AI: We Can Have It Both Ways And All Be Happy

[PotatoOverdose]

You can buy all (I'm pretty sure, at least) engineer "commodities" (as in cargo space items) at specific locations around the human bubble. There's more information about it in that Engineer Calculator thread over here https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ring-Database-And-Calculator-Engineers-Update ; so you *ought* to be safe selling them? Check the database to be sure, I could be wrong.

edit: Alternatively, though expensive-ish, you could land and buy a ship that has enough stock cargo space to hold whatever commodities you have. (If you have too many for even that, then wow!)

The storage thing is an issue, sure. But in a sense you're already upping your own challenge, cause it's sure to lure NPC attackers after you.

In your case, well...the tools are there but your hands are full with Engineers stuff.

(I'd have been happy with no Engineers or AI changes but then, that's definitely my own biased view. My favorite part of 2.1 are the flight traffic controllers.)



Funny picture!

The difference is whether you're duct-taping yourself to the wall, or demanding that someone force you up against the wall along with every body else there who came to enjoy the same party.

Did not know you could buy some of those components. That's actually quite useful, thanks. Will have to double check if the components I need atm are available on market in game; quite useful if they are.

 

[V'larr]

No problem, PotatoOverdose.

You're the one "asking" people to duct tape themselves willingly and somehow still have fun with 0.01 % of the game.
Interesting that you still see yourself as a (group of) victim(s). Come play in open and I'll help you get into the role a little better.

Asking? No, suggesting, based on the level of vitriol raised by individuals such as your self demanding things need to be insufferably difficult in order to be enjoyable.
I'm just fine whether you decide to take heed of such advice or move on.

Nor do I consider myself a victim, but I do know I am not hardly alone in disliking that higher challenge being applied everywhere.

Not surprised, either, to see you're the sort who really says things like "come fight me bro" when faced with coherent counterarguments. For the record, I would quit before being forced to play open. Could I beat you? Possibly, maybe even probably, but I don't care to be stressed about it or being roped into things if I don't want to be.

Which is what this thread is all about, reaching a consensus where we can all enjoy what we want without excluding parts of the game from people who enjoy different things - differing levels of AI difficulty, for instance.

 

[V'larr]

Short anecdote after actually meeting the AI tonight in my FAS:

Third ship I attack at the Wolf 397 nav beacon tonight was a wanted, Dangerous FDS (Federal Agent for Zach Hudson). It was already engaged with a horde of security vipers (3? 4? 5? Who's counting?).

Moment I fired on it, it focused on me. I quickly found out it had heat-beams, missiles, railguns, full HRP package, bi-weave shields, SCBs, in about that order, and that it had no trouble tracking me to hit me with the rails, either, unless I was in the middle of a full boost burn.

Any time I'd start to get out of its fire scope, it would boost-FAoff-flipover and start hammering me again.

Long story short I had to run from a slugfest I was steadily losing ground on...and it was just a Dangerous FDS. (And escaping to supercruise with rails aimed & firing at me was 'fun' )

So now I'm awful skeptical of any arguments that this new AI is lobotomized.

Now, there was a Novice Sidewinder (it was wanted!) that sat entirely still when I blew it up...not that it had a chance to hardly move....

I had better luck the rest of the evening, no irrecoverable damage, had to be real careful of a few wings, but that's it.

So a little bit of danger, but nothing to make me feel like it's not worth bothering unless I'm ready to have a nosebleed. Nice and cozy.

 

[Riverside]

So a little bit of danger, but nothing to make me feel like it's not worth bothering unless I'm ready to have a nosebleed. Nice and cozy.

I've been out exploring in an Asp over the past few hours, I'm still less than 500ly from the bubble. I was interdicted by an Elite Python, I put my butt to the sun but he got the tether on anyway so I submitted (I was already at zero throttle).

I had plenty of time in supercruise to take some action (I probably could have jumped away but I was scooping a nearly empty tank), and once we were in normal space I did my usual boost, FA off & rotate to face the baddie with guns deployed.

