after stream discussion

So you're not interested in exploring anyway. What's more important; that a game actually has mechanics to engage with, or your playstyle which ostensibly shuns that specific role in the first place?
There is a difference between traveling and exploring... ;) while they can be done at once if I am going somewhere I tend to travel and not explore. However, if I am going out to explore then that's what I do and travel is then the byproduct of the exploration. Strange I know but it takes all sorts :D

And I think exploration upgrades look great and it should be fun to get to learn all the scan display quirks etc.

I had a peculiar, temporary scanner/HUD visual glitch a couple of nights ago that reverted upon entering SC, but aside from that it's been rock solid for months, at least for me.

Thats the thing with bugs though...not everyone appears to have the same experience. Im genuinely glad ye can play the game...I absolutely and honestly mean that. Last time I logged in, I crashed into a full shutdown and restart every time I tried using the SRV...I logged out on the third crash and dont have the motivation to log back in. Not when those same bugs were first reported in september 2017...thats just rubbing salt into an open wound and expecting a happy ending.
I have had more than my fair share of "issues" with this game. And that is the thing that spoils a part of the game for me as well as others, it would be great to play with friends roaming around on planets etc but doing so on the Xbox results in the game crashing. Which is a real shame.

You can still honk. Seeing the bodies in a system will take a matter of seconds (instead of a second). If you fly a DBX you'll know what's in the system before the fuel tank is scooped full.
Interesting, that didn't come across in the stream ...
 
There is a difference between traveling and exploring... ;) while they can be done at once if I am going somewhere I tend to travel and not explore. However, if I am going out to explore then that's what I do and travel is then the byproduct of the exploration. Strange I know but it takes all sorts :D
Yes, there is, and you described traveling. You can't 'travel' in the same way as before, because now exploration actually requires a bit of effort via a game mechanic. Can anyone really, reasonably, complain about a game adding gameplay? The scanner system isn't exactly going to stand up to, say, the best of Dark Souls or a prestige 2D fighter... but Elite's benchmark for what counts as gameplay is exceedingly low (and/or exceedingly subjective), and the new system's objectively more--- well, just MORE than the lack of anything whatsoever beforehand.

Casual flyers/travelers can still fire the scanner, get - apparently - the same amount as they do now, and with a little actual effort and engagement they should be able to learn to recognise what an ELW or a specific gas giant looks like via the scanner.

If someone can't be bothered to do that much out there in the black/bright black, then maybe they should retire their fuel scoops and stick to the Sol or Colonia bubbles. Actual exploration should surely be a discipline to learn and improve at.

I have had more than my fair share of "issues" with this game. And that is the thing that spoils a part of the game for me as well as others, it would be great to play with friends roaming around on planets etc but doing so on the Xbox results in the game crashing. Which is a real shame.
Ah, perhaps that's a bonus of me sticking to Solo, then? For me it's level best with the most stable era/s since Horizons.
 
I think casual explorers will have no problem finding mats, infact it will be easier finding high end ones.

Most gas giants have moons and on the stream the guy scanned 3 moons in like 10 seconds.

Throw in you can now see if it has geysers without travelling to it and with an surface scanner you can pinpoint geysers its basically level 5 mats on tap.
 
There are still serious omissions in this planned exploration update in my opinion:


- There's still no proper planetary navigation. We can't search for, pinpoint or bookmark planetary coordinates. The current method (flying around trying to comprehend how the two coordinates change and trying to turn in the proper direction) is ridiculous. There have been no improvements on this whatsoever, even though the community has requested this feature many times.


- There's no night-vision mode in SRV. While it's nice to have it in the ship, most of the planetary exploration takes place in the SRV which would benefit much more from night-vision mode than the mothership. I really don't understand how Frontier can't implement this feature so it could be actually useful. Having it only in the ship is just a gimmick.


- Still no changeable HUD colors. This is, again, a much requested feature by the community. Now not only do we get new HUD/UI elements, codex, but also lighting improvements and graphical tricks. But still no way to change the HUD color. This is a major disappointment.


