alien night sky- alien culture discussion

[Calaban]

Here on Earth, our night sky was looked at and wondered about by the ancient peoples. From the patterns and shapes, and nebula visible, as well as the Milky Way- many myths and legends were formed. In a sense; our night sky sparked ideas, cultural notions, and basic archetypes that stick with us today (orion and his sword[of many names]- being a man and a warrior pattern up there).

The night sky, such as it was, shaped us into who we are. So imagine an alien world, with their own primitives, and a very different night sky... what legends would they attribute to it? What cultural notions would emerge from this arrangement of the night sky?

Spoiler

This is the culture/myth building exercise; step out of Our familiar frame of reference [paradigm], and strive to envision an alien perspective.. with nice views. Think of it as Social Studies from school- but rather Xeno Studies.

Already I can see a fire and ice creation myth... as well as the symbol of a hammer being important to these people. But what would they make of the milky way?

Would they be a more peaceful culture? More warlike? What would having a daylike starfield mean about day/night cycles? Would they even sleep like us?

What else do you think they would be like, in a different way, looking up into this particular alien sky?

[this is the kind of thinking that gets my interest and imagination going- hopefully there are others that feel the same]


Night sky #2: what nightmares and paranoid delusions do you think they have on this world, seeing this Evil Eye, that Uncaring Ghost, those Black Holes in space rising slowly over the horizon... [shudder]

Spoiler

 

[Slippery Jim DiGriz]

This is the culture/myth building exercise; step out of Our familiar frame of reference [paradigm], and strive to envision an alien perspective.. with nice views. Think of it as Social Studies from school- but rather Xeno Studies.

When we can with confidence understand the mind of our closest relatives (bonobos and chimpanzees) and the different but possibly equally high intelligences of cetaceans we might be able to start thinking about how aliens think, until then - not a chance. A nice avenue for science fiction but that's all.

As for constellations, they are another manifestation of pareidolia while probably not a unique human attribute, it seems logical to assume different species will experience it differently. Further towards the galactic hub the night sky would be a lot busier than out here in the suburbs, in some areas it'd be so dense it'd be hard to distinguish individual stars, further out than we are the apparent star density would be far lower, near the edge it would be interesting with almost no stars when looking away from the hub and most of the milky way visible in the other direction. The constellations are very cultural things with on earth dozens of different systems from various cultures around the world but it is interesting to note that most cultures invented stories based on the stars, probably partly to help the memorising process because you really need to know your way around the night sky if you wanted to do any navigation in the days before compasses let alone maps and sextants. So if an alien race were inherently skilled at navigation would they bother to even notice any constellations?

And all that is before you start thinking about methodology of perception, our visible light range is quite limited, an alien would almost certainly have a different spectrum so they'd see things differently from us, that's assuming they "see" with light, echolocation is not uncommon here but an alien creature could use radio frequencies or magnetism or anything you could imagine, perception of environment by visible light is far from a given.

 

[Cody]

Can't help but think of Asimov's Nightfall - an interesting tale!

 

[Calaban]

How to think like an alien [rather than just overstate the unwillingness to try]:

(#2) During intellectual development the primitives on that world began to notice the formation in the sky (the burning eye) appeared a lot like the part of their own bodies that was used for sight [in their hand-analogs; but thats not the point]. They began to referring it to "the Evil Eye". Evil because it was burning much like the newly mastered use of fire- which did a bad thing to the physiology of their [methane based] lifeform, but was essential in "cooking" the chemicals needed for high octane "food".

As culture and mythos developed, the Evil Eye became the center of organized religion. Its rise and movement in the sky (caused by seasonal/orbital/precessional drift) was carefully mapped, and pyramid-analogs were build in its honor- positioned so they Eye would rise looking over [or through] key monuments at seasonal times- key for planting and agriculture. Thus the Eye became central to civilized development- for good and ill in times to come... [now someone else add to this]

 

[AsukaZ]

Night sky #2

Well that thing in the sky looks a little like an anus. So perhaps they might develop a creation myth of how their world was literally expelled from paradise ... "That's God's body up there, and see there ? That's where we came out".

 

[Calaban]

[facepalm]

well.. fair enough.

