Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn
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Ian Phillips
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I'll head out to 'blae eork qu-d d13-3' to do a scout for more site in the area.
I opened galmap, aligned Skaudai and the new Blae Eork Guardian site systems vertically on the left, got out my trusty plastic ruler, measured the separation and then measured half that distance from the midpoint out FRiftwards. It lies almost exactly over Elephant Trunk neb. Not sure about the logic, but if any nebula is worth looking at I would suggest ET rather than H&S
Is that an imperial or metric ruler ? Something seems a miss, here's a galmap image with Skaudai, Blae and bubble shown plus the rough center of Elephant's trunk and an Eofots system roughly midway between H&S.
To properly position the blob of original ruins in the center of the triangle that Eaofts system should be about 2K LY east and a few hundred south. Becomes a series of questions: is there really a triangle and if so which is more important, triangular perfection or nearest nebula.
The nice thing is the search area is so huge once you're off by a few hundred LY a couple 1000 more doesn't really matter.
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Is that an imperial or metric ruler ? Something seems a miss, here's a galmap image with Skaudai, Blae and bubble shown plus the rough center of Elephant's trunk and an Eofots system roughly midway between H&S.
To properly position the blob of original ruins in the center of the triangle that Eaofts system should be about 2K LY east and a few hundred south. Becomes a series of questions: is there really a triangle and if so which is more important, triangular perfection or nearest nebula.
The nice thing is the search area is so huge once you're off by a few hundred LY a couple 1000 more doesn't really matter.
It would not surprice me if there is a ruin system in the exact third corner of an equilateral triangle.
Guardians don't do aproximate triangles.
Pretty sure these bases belong to exiled Guardians, that they survived whatever killed the others and that the Dynasty folks are trying to copy their escape.
Whatever killed the Guardians is coming back to the bubble.
Whatever killed the Guardians is coming back to the bubble.
If they're coming back via Blae Eork QU-D d13-3 then they're quite badly lost
If they're coming back via Blae Eork QU-D d13-3 then they're quite badly lost
They aren't. Those are 'safe' regions.
What a brill find. I know others did a 'deep' search around skaudai am-b d14-138 and didn't find anything so presuming they didn't miss anything could BLAE EORK and SKAUDAI be outposts llike human astroid stations?
The fact that all three structure types are there and the proximity to there nebular is intresting. Just a through...
The fact that all three structure types are there and the proximity to there nebular is intresting. Just a through...
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So I decided to have a go at guessing the coordinates of a proper 3rd vertex. It's some what complicated that there's actually an infinite number of answers since we only know 2 points, but if we treat the blob as a centroid which defines the plane of the triangle then it's possible to get fairly close to an answer if not the answer.
The coordinates for Skaudai and Blae vertices are: -5477.594, 504.156, 10436.25 and 8602.75, -219.813, 2641.938 respectively. The elevation of the center point on the Skaudai-Blae line is 142, the elevation (and they don't vary much in elevation) of a random selection of blob ruins is around -120 so the elevation decreased by about 260 from the middle of the Skaudai-Blae line to the centroid so the 3rd vertex would have an elevation of around -380 (-120 - 260).
Now it can be reduced to a more comfortable 2D problem, particularly since the delta in the elevation axis is so tiny compared to the other two. From there you get coordinates something like -5200, -5600, -380.
That's a bit too much fudging to generate a high confidence level target system but I'll leave you with this. If you enter the coordinates below into this online calculator:
That coordinate triplet creates an equilateral triangle that's accurate to a few 10s of arc seconds (1s of LY at these distances) and you arrive at Chi Persei Sector DQ-V C3-1 which is very close to the Soul Nebula, a bit down and to the south.
The two bookmarks in the bottom right are the center of the H&S nebular pair and that Chi Persei system.
That's not to imply there's anything interesting about that specific system but the Soul Nebula is very close to where a proper 3rd vertex would be in an equilateral triangle. If you treat the blob/bubble as a centroid you can create a triangle but it won't be equilateral. To my mind the combination of equilateral and obvious nebula wins over the blob being a proper centroid. For the triangle described by those coordinates the proper centroid is roughly where that Bleae Thua UQ-R book mark is.
There are in fact an infinite number of solutions by varying the elevation which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do in my opinion since -380 was derived by treating the blob as a centroid but it can't be if this is an equilateral triangle. Interestingly enough the higher in elevation you go (Soul nebula is around 120) the closer to the nebula you get pulled since you're sweeping an arc up and into the nebula.
And now I need a beer, my head hurts.
