Am I the only one who thinks the AI is challenging?

[Darth Ender]

The problem is, of course, that it's intended as a shared universe so if, for example, you're in a RES with a group of newbies, chances are that an NPC which spawns to challenge you is going to wipe the floor with a newbie that gets in the way.

I do agree, in principle, though.
Anarchies should scale in just the same way "normal" systems do, perhaps even more dramatically.
There should be anarchy systems which every law-abiding player will deliberately avoid due to the likelihood of hostilities.
If you're a lawless player, you could fight your way in, gain rep' with the controlling faction there and then you get treated with respect and you get a "safe haven" where no sane person would try and attack you.

Would make for interesting gameplay, IMO. Especially in conjunction with a working C&P mechanic.

No, npcs that spawn based on your (initial player in the res) "rank" is handwavium.

That's not what I'm suggesting.

I think npcs should spawn at difficulty levels that correspond to the system and BGS environment. That's it. They should not care about the players who initiates the instance. I find that stupid and cheaty.

EDIT: How they interact with players once they spawn should be determined by the player's reputation / rank / threat level. But the difficulty and type of npc spawning should not be dependent on the player at all.

 

[fruitbat]

I think npcs should spawn at difficulty levels that correspond to the system and BGS environment. That's it. They should not care about the players who initiates the instance. I find that stupid and cheaty.

This.

 

[Stealthie]

No, npcs that spawn based on your (initial player in the res) "rank" is handwavium.

That's not what I'm suggesting.

I think npcs should spawn at difficulty levels that correspond to the system and BGS environment. That's it. They should not care about the players who initiates the instance. I find that stupid and cheaty.

EDIT: How they interact with players once they spawn should be determined by the player's reputation / rank / threat level. But the difficulty and type of npc spawning should not be dependent on the player at all.

Fair comment.

I suppose, if FDev wanted to get all clever about it, they could look at the statistics for players and generate NPCs that reflect those attributes - as a starting point, at least.

 

[tafkabb]

Not really, not with engineers. Although dropping down to a Courier and engineering that for combat instead of my FGS taught me a lot. The Courier will usually be enough to deal with an Elite Anaconda unless it spams SCBs one after the other. I don't have the firepower to get through, sometimes. I never come close to dying though.
I think I preferred the monstrous engineered AI from an update or two ago. They were very, very hard and great fun

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I find the AI to be easy. I'm not a combat oriented pilot, in fact I'm dangerous rated compared to elite rated in exploration, even then I've done the dangerous and elite challenge scenarios and honestly the enemies aren't very good, in fact the challenge is to beat a series of NPC's, not a single or maybe two challenging NPC's. For those who are wondering, the challenge is made with predetermined vanilla ships so there's no lodaout customization.

 

[Red Anders]

i still dont understand this challnge rubbish. games arent meant to be challenging but fun. challenge is for military exercises and exams and when you get caught doing something illegal, not for video games. you want challenge, join the army or take up mountain climbing while naked and without ropes. it will be a challenge to survive and then you will be challenged for indecency in public if you make it down alive.

The reason you don't understand it is that you seem to see 'challenge' and 'fun' as being two separate and possibly completely opposite things.

I can only speak for myself but when playing a game, confronting and overcoming a challenge is fun. A 'challenge' doesn't automatically imply something unpleasant that would negatively impact on enjoyment, merely an experience that requires you to use your intelligence and/or skills to overcome a problem. The opposite of challenge in a game for me is usually boredom.

As an example, do you remember when the npcs used to do the 'kebab of death' move where they would just stop dead and rotate on the spot as you melted their powerplants? The combat aspect of the game was about as exciting to me as one of those mobile phone games where you just tap the screen repeatedly to see flashing icons and hear success sounds back then, it was literally just treasure farming with the only interest coming from trying to predict how long I could stand doing it before I wanted to run out of the house screaming.

I do accept that some people don't want anything to be difficult in a game at all and don't find difficulty to be a positive motivator, it takes all sorts. It's just not for me.

 

[Kira Mikamy]

AI on Elite Dangerous is easy as hell. bored as hell for an "endgamer". need a revamp

 

[Ziljan]

I think npcs should spawn at difficulty levels that correspond to the system and BGS environment. That's it. They should not care about the players who initiates the instance. I find that stupid and cheaty.

EDIT: How they interact with players once they spawn should be determined by the player's reputation / rank / threat level. But the difficulty and type of npc spawning should not be dependent on the player at all.

Agree 100%

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

No, npcs that spawn based on your (initial player in the res) "rank" is handwavium.

That's not what I'm suggesting.

I think npcs should spawn at difficulty levels that correspond to the system and BGS environment. That's it. They should not care about the players who initiates the instance. I find that stupid and cheaty.

EDIT: How they interact with players once they spawn should be determined by the player's reputation / rank / threat level. But the difficulty and type of npc spawning should not be dependent on the player at all.

Ye, that could leave me at least a choice not to be matched against pimpshipped AI.

 

[Mostly Hamless]

The AI cheats, but I don't find it challenging.

 

[Speedy O]

I think npcs should spawn at difficulty levels that correspond to the system and BGS environment. That's it. They should not care about the players who initiates the instance. I find that stupid and cheaty.