But then we each see what we want to see, eh? Maybe its the same for them.

 

[AsukaZ]

I think it would be. I think when they look up what they see can only be a reflection of what they're already familiar with.
OK maybe anus is a bit much, (although human beings have come up with stranger ideas) perhaps then a birth canal, or ovipositor, or whatever opening they have to produce offspring.

 

[Calaban]

So then, this world is the Egg of the creator to them. The people walking upon the Egg of Creation could be seen as servants? antibodies? effluvia?

would they admire it? or shun it in distaste/disgust?

on the opposite side of their night sky is the milky way.. what would they make of that? white band out one way- but giant red.. thing the other way.. the world in the middle. interesting.

How much more "troubled" would such a society be?

Rename this project to Xeno Archaeology... figuring out the past of an alien race.

Or Transplanted Homo-Xeno Archaeology- like if the human Mayans were abuducted and taken here to develop anew... very much Us mentally and physically, worshiping the stars still, but under alien skies.

we may proceed as desired by other contributing posters

 

[AsukaZ]

I came up with this (rather depressing) story. I hope it is within the spirit of your intentions for this thread.

A tale of two cultures.


One group looks up and sees an anus. They create the story that they have been rejected and/or punished by their creator for some transgression whilst residing in paradise. They see the milky way on the opposing side of space as the hell they are destined for. However as they are currently in transition between the two they believe there is still time for them to repent. The central star is their salvation, an angel who watches them, notes their behaviour and reports back to the creator those who prove themselves worthy of returning to paradise.


The rulers of this group promote this idea as it allows them to dictate the path to return to grace. It provides a powerful incentive for their followers to follow the rules they have set down. They create a powerful hegemony with power and privilege far beyond those of the ordinary 'people'.


On another continent,another group looks up and sees a birth canal. They believe they are the nascent children of god. They see the milky way as their ultimate destination, symbolic of the the full realisation of their god-like potential. The star is their shepherd, and their messenger.


This group has no leaders, since they believe all are equal as each individual contains a divine spark, no one individual can rise above any other. They form an anarchic collective where decisions are made through consensus.


Later these two cultures meet, and find their cultures incompatible. The second group proselytise among the first group, and win some converts. The leaders of the first group find this a threat to their rule and declare war against them. After a long and protracted campaign, the first group wins due to their better organisation and the unquestioning devotion of their followers. However as a result their world is so poisoned from their weapons they are no longer able to reproduce. The entire species goes extinct.

 

[Calaban]

ok, thats interesting, but lets back it up a bit- all of this, including the war between nations, happened in the bronze age- akin to Egypt at war with Byzantine.

As such no harm can come to the world as yet, different ideologies squabbled and are mere scratches in the dirt.

The First party will be named "The Refuse"... oddly believing their world is excrement- bound for some dismal fate- these are Emo-like people, who started off seeing the universe as Excrement, and honestly cannot see it any other way, but rather than end their misery, they chose to share their misery to all. To MAKE everyone else believe what they do. [so- bad guys]

The other group will be named "The Kindred"- believing they are the children of a greater power. They were a bit naive in trusting in the goodwill of others, and suffered for it. While their dominance upon the world was brutally torn down, they are not completely gone. Hidden sects and cults still linger, and have a popular understanding with the populace in general.

A new Group of my making shall be called "The Witnessed"- believing that it is an Eyeball, and the other groups have their minds below the belt a bit too much ( ). This group feels that they are being watched... and judged, in everything that they do. This group strives to do whatever it is they think the Eye wants them to do... but it is damnably vague exactly what that is. Some think it is to oppose the Refuse, some think the Witnessed is supposed to be the Only Way .. others think- honestly- that they are here to entertain the Observer in the sky- to act as ludicrous and ridiculous as publicly possible. No one knows for sure, so they get all up in everybody's business.


quite the mess this night sky brought to this world so far. How shall it continue?

 

[EAGLE 5]

An interesting question that no doubt can spawn a million different answers which are as varied and fantastic as the potential beings that they describe. This is also, however, what I would call a bit of a loaded question that bases itself on the assumption that other "alien" beings are similar to us in that they are capable of feelings of wonder, fear, curiosity and along with those have the capacity to display a variety of emotions. For the sake of relevancy let's pretend this a Thargoid world and that we are dealing with their specific culture.