- Confusing exploration mechanics. The new system may be faster for people who want to scan everything but it's way slower for "honk and jump" players. Simply honking will not reveal anything so it will not give money for the player. Also, just for honking we will have to change into exploration mode which is an extra button press while it was instantaneous before. Also, if a system has been scanned before all the bodies will be already revealed. Which, in itself is a good thing, but again reducing the possible money explorers can earn by honking a system, which will probably be 0 most of the time anyway (since only the main star will be revealed by a honk).


Undisclosed questions:


- What is the keybind for switching to exploration mode on a console controller?
- What happens if the player is interdicted while he's scanning the system? (Explorers will be extremely vulnerable while they are parked in supercruise, tuning their scanner.)
- What if bodies are on the opposite side of the main star (so they are covered by it)? Does the player have to circle around the star to see them? It would take even more time.
- How do the exploration earnings change?


All in all, while the update contains imaginative features I do think it has some missed opportunities and it will basically just complicate things instead of making exploration more worthwhile. The main problem with exploration was never the way it was done, the problem has always been that there was barely anything worth finding out there which seems to remain the same. I don't see real added content. This is my main doubt. It is spectacular but nothing more right now and it will only mean a deeper time sink than before.
 
There are still serious omissions in this planned exploration update in my opinion:


- There's still no proper planetary navigation. We can't search for, pinpoint or bookmark planetary coordinates. The current method (flying around trying to comprehend how the two coordinates change and trying to turn in the proper direction) is ridiculous. There have been no improvements on this whatsoever, even though the community has requested this feature many times.


- There's no night-vision mode in SRV. While it's nice to have it in the ship, most of the planetary exploration takes place in the SRV which would benefit much more from night-vision mode than the mothership. I really don't understand how Frontier can't implement this feature so it could be actually useful. Having it only in the ship is just a gimmick.


- Still no changeable HUD colors. This is, again, a much requested feature by the community. Now not only do we get new HUD/UI elements, codex, but also lighting improvements and graphical tricks. But still no way to change the HUD color. This is a major disappointment.


- Confusing exploration mechanics. The new system may be faster for people who want to scan everything but it's way slower for "honk and jump" players. Simply honking will not reveal anything so it will not give money for the player. Also, just for honking we will have to change into exploration mode which is an extra button press while it was instantaneous before. Also, if a system has been scanned before all the bodies will be already revealed. Which, in itself is a good thing, but again reducing the possible money explorers can earn by honking a system, which will probably be 0 most of the time anyway (since only the main star will be revealed by a honk).


Undisclosed questions:


- What is the keybind for switching to exploration mode on a console controller?
- What happens if the player is interdicted while he's scanning the system? (Explorers will be extremely vulnerable while they are parked in supercruise, tuning their scanner.)
- What if bodies are on the opposite side of the main star (so they are covered by it)? Does the player have to circle around the star to see them? It would take even more time.
- How do the exploration earnings change?


All in all, while the update contains imaginative features I do think it has some missed opportunities and it will basically just complicate things instead of making exploration more worthwhile. The main problem with exploration was never the way it was done, the problem has always been that there was barely anything worth finding out there which seems to remain the same. I don't see real added content. This is my main doubt. It is spectacular but nothing more right now and it will only mean a deeper time sink than before.

The honk will give the same payout under the new system as it does now; the 'traveller' type was addressed in the live stream by Adam Waite (44 minutes).

Also, due to the collaborative nature of discoveries, you'll automatically receive system data upon jumping in, if the system has already been explored. It's very unlikely you'll be interdicted in an unexplored system
 
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Agreed. There is a wide tranch of people who come to Elite with an expectation they have bought a shoot 'em up MMO in space and are disappointed. Especially when they want to be 'fed' a 'campaign mode' with prewritten scenarios. Or they expect a linear ladder of progression tso they have goals given to them. Personally i dislike that kind of gameplay.
The reality is that Elite is simply not that kind of game.
If you think of Elite as being a space simulation game - then it is in many ways absolutely staggering in its breadth. Not just the size of the galaxy, but the BGS (which is widely misunderstood) offer a dynamic environment. Sure there are clunky bits and there will be some developments and then rewrites, but in many ways they are doing things that are new, or at least in a different way.