The Python waited probably a good 10 secs before he opened fire, by which time I was nearly out of range (having boosted only once) so again I would pretty easily have been able to escape.

I had a go at him but it was pretty clear I didn't have either the firepower to bring down his shields or tough enough shields myself to get in close (C6 Bi-weave) but with A-rated thrusters & distro I was able to escape at will.

I think this seems like a reasonable compromise, more time to bug out initially, and more time to have a go then realise I'd bitten off more than I could chew & get out of there. Had I been up to the fight (better ship and/or pilot) I probably could have had some fun but I chose the brave sir robin & jumped back to supercruise (as I always do) to see if he would follow. He didn't.


Thoughts? Seems fair enough to me.

 

[Viking84]

Use the tools in *your* hands to make Elite more Dangerous for yourself, instead of demanding the Fdev wrecking ball!

So intentionally handicap ourselves, for no in game purpose or reward, because the AI has been reduced to it's pre 2.1 state of uselessness? No thanks. As seen by all these discussions today, there is only one solution to the AI difficulty that will please everyone, and that is removing the relationship between NPC's spawning, and your Combat Rank or ship. Give the galaxy safe places and dangerous places, make the difference between the low level and high level missions immediately obvious, and give us the tools needed in the galaxy map to navigate at a risk level of our own choosing.

That way the pacifists can stay in safe areas, doing safe things, and getting their zen on, while more combat oriented players can go to dangerous areas and get their kicks against the full glorious power of the pre-nerf AI. Win-win, with absolutely no drawbacks, and the bonus of the galaxy finally getting some character and variation between different areas.

 

[Riverside]

So intentionally handicap ourselves, for no in game purpose or reward, because the AI has been reduced to it's pre 2.1 state of uselessness? No thanks.

Nitek said the other day he'd been using a sidewinder to prove a point, is he just better than you then? Why not at least give it a go?

 

[V'larr]

I've been out exploring in an Asp over the past few hours, I'm still less than 500ly from the bubble. I was interdicted by an Elite Python, I put my butt to the sun but he got the tether on anyway so I submitted (I was already at zero throttle).
I had plenty of time in supercruise to take some action (I probably could have jumped away but I was scooping a nearly empty tank), and once we were in normal space I did my usual boost, FA off & rotate to face the baddie with guns deployed.
The Python waited probably a good 10 secs before he opened fire, by which time I was nearly out of range (having boosted only once) so again I would pretty easily have been able to escape.
I had a go at him but it was pretty clear I didn't have either the firepower to bring down his shields or tough enough shields myself to get in close (C6 Bi-weave) but with A-rated thrusters & distro I was able to escape at will.
I think this seems like a reasonable compromise, more time to bug out initially, and more time to have a go then realise I'd bitten off more than I could chew & get out of there. Had I been up to the fight (better ship and/or pilot) I probably could have had some fun but I chose the brave sir robin & jumped back to supercruise (as I always do) to see if he would follow. He didn't.
Thoughts? Seems fair enough to me.

You decided to try and fight - let alone fight an Elite Python in an Asp - after an exploration trip???
:O Geeze.
I would be panicking and fretting over all the data, weeks of systems I'd likely never be able to wander across again...it actually gives me the chiils. I am so glad when I completed my first Sag A visit, I went straight to Uibuth on the very fringe of inhabited space, no interdictions (though I was loaded for bear just in...case), such a relief when I got the data turned in.

Overall it sounds fair to me too. Scary, but you were awful careful (by the sounds of it, boosting out of range when your shields must have gotten low and so on), and you sensibly decided to bug out after it was clear that was really the only option.

Your data intact, your ego slighted only slightly, some excitement and drama - I like that kind of tale far better than "holy crap I died in 10 seconds what is this I don't even - 6 months of exploration data lost, great, GG".