The coordinates for Skaudai and Blae vertices are: -5477.594, 504.156, 10436.25 and 8602.75, -219.813, 2641.938 respectively. The elevation of the center point on the Skaudai-Blae line is 142, the elevation (and they don't vary much in elevation) of a random selection of blob ruins is around -120 so the elevation decreased by about 260 from the middle of the Skaudai-Blae line to the centroid so the 3rd vertex would have an elevation of around -380 (-120 - 260).
Now it can be reduced to a more comfortable 2D problem, particularly since the delta in the elevation axis is so tiny compared to the other two. From there you get coordinates something like -5200, -5600, -380.
That's a bit too much fudging to generate a high confidence level target system but I'll leave you with this. If you enter the coordinates below into this online calculator:
That coordinate triplet creates an equilateral triangle that's accurate to a few 10s of arc seconds (1s of LY at these distances) and you arrive at Chi Persei Sector DQ-V C3-1 which is very close to the Soul Nebula, a bit down and to the south.
The two bookmarks in the bottom right are the center of the H&S nebular pair and that Chi Persei system.
That's not to imply there's anything interesting about that specific system but the Soul Nebula is very close to where a proper 3rd vertex would be in an equilateral triangle. If you treat the blob/bubble as a centroid you can create a triangle but it won't be equilateral. To my mind the combination of equilateral and obvious nebula wins over the blob being a proper centroid. For the triangle described by those coordinates the proper centroid is roughly where that Bleae Thua UQ-R book mark is.
There are in fact an infinite number of solutions by varying the elevation which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do in my opinion since -380 was derived by treating the blob as a centroid but it can't be if this is an equilateral triangle. Interestingly enough the higher in elevation you go (Soul nebula is around 120) the closer to the nebula you get pulled since you're sweeping an arc up and into the nebula.
And now I need a beer, my head hurts.
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Thank you. If you have any particular suggestions please feel free to supply them via our issues tracker
https://github.com/canonn-science/RuinsComboMap/issues
o7
Is that an imperial or metric ruler ? Something seems a miss, here's a galmap image with Skaudai, Blae and bubble shown plus the rough center of Elephant's trunk and an Eofots system roughly midway between H&S.
To properly position the blob of original ruins in the center of the triangle that Eaofts system should be about 2K LY east and a few hundred south. Becomes a series of questions: is there really a triangle and if so which is more important, triangular perfection or nearest nebula.
The nice thing is the search area is so huge once you're off by a few hundred LY a couple 1000 more doesn't really matter.
Being a true Brit it was both! Though I wonder how long before the Brexiteers start to call for the metric system to be dropped....
yes, I see where you're you're going and it is an attractive hypothesis to have an equilateral triangle with the Guardian sites near the centroid, but with all the traffic through H&S area surprised anything there hasn't been found.
I was assuming perhaps a square (with a fourth site yet to be found), though that ignores current Guardian bubble as the centroid. It might be any geometrical relationship but the guardian logs mention an interest in geometry so worth pursuing. Drew's (or MB's?) comment about nebulae being good for hiding things often comes to mind-we've not yet found anything hidden in a nebula have we? (I don't think barnacles are hidden per se so I discount them)
Certainly a wake-up call that it's worth checking systems for ruins outside the 'normal' area - I've started checking whenever I see suitable candidates.
Heading out to the new site to try and see if I can find others nearby, though as I failed to find any sites in the original bubble confidence is not high. Should get me elite explorer though
Edit: 6k out of the bubble and I realised this is the only ship I forgot to apply the Canonn decals to - I am such a disgrace to the Canonn
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Out of rep, but this matches well with the quick calculations I did on this.
The two known locations seem to be on the edge of the nebula, so I guess the bottom south edge of Soul is a good place to look.
Just wondering if the front page will be updated with the new Guardian sites locations ?
A lot of the Guardians stuff is a bit out of date, it will be handy to have information on the front page regarding the new site areas and ideas where is a good place to go looking. At the moment there is some good stuff buried within this thread
A lot of the Guardians stuff is a bit out of date, it will be handy to have information on the front page regarding the new site areas and ideas where is a good place to go looking. At the moment there is some good stuff buried within this thread
The most current information is on the FP - hidden in the Canonn Ruins Report Form link. It doesn't contain the most recent finds as the CMDR doesn't appear to have added them (they were heading away by the time we pointed out how to report so not their fault). If it doesn't get added by the time I get there then I will add myself (with appropriate attribution). You could PM Ian Phillips with info you want changing on the FP if you are keen
Personally I would strip most of the ruins out of the FP and change the link have to 'Canonn Ruins' or somesuch - but as no-one looks at the FP there seems little point
This is new.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...gmate_found_this_after_a_random_base_assault/
About the FP:
I agree that the most current infos are on the fp, but I think that a cleanup is needed: all those outdated ruins can be deleted I think, leaving just the link.
