Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

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In that case, longitude would seem to be "arbitary". The only possibility left is a relative longitude difference between sites - and even that's a very large stretch assuming that the guardians attributed zero longitude to a body according to the same rules as stellar forge (but perhaps at an offset).

Exactly. But what I find the most illogical especially with this theory is that it means that the sites had to be in very specific locations and the builders could not choose freely. For a communication network there may have been constraints in the position, e.g. depending on their technology of communication maybe requiring line of sight.

But why on earth would you let some arbitrary calculation with numbers pulled out of the blue dictate your site positions, just to hide hints to the next location?
If you want to point to other locations you put up a sign, if you do not want everyone be able to read that sign you hide it, encode it, keep it secret, whatever .. but all this take the light year distances of the stars (btw, light year is also a completely human made number, there is no good reason Guardians would use the same distance unit, except they are actually from Sol), average them, and if its full moon add something here and there .. and tada, no, a very very very large stretch.
 
Yes, worth a try.
We have three test cases to 'desktop test' the theory against, and if it passes those tests, we can do field study on other candidate planets.
Either we find new sites or we don't - the theory is verified or it isn't.
And then on to next theory (and if you don't believe in the theory, you try something else in the meantime).

Exactly, but what I find scientifically dishonest is to claim in every post that you got it, still the next sentences say that you are unsure about x and y and the average reader does not even get near to what is now needed to verify or disprove your theory (and a shame you didn't do that just simply yourself).

If you have just some assumptions and want people to get thinking on these or you need guinea pigs to test/verify your assumptions: frame it like that.
Sorry, but this is a quacksalver's approach, not a scientific one.
 
The longitude measurement on a planet is based on an arbitrary prime meridian.
It doesn't have to be arbitrary.

I mentioned (pages back) that if a body is tidally locked you could logically select that position as 0' longitude, and got this reply..
Actually that is something we do today. The Moon's prime meridian points directly at Earth, Titan's at Saturn, and Pluto and Charon at each other. However, one tidally locked body I travelled to in order to check this out in game didn't follow suit, so I think FDev dropped a bit of a scientific clanger there

WRT..
Unless you can propose why the Guardians would use exactly the same zero longitude as the one we see in game then it canot be predicted.
I tend to agree here. On one hand, this is a game, and this is a puzzle set by humans for humans so Frontier might have buried clues in the ruins which relate to human values of lat/long etc.

However, I think this is unlikely, personally, which is why I had this thought:
One thought.. on a tidally locked body it might "make sense" (to the guardians) to place their equivalent of the 0 longitude line at the point which is always facing the parent body. So.. would it be worth measuring the human longitude value for this point, and taking the difference between this and the site longitude. If we do this for each site, and they come out to the same value that would be pretty sweet.

I don't have the time in-game to check this theory, and would be grateful to anyone who took the time.

Edit: Yes, sorry, I am lagging the thread a touch..
 
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We have three test cases to 'desktop test' the theory against, and if it passes those tests, we can do field study on other candidate planets.
Either we find new sites or we don't - the theory is verified or it isn't.

Trouble is I still have to scroll past it (and ten odd people quoting it) every single page when they've never been correct not even once. Then when it's wrong it'll be adjusted slightly and we'll go around this all again for another 20 odd pages.

We went through a lot of this in the Rift thread too and we had to learn to get people to test their own theories then spam people with them once they had a positive result rather than just as they came to mind.
 
well at least with 2.3 we can have a small crew, a main ship with 2 fighters to help us cover more ground (and other volunteers perhaps) it should make needleised haystack searching for ruins and crashed ships etc much easier
 
some of the high up cannon peeps i think started copying the formidine descriptors of the stuff, so instead of alien ruins 1,2,3 its alpha, beta and it should be centauri next but whos counting

The Canonn does not have an official nomenclature; what people what to call each site is up to them. For some reason people do like to use the Greek alphabet for this sort of thing, and since it's used for the traditional naming of stars within constellations there is a sort of relevant precedent. If you want to follow the Greek alphabet then the order is alpha, beta, gamma, delta.
 
I would also appreciate some kind of scientific probe. Multiple levels, limited ammo. But if you could launch it to set coordinates on landable planets and have a large area scoured for anomalies and POIs.

Or some kind of piloted survey craft with precise sensors to monitor the ground.
 