 

[Riverside]

You decided to try and fight - let alone fight an Elite Python in an Asp - after an exploration trip???
:O Geeze.
I would be panicking and fretting over all the data, weeks of systems I'd likely never be able to wander across again...it actually gives me the chiils. I am so glad when I completed my first Sag A visit, I went straight to Uibuth on the very fringe of inhabited space, no interdictions (though I was loaded for bear just in...case), such a relief when I got the data turned in.

Overall it sounds fair to me too. Scary, but you were awful careful (by the sounds of it, boosting out of range when your shields must have gotten low and so on), and you sensibly decided to bug out after it was clear that was really the only option.

Your data intact, your ego slighted only slightly, some excitement and drama - I like that kind of tale far better than "holy crap I died in 10 seconds what is this I don't even - 6 months of exploration data lost, great, GG".

To be fair I wasn't taking any chances, I have Military Armour too. Poor thing only jumps 25ly

I'm on my way out btw.

 

[Sandmann]

We've gone from numerous threads detailing issues with AI being far too challenging for the majority, to numerous threads from the competitive souls out there claiming it's now been lobotomized (usually based on anecdotal 1-time evidence in RES sites, but I digress).

So, listen:
We can *all* enjoy this game at the same time, regardless of what each of us may want from it.

Nobody needs to, nor should, be excluded - whether they want to be able to just enjoy the combat, or want the combat to be as thrilling and difficult as playing Ultra Nightmare mode in Doom. (I think you're crazy, really, but that is me and my own view and it's perfectly fine if you enjoy yourself that way! So long as it doesn't affect me.)

Frontier is moving back in that direction - that's what this change in 2.1.0.3 is about.

It's safe to assume there will be ways you can reliably find a higher level challenge if that is what you want. Thargoids, "Winter is coming", possible future changes to Powerplay, you name it.

edit: And, I think nobody has anything against harder AI existing in certain locations such as Hazardous Extraction Sites, so long as the "random encounters" (e.g. Pirates or updated-mission attackers) are kept at this new "fair game" level.

In meantime, can we put down the pitchforks and be a whole community?

Additionally in that meantime, let's discuss many ways you *can* make the game harder if you so choose, right now:
- Set your own rules about what happens if you die, see this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...le-For-those-who-want-some-risk-in-their-game!
- Stick to ships that aren't Anaconda-tier
- Intentially limit yourself to sub-par equipment
- Fly FA-off *all* the time (and if you do already, great!)
- Don't RES farm; instead, go wander into a combat zone
- Stick a cargo rack in and stuff it full of gold, then head to a compromised nav beacon
- Join Powerplay (whether it's flawed or not, it WILL give you more & challenging attackers)
- Exclusively look for & attack NPC wings
- Play as a Criminal

And I'll be happy to add any other bright ideas that may pop up in the thread!

TL/DR:
Use the tools in *your* hands to make Elite more Dangerous for yourself, instead of demanding the Fdev wrecking ball!

So, I have to "imagine" they're harder, or wait for yet another AI that you'll cry is too hard to have better than a brain dead AI that I can enjoy combat with? No thanks, how about you learn to shoot or learn to run away instead of demanding "fish in a barrel"?

 

[V'larr]

So intentionally handicap ourselves, for no in game purpose or reward, because the AI has been reduced to it's pre 2.1 state of uselessness? No thanks. As seen by all these discussions today, there is only one solution to the AI difficulty that will please everyone, and that is removing the relationship between NPC's spawning, and your Combat Rank or ship. Give the galaxy safe places and dangerous places, make the difference between the low level and high level missions immediately obvious, and give us the tools needed in the galaxy map to navigate at a risk level of our own choosing.

That way the pacifists can stay in safe areas, doing safe things, and getting their zen on, while more combat oriented players can go to dangerous areas and get their kicks against the full glorious power of the pre-nerf AI. Win-win, with absolutely no drawbacks, and the bonus of the galaxy finally getting some character and variation between different areas.

If what you are after is challenge, then yes.

You need to decide what it is you are after. Rewards or challenges?

