AI and why I now hate them...

[Mister_Fear]

He's incapable to grasp the concept of a speed limit, just as he's incapable to grasp the concept that entering a high-end RES in a low-end fighter at a low skill level isn't a good idea. Once someone realised that, it just never happens. It's not magic, just common sense. He's definitely trolling.



Legacy fines are largely irrelevant. I have a 3.7 mill legacy fine in Sol and I do business there just as I please.

It's got nothing to do with a speedlimit, never once have I been fined for flying too fast. I also wasnt speeding when i got hit by the AI, i always slow down for the mailbox just in case something appears on the other side, since it almost always does when I'm flying my Type 9.

Instead of just throwing out personal attacks maybe add something constructive. The reply you've made is literally the definition of trolling bud so trying to throw that accusation at me really is pathetic when you're the troll here. Yet another reason why I'm slowly starting to dislike ED, the toxicity and negativity from so much of the community and blatant fanboying is obscene all over these forums.

Last I checked the Vulture isn't a "low end" fighter either. Since there is no dedicated Fighter above the Vulture anyway, except maybe the FDL but even then its a bit big to be classed as a Fighter, more a heavy fighter, everything past that is Multi-role combat capable ships, which are NOT fighters.

The fact that you have totally ignored that the Fine system goes against all logic as well is funny. Many other folk have brought it up before, fines are too low for extreme actions and too severe for stuff that would hardly warrant a slap on the wrists. Really not sure why FD didn't base their fine system off of something that already exists in reality and is proven to work, instead of making a universe where death is the answer to 99% of rule breaking.

having fines just "timeout" is also completely idiotic. I highly doubt in any advanced society capable of space travel would they simply ignore fines after a few days...

 

[Zeeman]

Haz REZ "needs" to have wings of Dangerous+ large ships - how else are those of us at Dangerous and Deadly meant to get to Elite?

Z...

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

It's got nothing to do with a speedlimit, never once have I been fined for flying too fast. I also wasnt speeding when i got hit by the AI, i always slow down for the mailbox just in case something appears on the other side, since it almost always does when I'm flying my Type 9.

That's odd - I pass the mailbox at 300 m/s on a regular basis using a Cutter and in 2700 hours of playing this game, I wasn't hit by the AI one single time. Hint: Probably because I watch the scanner when doing so.

Apologies if you felt attacked on a personal level, but the game seriously lacks PVE content for anything but Sidewinders and Eagles and requesting to dumb it down even further doesn't sit all that well with me. Nothing personal.

 

[Krieger]

Haz REZ "needs" to have wings of Dangerous+ large ships - how else are those of us at Dangerous and Deadly meant to get to Elite?

Z...

You can get to Elite by destroying only Expert ranked NPCs. But it's slow because they only count for 0.25 point if you're Deadly IIRC.

 

[Faded Glory]

You can get to Elite by destroying only Expert ranked NPCs. But it's slow because they only count for 0.25 point if you're Deadly IIRC.

I believe that all ship ranks give you a very small increase now. In fact, I suspect even destroying skimmers goes towards your rank increase, because at one point I got a percentage raise, and all I had been shooting for a while were skimmers, (and I'm Deadly).

To answer Zeeman's question though... Slowly.

 

[Siranui]

Paying fines remotely has been in the game for three months now.

Last I checked the Vulture isn't a "low end" fighter either. Since there is no dedicated Fighter above the Vulture anyway, except maybe the FDL but even then its a bit big to be classed as a Fighter, more a heavy fighter, everything past that is Multi-role combat capable ships, which are NOT fighters.

The Vulture is a medium level combat ship at best. There's no debate that the FDL is a dedicated fighter, or the FAS. Even the Vette at the high end.

But at least we've solved the 'issue' of your breach damage being low, eh? Down to those beam lasers and not the AI cheating after all. You're welcome.

 

[Bearcat]

I find the Haz Rez to be challenging and fun as long as I am alone and flying in my Viper Mk III (engineered). I even died once, when I boosted into an Asteroid...

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

I find the Haz Rez to be challenging and fun as long as I am alone and flying in my Viper Mk III (engineered). I even died once, when I boosted into an Asteroid...

I had a great time last night in my Eagle with G5 dirty drives and 3 small fixed beam lasers. I'm working on my FA: OFF fixed weapon practice. Anyways...