If Ian Phillips can transfer the front posts to me again , I can do the cleaning job...
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...gmate_found_this_after_a_random_base_assault/
About the FP:
I agree that the most current infos are on the fp, but I think that a cleanup is needed: all those outdated ruins can be deleted I think, leaving just the link.
If Ian Phillips can transfer the front posts to me again , I can do the cleaning job...
If Ian Phillips can transfer the front posts to me again , I can do the cleaning job...
He's baaaaaack! (Welcome home
)This is new.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...gmate_found_this_after_a_random_base_assault/
About the FP:
I agree that the most current infos are on the fp, but I think that a cleanup is needed: all those outdated ruins can be deleted I think, leaving just the link.
If Ian Phillips can transfer the front posts to me again , I can do the cleaning job...
Welcome back Rizal!
no, it's difficult to read that screenshot on my ipad, but the message about the "corporation having proof of aliens" with the "what's that in the distance, never seen a ship like that before" at the end of the message has been out for a few months now. Never mind- you just need to read about 1000 pages or so to catch up!
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I just wanted to make a comment on aliens.
What is alien life:
See the Bubble as an organism of itself. Any alien life we encounter is a separate and fully evolved multilayer bubble of life. Humans can not survive without the full spectrum of life in the entire bubble. It is one system, and it is all interdependent. The Bubble is "sentient", it tries to preserve its own life and tries to expand its borders. It has internal security to root out "cancers" and it evolves over time. It makes very complex decisions and enables for massive community goals to be conducted that influence the universe around it. It is alive, sentient and dominant.
So, if Aliens would look for "aliens" and would find one of our rear end bacteria (a cargo pod with biowaste), they would have found proof of the "bubble" as well. They would treat the find as a potential alien "Bubble" and not as a small insignificant organism. A possible threat, but yet so tasty for curiosity.
The same goes the other way around: If we find a piece of poo that is alien, we have found the proof of concept that we are not alone in the universe. We also realize a potential hostile Bubble entity out there, in whatever form it may take ( it may be completely different type of life and structure compared to our own Bubble, different travel technology, different connection and communication technology, maybe even not depending on technology at all, but highly efficient organic evolved tissue and magic(too us) phenomena. ).
So all we have to do to find alien life is to find anything that is completely separate from our own type of life. That requires microbiology sensors on our ships. I say we need an update to the Exploration modules soon.
The problem with finding life that is so different from our own, is that it may be totally invisible for our eyes, unless we open our minds and realize that life can be totally different than our own imagination allows.
It may not require water, it may not require electricity. I may not be in our own scale at all. It may be so huge it is beyond our visible range of the universe, or so small its lifetime is so fast it dies before we can ever discover it.
To look by rules of self is a road that narrows too quickly.
We could have bubbles that use the same resources, and thus are hostile in environment to each other, unable to live in symbiosis. But we could also have bubbles that live off of completely different resources from each other, even producing waste that is valuable to each other, making perfect symbiosis. Depending on what type it is, we get different kind of relations to these forms of life.
It may be so that the alien life is so way beyond us, that their interest is completely different from our interests, making interaction null and void, not by curiosity but by rules of nature. Giants do not interact with ants, not because they are not curious, but because they are completely incompatible to interconnect and communicate anything worth while. And vice versa.
Etheric life, life within electromagnetic phenomena itself, may interact with us, but the physical and practical application of such may be useless to both. Also, this form of life, which can be residing as virtual patterns and structures within the background radiation, may or may not be impossible to detect. The threat of such life could however be monumental, because it could alter our minds and control our mentality. It could even literally be the essence of our souls for real. Ever wondered about why you look at the universe through your eyes, and not through anyone else's...... is your body a prison for your soul?
Life that have created us in their universe as totally virtual simulations, may never be detected nor proven. Yet they could have total control over us and our fates. As we could have control over any simulated universes of our own. That is also a form of separated life.
A macroscopic lifeform could be so huge, that our universe is just an atom in their scope. Meaning we can never communicate with them efficiently and they can never communicate with us, because time goes to fast in our scope. In the opposite spectrum, sentient life in our own atoms would live so fast they would evolve, prosper, spread, be dead and extinct before we can even blink. Unable to confront any such lifeforms, but still realize that they could be there, in an infinite universe where scale and scope is the interdimensional parallell universes that physics predict. All interconnected in plain sight.