It's a challenge to get the rewards in this game. Sometimes it's not a risky challenge as opposed to timely challenge, but a challange nontheless.

Rewards, on the other hand, should never beget a higher challenge. It fails to be a reward at that point, and instead becomes a gate to, well, more challenge.

I don't like, at all, the idea of cutting off swathes of inhabited space because they're "too dangerous" for normal folk. Sorry, I can buy an EVE subscription whenever I want, there's many reasons I don't play it.

Tying it to rank is extremely sensible in the case of random encounter NPCs.

However, you and others *should* deserve a means of finding a higher challenge if you so choose, in a way that doesn't impact all other players. HAZ RES zones, combat zones, Powerplay - some means already exist, as described in this thread; more are to come, and it greatly depends on your own choice as to whether you're after challenge or reward as a primary goal.

We can all have it our way, and all be happy. Just takes a little creativity.

 

[Sandmann]

We can all have it our way, and all be happy. Just takes a little creativity.

How about we have REAL AI's, and you learn how to "fly creatively"?

 

[V'larr]

To be fair I wasn't taking any chances, I have Military Armour too. Poor thing only jumps 25ly
I'm on my way out btw.

Oh, *whew*, I totally read that the wrong way then. My Asp only jumped around 28ly as I recall....

So, I have to "imagine" they're harder, or wait for yet another AI that you'll cry is too hard to have better than a brain dead AI that I can enjoy combat with? No thanks, how about you learn to shoot or learn to run away instead of demanding "fish in a barrel"?

Are you saying you lack imagination?
Why must things all be done for you instead of you doing them yourself?
The AI is nowhere near brainded. It had some braindead *moments* prior to 2.1 that deserved fixing. It's still plenty deadly now.

And no, all I did during the initial 2.1 was run away, and that wasn't fun. A whole entire massive component of Elite Dangerous, cut off from my enjoyment, punishing many who weren't even intending to participate in it - that's a pile of baloney and you ought to know that.

Nobody has been demanding fish in a barrel.

Plenty of people, however, are demanding exclusion and segregation, "Make this game MY way and nobody else's", and refusing to instead think openly and creatively.

I believe you are making the same mistake.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

How about we have REAL AI's, and you learn how to "fly creatively"?

We have a real AI. Must you stray so far into shallow and pedantic territory merely because you've gotten your own knickers in a twist over a problem that, really, doesn't exist?

 

[Sandmann]

Are you saying you lack imagination?

No. Stop trying to change the topic. I'm saying I want non-lobotomised AI.

Why must things all be done for you instead of you doing them yourself?

Why must they be done for YOU? All I want is what was promised.

The AI is nowhere near brainded. It had some braindead *moments* prior to 2.1 that deserved fixing. It's still plenty deadly now.

Well, that explains all the complaints.

And no, all I did during the initial 2.1 was run away, and that wasn't fun. A whole entire massive component of Elite Dangerous, cut off from my enjoyment, punishing many who weren't even intending to participate in it - that's a pile of baloney and you ought to know that.

I'm sorry, which component was that? The "fish in a barrel" one?

Nobody has been demanding fish in a barrel.

That's EXACTLY what they demanded when they wanted the improvement nerfed BACK to fish in a barrel.

Plenty of people, however, are demanding exclusion and segregation, "Make this game MY way and nobody else's", and refusing to instead think openly and creatively.

And you think you're different because...?

I believe you are making the same mistake.

I believe you are. Nyer.

 

[V'larr]

No. Stop trying to change the topic. I'm saying I want non-lobotomised AI.
Why must they be done for YOU? All I want is what was promised.
Well, that explains all the complaints.
I'm sorry, which component was that? The "fish in a barrel" one?
That's EXACTLY what they demanded when they wanted the improvement nerfed BACK to fish in a barrel.
And you think you're different because...?
I believe you are. Nyer.

You are one salty troll. Nonetheless, I will bite.