This was a High RES. I saw a Dangerous Anaconda fighting a cop, so naturally I fly over and opened up on him, expecting the policeman to keep him busy. The policeman promptly popped like a firecracker on the 4th of July under the conda's fire, in which case he turned on me. Did I mention I had been out there for over an hour and the planet was now eclipsing the ring we were in? Did I also mention I considered the extra weight added by equpping a chaff launcher to be beneath me? Well, frantically using evasive maneuvers through barely visible rocks is exhilarating!

And who should I see but ANOTHER Anaconda in a scrape with local police. Of course I engaged, so now I'm evading one PO'd Anaconda, while stripping the shields off another, and flying in the darkness. It felt truly epic. The police were (of course) completely ignoring my original Anaconda, and I somehow managed to do enough damage to the second to turn from the police to me.

Zipping through black asteroids evading both Anacondas, I eventually kept them herded close enough to the police (+ my potshots) to get the job done.

That's been my personal best combat experience in a long time. And for reference, I was doing combat zones pretty much all weekend. This, though. This was something special.

 

[Noddie]

I miss the old "tough" AI. The problem for me was that FD had the right idea, but did it in the wrong way;

They buffed every level of AI very significantly and without real warning or explanation. We'd all got used to just ignoring the ratings of NPC ships because they were all - realistically - pushovers. Then, suddenly, hardened career criminals and military special forces (!) started to be actually quite good at flying their spaceships and people panicked. All you actually had to do was pick your battles a bit, watch your reputation and pay attention to what you were attacking before attacking it. But people had got used to ignoring all that, and were also still carrying the reputation they'd garnered by doing so.

What FS should have done is leave the Elites and other high ratings with the tough AI and tail it all the way to "Harmless", which would be the old "roll-of-death" AI. Simple as. Don't relate it to the player's rank, let them decide if they want to take on harder AI or not. But since they rewards scale with NPC rank, they are at least motivated to do so if they feel they can.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I miss the old "tough" AI. The problem for me was that FD had the right idea, but did it in the wrong way;

They buffed every level of AI very significantly and without real warning or explanation. We'd all got used to just ignoring the ratings of NPC ships because they were all - realistically - pushovers. Then, suddenly, hardened career criminals and military special forces (!) started to be actually quite good at flying their spaceships and people panicked. All you actually had to do was pick your battles a bit, watch your reputation and pay attention to what you were attacking before attacking it. But people had got used to ignoring all that, and were also still carrying the reputation they'd garnered by doing so.

What FS should have done is leave the Elites and other high ratings with the tough AI and tail it all the way to "Harmless", which would be the old "roll-of-death" AI. Simple as. Don't relate it to the player's rank, let them decide if they want to take on harder AI or not. But since they rewards scale with NPC rank, they are at least motivated to do so if they feel they can.

I will be delighted for SJA to see her minions fully unleashed.

I will be equally delighted by the "why isn't anyone playing anymore" posts.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I will be delighted for SJA to see her minions fully unleashed.

I will be equally delighted by the "why isn't anyone playing anymore" posts.

That's an interesting question once Thargoids give up their current 'turn the other cheek' attitude.

I've read your posts and I'd say your attitude is just fine. Middle class ships with mostly lower end engineering and that's fine - you know what you can do and act accordingly.

Now take the OP: Low end ship and apparently zero experience, picking top-end fights without even considering trying to learn on the lower levels because he feels entitled to be the chosen hero smashing Anacondas left and right from the get-go in his noob-Vulture.

Where does that leave interesting PVE-Content for someone with moderate experience owning a noob-Corvette like me?

It's a snore-fest - apparently I'm Connor Macleod of the Clan Macleod and I cannot die.

 

[Mister_Fear]

That's an interesting question once Thargoids give up their current 'turn the other cheek' attitude.

I've read your posts and I'd say your attitude is just fine. Middle class ships with mostly lower end engineering and that's fine - you know what you can do and act accordingly.

Now take the OP: Low end ship and apparently zero experience, picking top-end fights without even considering trying to learn on the lower levels because he feels entitled to be the chosen hero smashing Anacondas left and right from the get-go in his noob-Vulture.

Where does that leave interesting PVE-Content for someone with moderate experience owning a noob-Corvette like me?

It's a snore-fest - apparently I'm Connor Macleod of the Clan Macleod and I cannot die.

