens, but for me it does not happen that often. However, I think it should be high on FDs list of priorities to fix.

 

[DefiledDragon]

I think the problem at the moment is ED actual identity. What is it ? What do we expect from it?

Lets take two forms of gameplay styles.

Flight sim style. A realistic representation of actually flying something or indeed driving something. Does ED give us that? Sort of but not in totality therefore sim fans are left a bit lacking. Even a player based economy would add to this style.

Gamestyle play. Constructed missions where there are crafted scenarios which add a story and specialised game play. Does ED give us that? Definitely not . Maybe this will change in the future who knows.

Trying to be an all rounder master of nothing will lead to eventual "So what now?" Maybe getting out of your ship and walking about will give FD the options it needs to craft special mission scenarios. Go here walk about this nice place , find this , fix this, talk to them , shoot stuff, escape , next story ark type of thing.

I shall sit and wait and see what happens

It's always suffered from an identity crisis. It has none of the advantages of an MMO (player interaction, guilds/clans/corps, trading etc...) but the single player mode (solo) suffers from all the disadvantages of a poorly implemented MMO (instancing, lag, connection drops etc...). It's a trike. It has all the disadvantages of a motorcycle (vulnerability, open to weather) and all the disadvantages of a car (have to sit in traffic, don't lean into corners, can't do wheelies ) with none of the advantages of either.

 

[SkipRat]

It's always suffered from an identity crisis. It has none of the advantages of an MMO (player interaction, guilds/clans/corps, trading etc...) but the single player mode (solo) suffers from all the disadvantages of a poorly implemented MMO (instancing, lag, connection drops etc...). It's a trike. It has all the disadvantages of a motorcycle (vulnerability, open to weather) and all the disadvantages of a car (have to sit in traffic, don't lean into corners, can't do wheelies ) with none of the advantages of either.

What is this rubbish.

The biggest problem is with elite is that vast swathes of player base can't seem to get it in their god damn heads that Elite DAngerous is not a normal MMO, with god damn bloody guilds, Corporations (as in Eve), boss raids and all the usual sack of generic MMO.

People need to get it into their heads that Elite Dangerous is a game that is from the pilots perspective, you sit in that cockpit and everything that FD should be doing is develop the experience of the pilot...

If you want to run corporations and guilds and all that generic MMO ****, I suggest people go play another game.

So please for the love God and all that is holy in this world, drop this rubbish, clans, guilds, corps will only destroy this game. The player is just a piece fo dirt in the galaxy making his way in no way should anyone be anything other that a dirty scummy pilot.

 

[DefiledDragon]

What is this rubbish.

The biggest problem is with elite is that vast swathes of player base can't seem to get it in their god damn heads that Elite DAngerous is not a normal MMO, with god damn bloody guilds, Corporations (as in Eve), boss raids and all the usual sack of generic MMO.

People need to get it into their heads that Elite Dangerous is a game that is from the pilots perspective, you sit in that cockpit and everything that FD should be doing is develop the experience of the pilot...

If you want to run corporations and guilds and all that generic MMO ****, I suggest people go play another game.

So please for the love God and all that is holy in this world, drop this rubbish, clans, guilds, corps will only destroy this game. The player is just a piece fo dirt in the galaxy making his way in no way should anyone be anything other that a dirty scummy pilot.

I'll drop that "rubbish" when FD stop pitching the game as an MMO experience and not before. If you don't like that, tough .