1. The topic has everything to do with your imagination (or lack thereof), if what you are seeking is challenge. If you truely believe imagination has nothing to do with the perception of challenge, then I truely must worry for your sanity, that or you have sheltered yourself from the wonders offered by the modern gaming world.
2. Promises? What, has David Braben assured you personally that Elite Dangerous would be Dark Souls in space? (I'm waxing too rhetorical here.) The game is made to revolve around what you make it to be. That's the only real promise of Elite Dangerous.
3. All the "complaints" I've seen thus far have involved RES farmers, exclusively using some of the biggest min/maxed combat loadout ships, hunting a single target of negligible ship type or difficulty & instantly judging the entire AI by that encounter. And as I described earlier, I found plenty challenge while doing this same exact activity. So there's plenty reason to be skeptical of these "complaints".
4. Combat. Expecting me to be happy with simply avoiding all combat is foolish and selfish, as is expecting anybody to call that "fun".
5. It wasn't an improvement if the majority of players were unhappy with it. (Read the polls if you don't believe me, they are around here somewhere.) And it's not been nerfed. Must I continue repeating myself? It wasn't fish in a barrel to begin with - it had some bugs that made it easy, yes, but those have been worked out - but then it got pushed to Bruce Lee mode with handheld nukes, then the nukes got taken away, then people expressed that tthe novelty of repeatedly getting punched in the face by Bruce Lee wore off fast, and now we have more of a Jackie Chan. Still plenty fun and challenging if you want it to be.
6. Have you been ignoring this whole entire thread? (Sorry, this is rhetorical too, I *KNOW* you have been ignoring this entire thread, as the answer is right there in the title of it and I'm now repeating several things I've already posted here in this same thread.)

That, I am afraid, is the point where I let myself off the baithook. You may take the suggestions offered here, or pass and continue your way, but please do stop insinuating things that are not true merely because you are not being given your way to the detriment of anybody else who may not like your way.

If you would like to simmer down and be reasonable, then we may have further discussion. I'm afraid this is as far as mildly amusing snarky "didn't-read-anything" posting will take you with me.

 

[Riverside]

Only a few days ago there were a bunch of Cmdrs who needed to 'git gud'. Many of them did (or tried to at least), but many didn't want to in a 'la la la fingers in my ears' kind of way.

Now there's this considerably less condescending opportunity to prove how awesome you are (I took out an Elite Anaconda in a Cobra / pah, I took one out in an Adder / But could you do it in a T7?).

Are you up for it or will you put yourself in the same basket as the ones that didn't want to 'git gud'?

Seems to me you'd relish the challenge. You could probably put videos up & everything

 

[CaptainKremmen]

So intentionally handicap ourselves, for no in game purpose or reward, because the AI has been reduced to it's pre 2.1 state of uselessness? No thanks. As seen by all these discussions today, there is only one solution to the AI difficulty that will please everyone, and that is removing the relationship between NPC's spawning, and your Combat Rank or ship. Give the galaxy safe places and dangerous places, make the difference between the low level and high level missions immediately obvious, and give us the tools needed in the galaxy map to navigate at a risk level of our own choosing.

That way the pacifists can stay in safe areas, doing safe things, and getting their zen on, while more combat oriented players can go to dangerous areas and get their kicks against the full glorious power of the pre-nerf AI. Win-win, with absolutely no drawbacks, and the bonus of the galaxy finally getting some character and variation between different areas.

...and, what's more, there is a well known precedent for this.

I quote,


Planetary governments, or federations, determine the relative safety of their Solar Space. Ranked in decreasing order of safety, the 2040 officially registered worlds of the Galactic Federation can be classified as

• Corporate States
• Democracies
• Confederacies
• Communist States
• Dictatorships
• Multi-Governments
• Feudal Worlds
• Anarchies

CORPORATE STATES

Like ENGEMA and ZAATXE, these are well-ordered worlds, which have usually developed from settlers who practiced a free trade form of competition. Taxation is high on such worlds, but the living standards are high also. Corporate planets with to protect their trade, so goods are expensive, but luxuries are welcomed. Import licences are often necessary.