Not sure if sarcastic or just trolling.

We already knocked on the point that the vulture is more of a medium class fighter.

Woopdy doo you have a corvette, nobody cares.

I have experience, I don't take top-end fights, unless you somehow believe and elite AI flying a clipper or a python is top-end.

Top-end fights should never be AI anyway imo, it should be reserved for highly skilled PvP encounters. Since everyone is all about choice in here, that would mean you'd have to choose to go and engage in those "top-end" fights (since solo only is a pretty popular choice it would negate the chance of accidentally getting involved).

Is the typical response from fanboys not "it's elite you make the game and create the content yourself" - so surely someone like yourself with the capability of flying a corvette like it's an eagle would just buy other ships and make fun from the game in other ways?

Or are all the fanboys wrong and the game is still the same old "wide as ocean but deep as a puddle"?

 

[jasonbarron]

I had a great time last night in my Eagle with G5 dirty drives and 3 small fixed beam lasers. I'm working on my FA: OFF fixed weapon practice. Anyways...

This was a High RES. I saw a Dangerous Anaconda fighting a cop, so naturally I fly over and opened up on him, expecting the policeman to keep him busy. The policeman promptly popped like a firecracker on the 4th of July under the conda's fire, in which case he turned on me. Did I mention I had been out there for over an hour and the planet was now eclipsing the ring we were in? Did I also mention I considered the extra weight added by equpping a chaff launcher to be beneath me? Well, frantically using evasive maneuvers through barely visible rocks is exhilarating!

And who should I see but ANOTHER Anaconda in a scrape with local police. Of course I engaged, so now I'm evading one PO'd Anaconda, while stripping the shields off another, and flying in the darkness. It felt truly epic. The police were (of course) completely ignoring my original Anaconda, and I somehow managed to do enough damage to the second to turn from the police to me.

Zipping through black asteroids evading both Anacondas, I eventually kept them herded close enough to the police (+ my potshots) to get the job done.

That's been my personal best combat experience in a long time. And for reference, I was doing combat zones pretty much all weekend. This, though. This was something special.

You described that really well, made me feel like I was reading about a great battle.

 

[Mister_Fear]

Paying fines remotely has been in the game for three months now.



The Vulture is a medium level combat ship at best. There's no debate that the FDL is a dedicated fighter, or the FAS. Even the Vette at the high end.

But at least we've solved the 'issue' of your breach damage being low, eh? Down to those beam lasers and not the AI cheating after all. You're welcome.

Thing is that breach damage issue never got solved, you say it's down to beams but the stats on beams in game show it to be better at breaching than other lasers (breach chance is significantly higher) and the breach damage difference between all the lasers was negligible last I checked.

So it still begs the question why gimballed weapons do next to no breach damage unless they are specifically targeted at the module and nothing else. Now I'm not talking untargeting and firing them like fixed weapons, cos that actually works fine as i know where most Power plants are.

What doesn't seem to work whether it's lasers, multicannons, or cannons is running gimballed and only shooting the "hull" with no module targeted, the breach damage to modules all over the ship is negligible.

Use a frag cannon at point blank, a torpedo or a rocket though and suddenly you're wiping ship modules like they're the shields on a sidewinder... which I get, explosives should do that and they work fine.

Just seems like the bleed through damage from lasers, MCs, and cannons is so unnoticeable, an example would be you target the power plant but your enemy go evasive so your weapons can only strike his thrusters, but if you retarget to his thrusters I'd guarantee they'd be like 99% despite getting hit with enough damage that probably reduced the hull by 10%...

I think the point I'm trying to make is it would be more enjoyable to see AI have the same level of module malfunction and damage as the hull gets damaged. Right now you can wipe an AI ship from 100%-0% without even a single module dropping out. Do that to a player ship and it's a different story entirely.

 

[DNA-Decay]

I read: The AI and why I hate them.
And I thought "This will be good" - but then you're talking about NPCs.

Carry on.

 

[Mister_Fear]

I read: The AI and why I hate them.
And I thought "This will be good" - but then you're talking about NPCs.

Carry on.

Thanks for that constructive addition to the post, it's greatly appreciated.

- - - Updated - - -

Paying fines remotely has been in the game for three months now.

If you mean the utterly pointless "look you can pay fines off at any random out of the way station". Honestly can't even say I noticed it had been implemented when I started playing again after a break, I knew it was there but it really makes no difference from what the game was like before...