EDIT: How they interact with players once they spawn should be determined by the player's reputation / rank / threat level. But the difficulty and type of npc spawning should not be dependent on the player at all.

Agree 100%... repped.

Who do I need to make love to to make this happen?

 

[the100thmonkey]

Your solution is self nerfing, where as Ddraigs is much better as it caters to everyone without people having to gimp themselves.

Another way to look at it is that I maintain the challenge and keep improving as a pilot through that.

Newbie pilots start with gimballed weapons for a reason. Someone is self-nerfing, but I don't think it's me.

 

[mistohise]

The AI skill and the capability of the AI ships increases along with your combat rank, and the type of ship you are flying.

Your combat rank and the type of ship that you fly, are not necessarily an indication of how good you are at destroying AI ships. Combat rank increases when you blow stuff up, regardless of how "well" you did it.

So, depending on how you get to higher ranks, combat could well be challenging.

Equally, there will always be a set of people who will never find the AI challenging, regardless.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

I love the combat.
last I checked 18 000 kills and counting

but it depends mostly on what you are flying, and how that is setup.

Getting interdicted in your multi-purpose python, setup for long hauling rather than battle, by say an elite FDL or gunship (being dual elite, that's the only thing I get interdicted by).
And in that instance if I dont have at least one SCB and sink on board, I'm bailing, or better yet just beat the interdiction.

On my corvette however I use fixed class 4 beams with efficient 5 and thermal vent, and gimballed mc's with rapid fire and incendiary except for one with high mag and corrosive.
It just shreds anything full stop.

Also the cobra isn't all that brilliant at combat, on my second account I invested in a viper as a second ship to get my battle on, the hardpoint placements on the cobra are little wide and odd, so the same guns on a viper mk3 gets better effect, also the viper mk3 is much cheaper to build and especially to loose when you do get cocky and start in on that big juice target.

And the 'difficulty' varies a bit between what and where you meet them.
Npc's that interdict you to me at least seem to be turned up to 11, res sites they are mostly at a 5 or less, cz's maybe a 7, but there are a lot of them, and they are better armoured, comp nav beacons they are at around a 8 or 9, but not all that armoured.
Regular nav beacons, well those I look at sideways and they tend to blow up.

 

[tiddymun]

I have a T9 for trading équipes with 6A shields and 3 shield boosters. Got interdicted by an NPC python and he killed me with almost 6M in cargo. So I agree NPCs can be challenging for non combat builds and I am over all satisfied with their current state.

I Fly a T9. 7D thrusters (DD3), 5A shields, 4 boosters (370 shield, 30/30/50 resistance). 5 Seeker missiles (2 small ones are high capacity and overload, plus 3 rapid fire on the medium slots, one with drag - all G1 or G2 upgrades). I took out an elite anaconda NPC with SLF yesterday, and the cops only arrived after the show. How? boost - FAOFF turn, line up enemy and hit that goddam fire button till they die (keeping the enemy within the target lock).... I use keys for the FAOFF - trackpad is terrible for that. I am not skilled...

If you really can't do FAOff, boost turn with 4 pips to eng initially to get enemy in front of you, then go 420 on pips with full reverse thrust, and use lateral thrusters as well as pitch/roll/yaw to keep em in front. Seekers use no distributer draw, so don't need any pips in wep.

try it - even with completely stock T9 the above works... when you get used to is, FGS/condas are OK to take on, but before you are used to it, just leave them (SLFs are a pain).

 

[HBK]

Resistance shield boosters aren't exactly stock.

They're, like, the best way by far to improve your actual shield durability.

 

[tiddymun]

yes thats true. I used the above method on fully stock T9 before I got engineering though (actually IIRC I had 3 boosters and a chaff at that point). Would probably have run from an anaconda with SLF at that point though.

This is on second account - only had the account 3 weeks, so not much engineering support for most of that time.

 

[who?]

I've a lightweight build Python (had D-rated shields until recently, 1 shield booster, no point defence or ECM, no SCBs) and for me combat is nice and challenging. Pythons aren't very agile with low-engine-pips so often dogfights end up going toe to toe and seeing whose shield drop first.

 

[GeneralIdea1964]

I actually find AI is just at a good level. I can fight against some and have to run from others.
I do find you get harder opponents if you have a lot of valuable cargo, bigger ship and/or any engineer enhanced stuff.
I'm not the best pilot in a fight, but I can fly well enough to pick my fights(usually ).
So, yes AI is a challenge.
I think AI needs to be harder in RES and CZs maybe, but if your looking for a fight, that's where to go.

 

[HBK]

yes thats true. I used the above method on fully stock T9 before I got engineering though (actually IIRC I had 3 boosters and a chaff at that point). Would probably have run from an anaconda with SLF at that point though.

This is on second account - only had the account 3 weeks, so not much engineering support for most of that time.

Yea my bad I read your post a bit too quickly. Still, as you said, without RNGineering, you'd have to be careful with that setup (T9 missile boat). And even upgraded, you could fry a Conda but I'm pretty sure you'd have a very hard time handling a second one.

It all boils down to the same thing, a good pilot in a good ship is almost unkillable (by AI). And I don't see how it could be otherwise. If you'd be in a constant threat in a say RNGineered Conda, think of how noobwinders pilots would handle that level of bullying.