Engema is an agricultural world, run as a single farming co-operative. Farmers receive a fixed payment for their crops, whether or not the harvest is good, and selling prices do not vary greatly. It is a dependable market, and customer relations are good. Luxuries, machinery and raw materials sell well here.

Zaatxe is an example of a rich, industrial state (Tech level 12). It produces luxury goods, elaborate and innovative machine systems, and specializes in Prototype design. Prices fluctuate depending upon the level of inter-state competition, but it is always a safe bet to buy recently-developed machine items which have not yet spread very far across the galaxy.

DICTATORSHIPS

Dictatorships such as the worlds Lave and Enzaer, are only moderately safe to trade with, but are well worth the risk (provided the trader is well defended and combat trained). Very often pirate attack will not occur because of an agreement between pirate fleets and the world itself. A proportion of all incoming trade is "allowed" to be stolen by pirates, who will then leave the world alone, and protect its shops from aliens or rogue traders. It is an uneasy liaison, which often breaks down.

Lave is an agricultural world, and Enzaer an industrial planet, but a similar principle operates on both surfaces. There are two trading standards, that of the People and that of the Aristocracy. Standards of living are artificially generated, a veneer of progress, and luxury goods, machinery and textiles sell well - usually. The great demand, however, is for basic commodities, especially foodstuffs, clothing and raw materials. These will sell well when the voice of the People has been raised in protest.

ANARCHY PLANETS

A trader can make his biggest profits here and reach his grave the quickest. Worlds like Onisou and Xeesenri have vast wreck-yards in far orbit, the dead places of ships that came to trade honestly, and fell prey to trickery.

These are lawless places, and have usually become so because the original settlers competed too hard when there was too little resource material. Those worlds which survived holocaust did so because of uneasy and bloody alliances between clan families. Pirates and mercenaries were hired for protection and assassination purposes. Anarchic worlds will trade readily in narcotics, slaves, firearms and exotica, and the price will be good... if you get a price at all. These worlds are almost always supplying invisible Masters, usually elite trader/combateers who have turned to crime as the most profitable way of life. Such form loose federations, and trade on the black market extensively throughout the galaxies.

These worlds pay highly for goods they cannot produce themselves, because they know that traders avoid them. Their own products need specialized, illegal outlets: weaponry, narcotics, eavesdropping devices... if it's covert, then anarchic worlds are producing it. Trade in these items and you will get rich quick, or dead quick, or at least become a "Fugitive".




...from a certain game that was released in 1984.

 

[kofeyh]

...from a certain game that was released in 1984.

Honestly, as much as this is how things should work; it would cause a riot. Because it changes how CMDRs interact, and this is typically just unacceptable.

 

[Sandmann]

1. The topic has everything to do with your imagination (or lack thereof), if what you are seeking is challenge. If you truely believe imagination has nothing to do with the perception of challenge, then I truely must worry for your sanity, that or you have sheltered yourself from the wonders offered by the modern gaming world.

I want to play Elite, not Dungeons & Dragons. I want enemies that fight back, not enemies that I -imagine- fight back.

2. Promises? What, has David Braben assured you personally that Elite Dangerous would be Dark Souls in space? (I'm waxing too rhetorical here.) The game is made to revolve around what you make it to be. That's the only real promise of Elite Dangerous.

Read the kickstarter docs.

3. All the "complaints" I've seen thus far have involved RES farmers, exclusively using some of the biggest min/maxed combat loadout ships, hunting a single target of negligible ship type or difficulty & instantly judging the entire AI by that encounter. And as I described earlier, I found plenty challenge while doing this same exact activity. So there's plenty reason to be skeptical of these "complaints".

Either that, or you just want fish in a barrel.

4. Combat. Expecting me to be happy with simply avoiding all combat is foolish and selfish, as is expecting anybody to call that "fun".

Not entirely certain WHAT it is you want. YOU seem to want to have combat, but ONLY combat you are guaranteed to win without trying. That's not combat, that's fish in a barrel.