What we do know about them is that they are an insectoid race that behaves similarly to most insect species on Earth. Biologically they are born from a queen which are relatively rare and spend most of their life in the support of the colony as drones doing whatever work is necessary to grow and protect it. With species like these, life is more of a process that works like clockwork with very little time for leisure and or artistic expression, as such I doubt that much thought is placed on space and remote environments other than in the context of colony expansion/defense.

In short, unless we are dealing with a parallel human colony somehow miraculously developing in a remote system it is near impossible to predict what thoughts are given by aliens to space and their galactic neighborhood thus we can honestly say that we have ourselves, and other animal behavior we can base our speculation on but not much else.

 

[AsukaZ]

As far as this developing story goes, I'm making the assumption these beings are in fact transplanted humans, or at least aliens with very similar thought processes to humans.
It's not possible to think in ways we don't think (if that makes sense !)

The first group (the Refuse) I see mostly as victims, having their superstitions and death-terror being manipulated by their leaders for their own ends, but I digress.

Assuming they didn't wipe themselves out ...

After the first major conflict is over, a fourth group emerges, a secret society who reject all the meta-physical interpretations of the night sky, believing it instead to be merely physical objects similar to the world on which they live. This group prizes reason over superstition, and have covertly infiltrated themselves amongst the leaders of the refuse and the witnessed, attempting to nudge them in a certain direction. They possibly view the remnants of the Kindred as harmless but misguided, and so leave them mostly alone. This group could possibly call themselves 'The Enlightened"

Over time the power and influence of the refuse grows. They believe they are 'saving' their brothers from their heretical religions, by showing them the only true path to their salvation, by force if necessary. Other groups are forced underground. The witnessed survive in secret, one faction become street performers and jesters, allowing them to practice the tenets of their faith in open. As a consequence in some regions all forms of entertainment are banned. Other factions become historians, recording events as a tribute to 'the eye'.

Further along in time the refuse itself begins to fracture, competing ideologies and the excesses of some of the leaders cause schisms within the dominant faith, more wars erupt ...

I could go on but I'd really just be echoing human history .. It would take a better mind than mind to come up with a truly unique history of an alien species.
Anyway whatever you're doing, writing a book or whatever, I hope I was of some help.

 

[Flyto]

I've sometimes wondered how the course of our scientific progress might have been different if there had been a neutron star in our system. With an obviously relativistic object nearby, would people have come up with those ideas sooner?

 

[Calaban]

This is just a thought experiment- starting with this, interplaying with that- seeing where it may take us.

In a way its the Oldest Game- "Make Believe" among multiple players.


So- back to it.

Something fundamentally different between them and us is that we see space as generally empty all around us, they definitely do NOT. To them, there is a That thing, some empty space, and a distant other thing (the milky way, and the rest of the universe visible off in that direction)- very simply- not empty space.

While the planet may be seen to orbit its own star, that star would not hold central importance as it did with us. To us; the Sun and the Moon were the only two things of note in our night sky. For them, though, there was this angry red (or blue, if #1) thing of much larger apparent scale visible to think about. and wonder about around campfires for millenia.

See, its not about coming up with an alien mindset, fabricating an alien from scratch- those details are not at all under discussion. Rather- think of a more existential "mind".. as opposed to the physical "Brain" of a living organism. To such Minds; 1 is 1, true is true, circle square triangle are the same between two very different species. Similarly; wanting to thrive, not wanting to be uncomfortable, etc are also the same. There is no alien Mind that "wants to lose a challenge" because it is simply that different from us. .. i hope what I'm trying to put out there makes sense.

The Mind of a Dog can clearly be understood. Maybe not its brain, nor it perceives the world with its differently proportioned senses, nor its thought processes... but we know what it likes, why it dislikes things, etc. They are the SAME with us. Maybe we like getting shampooed in a bath, but we can UNDERSTAND why they do NOT.

So yeah... our Minds (capitol M) are this framework of intellect- and such intellect is universal. Independent of physical and biological basis. Once we all develop Boolean logic in our Minds, we are all talking the same language. [until proven otherwise.. heh]