It's not really what people have been asking for with a "remote" paying option. Last I looked most had asked to have small fines payable from your ship HUD or some way to pay the fine to local police forces without being mobbed over 200cr or having to leave the zone your in. If the police can update their system for wanted criminals remotely on the fly then why aren't fines/bounties payable on the fly (with an upper limit of course).

Guess a simple, logical system that mimicks an already working system from reality regarding fines, is too much to ask.

 

[Heavenly-Hammer]

I will be delighted for SJA to see her minions fully unleashed.

I will be equally delighted by the "why isn't anyone playing anymore" posts.

This.

I preferred them as they were in the 2.0 beta. Hard to kill as you would expect anyone who wants to hang on to their lives would be. They ran away a little too often, but their styles were excellent. It could take several minutes to kill one of them in certain ships. I miss those times. When it actually felt like you were on even footing with an opponent rather than a large boot bearing down on a band of ants.

I want to feel like an Admiral or a King; not a god.

Maybe the solution, then, is to make battles long and hard, but make the payouts several times higher to compensate for the inability to mow down ships in under 30 seconds with ease as we do now. That would make the newfound work it takes to kill a given ship worth the risk and moves ED away from feeling like a "farming" game.

 

[frostypaw]

Or are all the fanboys wrong and the game is still the same old "wide as ocean but deep as a puddle"?

Wondered if the thread was serious to start with considering what a pushover the NPCs are since the grand nerf, but now I'm pretty sure what it is.

Rather than all this drama and demanding the game changes find out a bit more about what you're playing and how it works and why it is the way it is. You should have seen the pre-nerf AI - wow there would have been some proper upset then!!! Put a fair few folk in their place I think. I miss it.

 

[Mister_Fear]

This.

I preferred them as they were in the 2.0 beta. Hard to kill as you would expect anyone who wants to hang on to their lives would be. They ran away a little too often, but their styles were excellent. It could take several minutes to kill one of them in certain ships. I miss those times. When it actually felt like you were on even footing with an opponent rather than a large boot bearing down on a band of ants.

I want to feel like an Admiral or a King; not a god.

Maybe the solution, then, is to make battles long and hard, but make the payouts several times higher to compensate for the inability to mow down ships in under 30 seconds with ease as we do now. That would make the newfound work it takes to kill a given ship worth the risk and moves ED away from feeling like a "farming" game.

Honestly that's probably the most sensible reply I've seen.

I entirely agree that in a lot of PvE situations it just boils down to "I need to be killing 100 ship's an hour otherwise I may as well go trade for money".

Increasing rewards in a linear scale with the time to kill an opponent, based on opponent skill and probably other factors, would basically negate the problem the game has right now - having to stay out in combat for hours and hours at a time just to make it worthwhile, turning combat into Trading 2.0 instead of Have challenging fun while earning decent payouts.

Half of the issues I've had have arrisen from getting sloppy in combat areas, making mistakes because of a need to "farm" - caused by this "heavy mmo grind" that ED has pushed players into if they want to progress through the ship's.

The other half have been, for want of a better word, "discussed" here.

- - - Updated - - -

Wondered if the thread was serious to start with considering what a pushover the NPCs are since the grand nerf, but now I'm pretty sure what it is.

Rather than all this drama and demanding the game changes find out a bit more about what you're playing and how it works and why it is the way it is. You should have seen the pre-nerf AI - wow there would have been some proper upset then!!! Put a fair few folk in their place I think. I miss it.

So what is it the in your opinion?

I don't see any drama or demands, I've seen suggestions and a little vented frustration with the games current state.

I did see the prenerf AI, wouldn't have been an issue if the payouts for them were adjusted accordingly. Pre nerf AI really had no bearing on the other 2/3rds of the games players as well though, such as traders and explorers who probably see combat once in a blue moon, I know from my experience those play choices are little if not zero combat.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Half of the issues I've had have arrisen from getting sloppy in combat areas, making mistakes because of a need to "farm" - caused by this "heavy mmo grind" that ED has pushed players into if they want to progress through the ship's.

Worst grind ever was trying to get the rank to be able to buy the FDS. Then, when I got the FDS, I hated it and wound up back in the ships I used to grind for it.

Instead of chasing after the ships, why don't you just play the game and let the ships come to you?