5. It wasn't an improvement if the majority of players were unhappy with it. (Read the polls if you don't believe me, they are around here somewhere.)

What polls? Do you know "everyone"? I saw some threads from the same people over and over again whining coz they didn't have easy wins.

6. Have you been ignoring this whole entire thread?

Yes. I responded to the OP. Got zero interest in the rest of it. Can only read the same whine so many times before I can feel my IQ being leached out of my head.

Oh, and btw... disagreeing with you coherently doesn't make me a troll, any more than your inability to fight against a real AI makes you incompetent.

 

[Riverside]

A long time ago I played a game called Grand Prix Legends (GPL). In it's day (it was released in 1998) it was widely considered the 'best' racing sim out there.
It wasn't perfect, the tyre model was a bit plasticy & the AI had to cheat but it was the best we had at the time & so me & about 10,000 others played at being 1960's racing drivers (back before seatbelts & sandtraps, when smoking was cool).

I'd practice hotlapping & racing the AI until I could beat them, then I'd choose a slower car & beat them in that too until I could beat the fastest AI car in the slowest car in the game.

So I started racing online, first on the open servers because I didn't know anyone else with the game, and had some good races & some with backward drivers (people would drive the track in the wrong direction to try wreck you). Eventually I made a few friends & was invited to join leagues with organised races on private servers. I eventually won some races, then a championship, and was at one point ranked 65th in the world (depending on how you measured it ).

Now one of the problems with the game was that there were only 7 cars, but they weren't equal. On most tracks the Lotus 49 was the fastest, so naturally most people wanted to drive that. But that meant that (barring mistakes) the race was a foregone conclusion, the fastest driver always won so we had a handicap system to level the playing field.

So that was fine. So far no different from the Golf analogy earlier. But then there were the drivers that always wanted to race a particular car. Ones that got faster but still wanted to race the Lotus say (I was one of those for a while), but also slower drivers that wanted to drive a Honda or a Cooper.

A league I ran for a while tried out several different 'rules of engagement', pretty well all of which were successful & were mostly changed to shake things up a bit. Now this was an old game that came on CD so of course after the first few months when patches were issued the meta never really changed, but we had to come up with handicaps for hundreds of different tracks so we developed a fairly simple system of rules that anyone (if they so wished) could use to level the playing field between any two drivers on any track (more or less, new tracks were released by the community pretty regularly).

Now I'm not that bright, but I managed to handle this concept & it helped to bring the community together. Sure, some people ignored it & the community decided they didn't want to play with them, until they left or learned to play fair. Hotlapping on your own is pretty boring at times, and if you think you're pretty good you want to prove it, on a level playing field.

So some people will always be just better than the rest, and some will never be great no matter how hard they try, but with the handicap system they could always race together & who won the race came down to how many mistakes they made, rather than their basic skillset.

I hop;e this makes sense, sorry for rambling on a bit

 

[Viking84]

Nitek said the other day he'd been using a sidewinder to prove a point, is he just better than you then? Why not at least give it a go?

What was that comment supposed to prove? I suck at combat (and Nitek is most certainly better at it than me), but I want the Elite universe to be a believable place to spend my time. Having NPC's magically spawn based on my own combat rank is not believable, it is in fact pretty much as gamey as you can get it.

Why are you opposed to having the AI spawn based on your chosen location and play style? Surely that would allow anyone, in whatever ship they choose, to adjust the difficulty to their liking. I want places to go that feel dangerous, where I can deliver stolen goods and get assassination contracts, and I want places to go that feel safe, where I can trade legal goods, and get legal haulage missions and go about my business without fearing Elite FDL's. I want the possibility to make an enlightened choice regarding how I play the game, and I want to be able to change my mind from session to session.

Currently the only choice I have is to keep my Combat Rank low, or allow it to increase. I can choose between what I have now, or a future filled with Elite pirates, but I can never go the other way. What is the point of that?