Completely agree with this - Elite is more of a space flight sim - similar to those flight sims you can get where there is occasionally a mission to take a package to certain airport etc. People may say that being a courier for small packages in a light aircraft is a boring concept for a game - which is true because it is a sim not a game.

Going back to the original Elite - you could trade, fight and do some upgrades - then it was all about being elite and making money - the games was hugely grindy - but back in the day for those of us it meant we could escape reality for a few hours and be a space trucker - you had to imagine the worlds you were going to in your head.

I think the problem with a number of elite players is that they are actually looking for an end point, a time when they can say they have 'done' Elite - maybe that would be when you have got triple Elite - but then you would not have been to every planet - or even every space station/outpost/base in the bubble.

For those of us who loved Elite in the beginning the fact that I can get into my Cobra, buy 32 tonnes of Computers and take them to an Agricultural world and make a profit holds the same amount of 'fun' now with great graphics etc as it did then with wireframes...
 
- There's still no proper planetary navigation. We can't search for, pinpoint or bookmark planetary coordinates. The current method (flying around trying to comprehend how the two coordinates change and trying to turn in the proper direction) is ridiculous. There have been no improvements on this whatsoever, even though the community has requested this feature many times.
You'll now be able to probe a planet's surface and generate POI's of various kinds from orbit, so I'd say that's progress.

- Still no changeable HUD colors. This is, again, a much requested feature by the community. Now not only do we get new HUD/UI elements, codex, but also lighting improvements and graphical tricks. But still no way to change the HUD color. This is a major disappointment.
Is that really a priority? To call a colour change a "major disappointment" seems a bit OTT.

- Confusing exploration mechanics. The new system may be faster for people who want to scan everything but it's way slower for "honk and jump" players. Simply honking will not reveal anything so it will not give money for the player.
No it's not. Firing the ADS (or the 'pulse', whatever the new name for it is) will still net you the same amount as last time.

...and with a tiny glimmer of effort and actual gameplay engagement, 'travelers' will still be able to cherry pick systems as before - and it will likely save them time, too, given they won't have to approach a body for a DSS. It'll be immeasurably faster to find surface POI's due to probes, too.

Added complexity and engagement - but faster/better results. Not sure I see the downside, all in all.

Also, just for honking we will have to change into exploration mode which is an extra button press while it was instantaneous before.
...do you want participation in your game or not? I gather you'll still be able to fly around in SC whilst using the primary scanner, so people will soon nail down a fairly swift method of gauging whether they want to cherry pick or not, or just move on. Provided they learn the basics of the scanner - just as players learned the SRV's wave scanner.

Also, if a system has been scanned before all the bodies will be already revealed. Which, in itself is a good thing, but again reducing the possible money explorers can earn by honking a system, which will probably be 0 most of the time anyway (since only the main star will be revealed by a honk).
Barely anything will really be changed from how it works now - 'cept the game now has gameplay systems.

As in; currently you drop, fire the ADS, and usually reveal a screen full of Discovered By bodies. At the moment the player must approach in SC and use the DSS.

If the new system works as you've described (which I think it does?), then this is what'll happen; you fire the ADS/pulse, potentially generating the system map. If you jump, you still get the same amount of pay. If you approach and probe/map worlds? You'll get the increased detailed scan pay out (plus bonuses for system clearing and efficient probing, oo er).

...so it's pretty much identical. 'Cept now the effort to build the system maps is communal. Players will still be able to do exactly what they're currently doing, i.e. jumping and ADS'ing, or approach bodies to generate far more revenue (it seems you'll be able to probe ELW's, too, if the stream info was correct).

I think my favourite little detail was that the audio cues for the radio signals of each body are either actually extrapolated from real sound files, or those have been used to build the audio cue used in the game.

Completely agree with this - Elite is more of a space flight sim - similar to those flight sims you can get where there is occasionally a mission to take a package to certain airport etc. People may say that being a courier for small packages in a light aircraft is a boring concept for a game - which is true because it is a sim not a game.
A sim is still a game. And Elite is a relatively very casual, very accessible game, at least by true sim standards. It's a sci-fantasy/pop sci-fi videogame cosplaying as a sim. I'd love it to be more than that, but I'll take its accessibility and simplicity - and nonsensical physics limitations and weird cockpit and ship designs - over nothing at all, especially on console.
 