The very laws of nature could change over scale and scope, allowing for any form of universes ever imagined, where the only scale we humans can and will exist in is in our own scope (but it is endless vast on that scale). Anything in our own scale abides the same laws of nature and structures accordingly, but stray into macro or micro cosmos and you find that nature changes the laws to produce all these infinite universes and realities that is our existence. Maybe life as we know it, can only exist on this scale. Laws of nature could be, and probably is, too different in other scales to harbor any form of life.
If we could travel through the scopes and scales, we would open up all these parallell universes for us to explore, leaving our own scope and scale to oblivion, but allowing for new ones to be experienced.
If our universe is a scale and scope of an atom in a macro cosmos, think how vast our universe then becomes, when compared to our atoms and the distances in our own galaxy alone.
What is alien life:
See the Bubble as an organism of itself. Any alien life we encounter is a separate and fully evolved multilayer bubble of life. Humans can not survive without the full spectrum of life in the entire bubble. It is one system, and it is all interdependent. The Bubble is "sentient", it tries to preserve its own life and tries to expand its borders. It has internal security to root out "cancers" and it evolves over time. It makes very complex decisions and enables for massive community goals to be conducted that influence the universe around it. It is alive, sentient and dominant.
So, if Aliens would look for "aliens" and would find one of our rear end bacteria (a cargo pod with biowaste), they would have found proof of the "bubble" as well. They would treat the find as a potential alien "Bubble" and not as a small insignificant organism. A possible threat, but yet so tasty for curiosity.
The same goes the other way around: If we find a piece of poo that is alien, we have found the proof of concept that we are not alone in the universe. We also realize a potential hostile Bubble entity out there, in whatever form it may take ( it may be completely different type of life and structure compared to our own Bubble, different travel technology, different connection and communication technology, maybe even not depending on technology at all, but highly efficient organic evolved tissue and magic(too us) phenomena. ).
So all we have to do to find alien life is to find anything that is completely separate from our own type of life. That requires microbiology sensors on our ships. I say we need an update to the Exploration modules soon.
The problem with finding life that is so different from our own, is that it may be totally invisible for our eyes, unless we open our minds and realize that life can be totally different than our own imagination allows.
It may not require water, it may not require electricity. I may not be in our own scale at all. It may be so huge it is beyond our visible range of the universe, or so small its lifetime is so fast it dies before we can ever discover it.
To look by rules of self is a road that narrows too quickly.
We could have bubbles that use the same resources, and thus are hostile in environment to each other, unable to live in symbiosis. But we could also have bubbles that live off of completely different resources from each other, even producing waste that is valuable to each other, making perfect symbiosis. Depending on what type it is, we get different kind of relations to these forms of life.
It may be so that the alien life is so way beyond us, that their interest is completely different from our interests, making interaction null and void, not by curiosity but by rules of nature. Giants do not interact with ants, not because they are not curious, but because they are completely incompatible to interconnect and communicate anything worth while. And vice versa.
Etheric life, life within electromagnetic phenomena itself, may interact with us, but the physical and practical application of such may be useless to both. Also, this form of life, which can be residing as virtual patterns and structures within the background radiation, may or may not be impossible to detect. The threat of such life could however be monumental, because it could alter our minds and control our mentality. It could even literally be the essence of our souls for real. Ever wondered about why you look at the universe through your eyes, and not through anyone else's...... is your body a prison for your soul?
Life that have created us in their universe as totally virtual simulations, may never be detected nor proven. Yet they could have total control over us and our fates. As we could have control over any simulated universes of our own. That is also a form of separated life.
A macroscopic lifeform could be so huge, that our universe is just an atom in their scope. Meaning we can never communicate with them efficiently and they can never communicate with us, because time goes to fast in our scope. In the opposite spectrum, sentient life in our own atoms would live so fast they would evolve, prosper, spread, be dead and extinct before we can even blink. Unable to confront any such lifeforms, but still realize that they could be there, in an infinite universe where scale and scope is the interdimensional parallell universes that physics predict. All interconnected in plain sight.
The very laws of nature could change over scale and scope, allowing for any form of universes ever imagined, where the only scale we humans can and will exist in is in our own scope (but it is endless vast on that scale). Anything in our own scale abides the same laws of nature and structures accordingly, but stray into macro or micro cosmos and you find that nature changes the laws to produce all these infinite universes and realities that is our existence. Maybe life as we know it, can only exist on this scale. Laws of nature could be, and probably is, too different in other scales to harbor any form of life.
If we could travel through the scopes and scales, we would open up all these parallell universes for us to explore, leaving our own scope and scale to oblivion, but allowing for new ones to be experienced.
If our universe is a scale and scope of an atom in a macro cosmos, think how vast our universe then becomes, when compared to our atoms and the distances in our own galaxy alone.
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