It doesn't have to be arbitrary.

I mentioned (pages back) that if a body is tidally locked you could logically select that position as 0' longitude, and got this reply..


WRT..

I tend to agree here. On one hand, this is a game, and this is a puzzle set by humans for humans so Frontier might have buried clues in the ruins which relate to human values of lat/long etc.

However, I think this is unlikely, personally, which is why I had this thought:


I don't have the time in-game to check this theory, and would be grateful to anyone who took the time.

Edit: Yes, sorry, I am lagging the thread a touch..

The ruins planets are not tidally locked.
The game doesn't set the zero meridian on tidally locked bodies to the meridian facing the parent body.
 
The Canonn does not have an official nomenclature; what people what to call each site is up to them. For some reason people do like to use the Greek alphabet for this sort of thing, and since it's used for the traditional naming of stars within constellations there is a sort of relevant precedent. If you want to follow the Greek alphabet then the order is alpha, beta, gamma, delta.

high ups perhaps i was referring to active particpants rather than ordained officers or officals, perhaps ram tah will name these sites as they are discovered with his own tagging mechanism, that could be something frontier storyline writers could look at doing for sure. One random suggestion G1, G2, G3 (guardian 1, 2, 3 etc)

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I would also appreciate some kind of scientific probe. Multiple levels, limited ammo. But if you could launch it to set coordinates on landable planets and have a large area scoured for anomalies and POIs.

Or some kind of piloted survey craft with precise sensors to monitor the ground.

this is a great idea perhaps frontier might consider it for 2.4..... If we are lucky

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The ruins planets are not tidally locked.
The game doesn't set the zero meridian on tidally locked bodies to the meridian facing the parent body.


so tidal locks so far havent been an issue or a consideration. Guess we will see what the future sites hold
 
How about they told me so.

http://i.imgur.com/zG07V46.png

now, to be clear with this, this Ticket was about the Ram tah missions. but I'm not gonna say anything else than just show the answer.
its clear that this is not something that they wanted.

I think you should post your bug report because this response makes no sense to me given what I know of the workings of the ruins. Without the context I can't judge what Asterix means.

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yes and this is what they answer to me "What I was replying to was the fact that you could cash the mission in and re-take it" its not an intended feature. I asked them about the fact that you are able to handle the missions whenever you want, anytime, and get the reward every time. and then repeat this process.

This is consider as an exploit, and I'm not gonna go too far into this.

How does that have anything to do with "manipulating instances"?
 
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Something to note:
When the game says that a stellar body is "Tidally Locked". It does not mean its 100% locked. For example Synuefe XO-P C22-17 AB 3 A has an orbital period 4.0D, but rotational period 4.1D, which means that the moon will make his full rotation in regards to its parent planet every 40 days...

EDIT: Sorry. not 40 days, but 40 cycles - 160 days

So placing 0 meridian at tidally locked planets may be even more complicated than you think...
 
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If zero mattered, sure. The system can be different but if the data is relative to another point, the measurement can be done any metric.

As far as I can tell from a brief skim read, the theory isn't based on geometric shapes which might be coordinate-system-agnostic, it's based on adding up distances and dividing by factors to obtain coordinates. If I have it right then for longitude the chosen prime meridian does matter.

Another aspect I don't find convincing is star movement. Systems in the ED implementation do not move; their coordinates are fixed. Not only can we not observe system movement in game but the game doesn't even provide data on what that movement would be if it were there. So trying to use that as an explanation for discrepancies isn't reasonable, IMHO.
 
I think you should post your bug report because this response makes no sense to me given what I know of the workings of the ruins. Without the context I can't judge what Asterix means.

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How does that have anything to do with "manipulating instances"?

The fact that you are taking the mission, then doing the thing at the Ruins, earn credits, and heading back to the station, get the credits, then switching Ship/instance to get the missions again ! Which is an exploit, the bug is that you can take the missions again from Zero ! and do it again and etc.. I think that the real behavior is the fact that if you drop the missions, if you take it again you take it from where you start.
 
I think you should post your bug report because this response makes no sense to me given what I know of the workings of the ruins. Without the context I can't judge what Asterix means.

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How does that have anything to do with "manipulating instances"?

It has nothing to do with manipulation, but has everything to do with lazy untested content
 
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