The new Discovery Scanner will still be an optional internal module. All that has changed in regard to that is that all previous Discovery Scanners are now a single module: Advanced Discovery Scanner'. Everyone's Discovery Scanner will be replaced with the Advanced Discovery Scanner, so if you're out in the black, you won't need to return home to get a new scanner.

Well as nearly all of my ships have an ADS I will be selling them all and replacing them with the basic scanner, which will then be replaced with an ADS thus netting me about 35 million :D
 
<snipped for brevity>...Undisclosed questions:


- What is the keybind for switching to exploration mode on a console controller </snip>

Don't know if you noticed...but Will was using an Xbox controller throughout the livestream [yesnod]
 
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Well as nearly all of my ships have an ADS I will be selling them all and replacing them with the basic scanner, which will then be replaced with an ADS thus netting me about 35 million :D
I thought the original plan was to give people refunds for intermediate or advanced discovey scanners ... Will, can you confirm?
 
The honk will give the same payout under the new system as it does now; the 'traveller' type was addressed in the live stream by Adam Waite (44 minutes).

Also, due to the collaborative nature of discoveries, you'll automatically receive system data upon jumping in, if the system has already been explored. It's very unlikely you'll be interdicted in an unexplored system

When you arrive in a system that has already been explored, all the bodies will be revealed, I assume even without the "honk". So how does honking net you money anymore? Everything's there, it would not change anything. I think the "honk will pay as much as before" only applies to completely unexplored systems. But we all know that while traveling, most systems have been explored by someone. Due to the way the route plotter works (and most ships have similar jump ranges) it's most possible to jump into already explored systems. Also, now that exploration will be mutual (whenever someone sells data anywhere, on any platform, your map will be filled with it) the update will radically reduce the number of unexplored systems. I watched the video and know what Adam said but I still don't understand how honking an already explored system would net any money. The only systems to give money should be completely uncharted systems if I'm right. And yes I know it's still 99.8% of the galaxy but we all know traditional routes are much more explored than that. For example, if I decide to go to Colonia, and use the traditional route it's possible I'll get very little money for the long journey, simply because most systems will be explored on the way. My map will be filled with all those bodies so my "honks" will be worthless.

Edit: Not to mention that you have to switch to "exploration mode" after every single jump. Then back to flying mode when the "honk" is done to jump to the next. I don't yet see how this isn't an extremely tedious procedure.
 
When you arrive in a system that has already been explored, all the bodies will be revealed, I assume even without the "honk". So how does honking net you money anymore? Everything's there, it would not change anything. I think the "honk will pay as much as before" only applies to completely unexplored systems. But we all know that while traveling, most systems have been explored by someone. Due to the way the route plotter works (and most ships have similar jump ranges) it's most possible to jump into already explored systems. Also, now that exploration will be mutual (whenever someone sells data anywhere, on any platform, your map will be filled with it) the update will radically reduce the number of unexplored systems. I watched the video and know what Adam said but I still don't understand how honking an already explored system would net any money. The only systems to give money should be completely uncharted systems if I'm right. And yes I know it's still 99.8% of the galaxy but we all know traditional routes are much more explored than that. For example, if I decide to go to Colonia, and use the traditional route it's possible I'll get very little money for the long journey, simply because most systems will be explored on the way. My map will be filled with all those bodies so my "honks" will be worthless.

Edit: Not to mention that you have to switch to "exploration mode" after every single jump. Then back to flying mode when the "honk" is done to jump to the next. I don't yet see how this isn't an extremely tedious procedure.

Currently a honk in a system which others have explored (i.e. no first discovered) still nets you your own discovery pay out. I don't think this has changed.
 
Currently a honk in a system which others have explored (i.e. no first discovered) still nets you your own discovery pay out. I don't think this has changed.

It has changed because honking will not reveal anything anymore, only the main star. So if you "honk and jump" and it's an unexplored system, you'll still see nothing in it. Whereas if someone explores it with the new method (and sells the data), every body will be revealed not as "Unexplored" but by proper names etc. And such a system doesn't give you money with a honk since everything's known there. So you have two options after the update:

If it's a completely unexplored system:

- Honk & jump: You'll only see (and possibly get money for) the main star, nothing else.
- Stop and explore with the new scanner: You'll get every data on every body.

If it's already an explored system:

- Honk will give you no new data or money (just as today)
- Nothing to explore since all bodies are already revealed (filled automatically on the fly as people sell data)

So what I don't see is the "you honk, you discover 10-20-50 astronomical bodies, you don't explore them further but you still get money for the whole system" variation.
 
I thought the original plan was to give people refunds for intermediate or advanced discovey scanners ... Will, can you confirm?

Given the companies track record with original plans, I think I'll waste the time selling each ADS from each ship before the update is made live... :D
 
There are still serious omissions in this planned exploration update in my opinion:


- There's still no proper planetary navigation. We can't search for, pinpoint or bookmark planetary coordinates. The current method (flying around trying to comprehend how the two coordinates change and trying to turn in the proper direction) is ridiculous. There have been no improvements on this whatsoever, even though the community has requested this feature many times.


- There's no night-vision mode in SRV. While it's nice to have it in the ship, most of the planetary exploration takes place in the SRV which would benefit much more from night-vision mode than the mothership. I really don't understand how Frontier can't implement this feature so it could be actually useful. Having it only in the ship is just a gimmick.


- Still no changeable HUD colors. This is, again, a much requested feature by the community. Now not only do we get new HUD/UI elements, codex, but also lighting improvements and graphical tricks. But still no way to change the HUD color. This is a major disappointment.


- Confusing exploration mechanics. The new system may be faster for people who want to scan everything but it's way slower for "honk and jump" players. Simply honking will not reveal anything so it will not give money for the player. Also, just for honking we will have to change into exploration mode which is an extra button press while it was instantaneous before. Also, if a system has been scanned before all the bodies will be already revealed. Which, in itself is a good thing, but again reducing the possible money explorers can earn by honking a system, which will probably be 0 most of the time anyway (since only the main star will be revealed by a honk).


Undisclosed questions:


- What is the keybind for switching to exploration mode on a console controller?
- What happens if the player is interdicted while he's scanning the system? (Explorers will be extremely vulnerable while they are parked in supercruise, tuning their scanner.)
- What if bodies are on the opposite side of the main star (so they are covered by it)? Does the player have to circle around the star to see them? It would take even more time.
- How do the exploration earnings change?


All in all, while the update contains imaginative features I do think it has some missed opportunities and it will basically just complicate things instead of making exploration more worthwhile. The main problem with exploration was never the way it was done, the problem has always been that there was barely anything worth finding out there which seems to remain the same. I don't see real added content. This is my main doubt. It is spectacular but nothing more right now and it will only mean a deeper time sink than before.


It would be nice to enter coordinates into a ship/srv onboard computer for easier navigation to surface location items
 
It has changed because honking will not reveal anything anymore, only the main star. So if you "honk and jump" and it's an unexplored system, you'll still see nothing in it. Whereas if someone explores it with the new method (and sells the data), every body will be revealed not as "Unexplored" but by proper names etc. And such a system doesn't give you money with a honk since everything's known there. So you have two options after the update:

If it's a completely unexplored system:

- Honk & jump: You'll only see (and possibly get money for) the main star, nothing else.
- Stop and explore with the new scanner: You'll get every data on every body.

If it's already an explored system:

- Honk will give you no new data or money (just as today)
- Nothing to explore since all bodies are already revealed (filled automatically on the fly as people sell data)

So what I don't see is the "you honk, you discover 10-20-50 astronomical bodies, you don't explore them further but you still get money for the whole system" variation.

What I understood was that when you honk a system that has previously been discovered you'll know what is in the system but each body will show as Unexplored, much like it does now for high population systems.
 
So, is the DSS being changed along with the ADS and if so what is happening to the current DSS?

I have a few DSS' in ships and most of them are engineered.
 
I just saw the mining and squadron livestream and il tell you this i cant wait to rob miners. For once fdev are doing something right and pretty cool, id wish they had put pre typed msg system in to quickly msg ppl telling them my intentions to rob them. So far and soo good now we wait to see more
 
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